College Football Star Michael Sam Says He Is Gay; May Become First Publicly G...

[PP2]

Sir, You have no right to say how my family feels about our homosexual relatives, do you now.

If we are honest we maintain we wish they all straight because of issue like this forum as example. You can be dishonest if you want. I will ridicule you about being dishonest if you feel we are not entitled to an opinion.

DW Toys

He has every right to speak out about your family feels as you have every right to speak out about your opinion of homosexuality.

 

[Patsrock]

Sir, You have no right to say how my family feels about our homosexual relatives, do you now.

If we are honest we maintain we wish they all straight because of issue like this forum as example. You can be dishonest if you want. I will ridicule you about being dishonest if you feel we are not entitled to an opinion.

DW Toys

I didn't say you have no right to feel that way. I said you should be ridiculed fr thinking geing gay is a family tragedy.

Marathon Bombing,9/11, plane crashes. Early deaths those are tragedy's. Being gay is not a tragedy.

I am being honest I don't care when my son gets older if he is gay. I am want him to be happy and successful in his life. Whether that is being in love with a man/woman or he becomes transgender. I will love him UNCONDITIONALLY without a statement like I love him but I wish he was straight.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes sir. Family or not. It is my cup of tea. I suppose it is how your religion was taught and it was none of my business. I was taught to love all men, but not that I had to agree with their way of life, and those who sin like you and me and Sam have to answer to just one guy when that time comes.

Actually it is forbidden in the religion I was raised in, but I have a brain, and live a life.

He can sit down right next to me in Church and I am not moving, but MY opinion is I am not one to approve of his lifestyle.

Where do you get the idea that you have a right to approve or disapprove of his lifestyle?

I have about 20 posts that say I need to change my beliefs because I do not believe what they do so therefor I am a bigot.

You are a bigot because you are intolerant of an entire class of people.

And No way I ever said I was better than anybody.

Of course you did, because you are saying your idea of how they should live their life is better than their own. You called a person being gay a tragedy.

That answer it for you Andy?

You answered it for me a long time ago. I am just shocked that anyone in this day and age can be so ignorant. Especially when you have gay family members. I'm not sure how you deal with thinking they are less than you because they were born to feel that way.

And yes, gay family members or not I am not a fan of homosexuality.

Seriously? A fan of homosexuality?
The point here is it is their life to live, and they shouldn't have to live it with your prejudice dragging them down. Do you really think it is healthy for your gay family members to have to feel there is something wrong with them around you and that they should be embarassed about who they are and how they feel?

You used the word reprehensible. Some might say so.
DW Toys

You don't have to want to be gay to support the rights of someone who is.
I suggest you put some thought into how your actions make those gay family members feel. I can tell you that sort of thought is what made me come to grips with being tolerant, understanding and knowing they are just people and its not my place to care about who they are attracted to, or judge, belittle or make them feel uncomfortable because of it.

 

[DW Toys]

Well, I think that what hasn't helped you today is your inaccurate representation of christian teaching.

I think it's important to mention that all of God's children are loved by God and redeemed by the death of Jesus....even those with same sex attractions.

That being said, homosexual acts are still contrary to christian teaching as well as Natural law and as a christian in this time and especially in "progressive" New England any challenge to the Progressive faith is going to be met by aggressive and hostile reactions.

As Chrisitians, we are called to proclaim and live the truth regardless of the reaction we get from the world.
My suggestion would be to stand for the truth but the entire truth: that homosexual acts are contrary to God's plan for his people but that all those who may have same sex attractions are still loved by God, redeemed by that love, and through love are called to Christian perfection.

Good post but siding with anything I say today is not in your best interest. I guess I got a reaction to a mundane statement. Sam might be the best Christian in the world. I do not have to agree with his sin. As he does not have to agree with my many thousands.

Watch this:
"Osama Bin Laden can win as a Democrat or Liberal in this state. Look at Warren"

Now watch the fun begin.

DW Toys

 

[RI Patriots fan]

I find it interesting that those intolerant of homosexuality always seem to gravitate to religion and to the bible, when they get backed into a corner.

Do you realize, as far as the new testament, Jesus never spoke about homosexuality, only Paul did, and even then, the word he used, arsenokoitēs, means something completely different when you understand that the bible he and others used was in fact, the Septuagint, which is the Greek translation of the Hebrew Old Testament? In that context, arsenokoitēs means pederasty, which we today identify as pedophilia.

First off, I don't feel "backed into a corner" in any way, shape, or form. I would generally engage this argument from Natural Law rather than religion since it is self evident to those who are willing to see the truth. I went "religion" because someone else brought it up.


Actually, it is very clear from the scriptures that there are many things Jesus said and did that weren't written down.


"But there are also many other things which Jesus did which, if they were written every one, the world itself. I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written" - John 21:25

John 21:25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every - Online Bible Study Tools


Jesus could have very well mentioned it and it was never written down. That being said, I would guess that he wouldn't have mentioned it because his ministry was generally limited to the Jewish people and homosexual acts were clearly considered immoral by the Jewish people at that time. It would have been like convincing Patriots fans that they should cheer for the Patriots.

Paul and others (like Jude) address it in the New Testament because they are confronted with it in the pagan world. And yes, it is often confronted as pederasty because in most cases thats what they encountered and also because the idea of an equal same sex "relationship" between two adults was foreign to people of that time. These "relationships" during that time were often based upon dominance and "rank".

If you look at the oral tradtion of the church and you take it into account when reading both the New and Old Testatment, there is no doubt that the Church has consistently taught that homosexual acts are immoral.


Early Teachings on Homosexuality | Catholic Answers

 

[Ring 6]

Sir, You have no right to say how my family feels about our homosexual relatives, do you now.

If we are honest we maintain we wish they all straight because of issue like this forum as example. You can be dishonest if you want. I will ridicule you about being dishonest if you feel we are not entitled to an opinion.

DW Toys

An issue like this forum?
Every person except you is saying it means nothing and they should be treated just like everyone else.
You don't want them to be gay because you don't want them subjected to people like you who hate them because of it.

 

[RI Patriots fan]

Good post but siding with anything I say today is not in your best interest. I guess I got a reaction to a mundane statement. Sam might be the best Christian in the world. I do not have to agree with his sin. As he does not have to agree with my many thousands.

Watch this:
"Osama Bin Laden can win as a Democrat or Liberal in this state. Look at Warren"

Now watch the fun begin.

DW Toys

I wasn't siding with you. I was merely pointing out where I thought you were right and where I thought you were wrong.

As for Sam's sin.....having same sex desires isn't a sin. Now, unless you know all of his actions (which I think you might not know) how can you know he has sinned at all? Maybe he has never acted on his desires....neither of us know for sure.

So maybe the best course of action is to wish Sam well and to encourage him to live a Godly life and if or when he fails, encourage him to seek God's forgiveness just as you and I have done.

 

[Ring 6]

I wasn't siding with you. I was merely pointing out where I thought you were right and where I thought you were wrong.

As for Sam's sin.....having same sex desires isn't a sin. Now, unless you know all of his actions (which I think you might not know) how can you know he has sinned at all? Maybe he has never acted on his desires....neither of us know for sure.

So maybe the best course of action is to wish Sam well and to encourage him to live a Godly life and if or when he fails, encourage him to seek God's forgiveness just as you and I have done.

So I will ask again.
If you are saying Sam is sinning by engaging in homosexual sex, does that mean you do not engage in heterosexual sex except for the purpose of procreation? That is the Roman Catholic church's position, is it not?

 

[DW Toys]

Actually it is forbidden in the religion I was raised in, but I have a brain, and live a life.



Where do you get the idea that you have a right to approve or disapprove of his lifestyle?


You are a bigot because you are intolerant of an entire class of people.


Of course you did, because you are saying your idea of how they should live their life is better than their own. You called a person being gay a tragedy.


You answered it for me a long time ago. I am just shocked that anyone in this day and age can be so ignorant. Especially when you have gay family members. I'm not sure how you deal with thinking they are less than you because they were born to feel that way.


Seriously? A fan of homosexuality?
The point here is it is their life to live, and they shouldn't have to live it with your prejudice dragging them down. Do you really think it is healthy for your gay family members to have to feel there is something wrong with them around you and that they should be embarassed about who they are and how they feel?




You don't have to want to be gay to support the rights of someone who is.
I suggest you put some thought into how your actions make those gay family members feel. I can tell you that sort of thought is what made me come to grips with being tolerant, understanding and knowing they are just people and its not my place to care about who they are attracted to, or judge, belittle or make them feel uncomfortable because of it.

I don't go up to family and sat, "Dude, wish you were straight." I am not telling them to change their lifestyle Andy. You have no right to say how I have interacted with them. You do not know.

I am glad your brain has transcended your raised religious beliefs, I am glad you are tolerant of those who do not agree with your brain's wanderings.

The only guy who will judge anyone gay or not but we are all sinners is not amongst us.

I stand on my tragedy opinion, and it is just my opinion.

I have not been to any Gay Bashing meetings lately,

So your point is....don't judge someone for their beliefs?
DW Toys

 

[Bhelmet]

I've read enough - time to put thread on the ignore list - reading this stuff is like having a "conversation" with Deus.

 

[DW Toys]

I wasn't siding with you. I was merely pointing out where I thought you were right and where I thought you were wrong.

As for Sam's sin.....having same sex desires isn't a sin. Now, unless you know all of his actions (which I think you might not know) how can you know he has sinned at all? Maybe he has never acted on his desires....neither of us know for sure.

So maybe the best course of action is to wish Sam well and to encourage him to live a Godly life and if or when he fails, encourage him to seek God's forgiveness just as you and I have done.

Good post.
DW Toys

 

[primetime]

There are evolutionary biology theories on why homosexuality is actually a desirable, selected trait in families. For example, the so-called "gay uncle" hypothesis says that people who themselves do not have children may indirectly increase the prevalence of their family's genes in future generations by increasing the fitness of the offspring of their closest relatives because it's an additional hand to help raise and provide resources for helping those offspring survive to breeding age.

I'm not certain you can appeal to 'Natural Law' here, unless 'Natural Law' is just a euphemism for bigotry.

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

First off, I don't feel "backed into a corner" in any way, shape, or form. I would generally engage this argument from Natural Law rather than religion since it is self evident to those who are willing to see the truth.

I'm intrigued by this Natural Law you speak of. Does this involve more than slamming two plugs together and going 'See they don't fit!!!'? Or does it revolve around the inability of two people of the same sex to create life? Where do infertile people fit into that? Marriage?

 

[DW Toys]

So I will ask again.
If you are saying Sam is sinning by engaging in homosexual sex, does that mean you do not engage in heterosexual sex except for the purpose of procreation? That is the Roman Catholic church's position, is it not?

Well I am not an R.C. so that let's me out of this one. But if we are talking one man sexually and engaging sex upon another, that is not only a trait that many religions, not just Christianity, adhere to as incorrect behavior, but in the natural world order of the majority of species as well.

The Christian Bible tells us marriage and love is a gift HE has given us, and between a man and a women. Sex is a gift for more than procreation in my religion, but man and woman is key.

I have said for the 100th time I am not judging the kid. Just his lifestyle choice as in my opinion, not what the Bible had in mind. That is what my brain says.

Andy you are not changing me nor I you. This has already gone further than it needs to.
DW Toys

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Sir, You have no right to say how my family feels about our homosexual relatives, do you now.

If we are honest we maintain we wish they all straight because of issue like this forum as example. You can be dishonest if you want. I will ridicule you about being dishonest if you feel we are not entitled to an opinion.

DW Toys

DW you called it a family tragedy for Sam's family. If others have no right to say how your family feels, which they don't, then by your own logic you have no right to tell the Sam family how they feel.

He was a team leader and the best player on a defense that helped lead their team to the best record they've had in 50 years. He was voted team MVP. He was the first member of his family to ATTEND, let alone graduate from college (which he did, in December). He'll likely make a few million dollars in his career before he turns thirty.

He is the 7th of 8 children, three of whom are already dead and 2 of whom are in prison. His family is certainly extremely proud of him. He is quoted as saying not one of his family members had a problem when he told them. They shouldn't---he is the jewel of their family. His story is not one of tragedy.

 

[50-yard-line]

There are gay Episcopal Pastors. Are you saying Episcopalians aren't real Christians?

By the way, no one has ever given me a good explanation for the Bible's most cited passage against homosexuality. In the story of Lot, he is seemingly the only upstanding man in the city. His is offended by the rioting mob outside his door who want to savage two angel men because he believes homosexuality is an abomination. To assuage the horny rioting mob, he solves the problem (and prevents homosexuality) by tossing out his two virgin daughters so the men outside can gangrape them! Oh how horrible is homosexuality!! An abomination!

Water off a duck, but good try. You won't get him wet with reason.

It's like telling a "Christian" (I use quotes!) that when they are celebrating Jericho, they are cheering a monster. We don't know what happened at Jericho, but the Bible tells us that Joshua went in and slaughtered every man, woman, child, and animal in the place - and that's okay, because, you know, sensibilities were different then. The Bible tells us this murderer was a HERO.

I know a lot of "Christian" men who hate homosexuality right up until they spin their internet to a porn movie between two hot women...

Meh, whatever...

I also love the annual Christmas victimhood...yeah, the most oppressed people in the world, American Christians...

And the "libs" remarks, blissfully unaware that the Holy Savior of all things Christian was, by definition, one of the most PROGRESSIVE and liberal men in the entire freaking universe (and also one who had a lot more to say about greed than gay, eh?). Yep, Jesus was certainly a lib.

"Pick and choose Christians"? Blah.

 

[RI Patriots fan]

So I will ask again.
If you are saying Sam is sinning by engaging in homosexual sex, does that mean you do not engage in heterosexual sex except for the purpose of procreation? That is the Roman Catholic church's position, is it not?

Im saying that it is church teaching (and has always been church teaching) that homosexual acts are always immoral regardless of who commits them....straight (for experimentation/pleasure) bi-sexual, homosexual orientation.

The church teaches that sex acts need to be "open" to procreation and performed in the context of marriage.

If I was a Patriot player in the lockerroom, I would have no hesitation in having Sam as my teammate. In fact, I would probably attempt to openly befriend him in the hopes that it might curtail any signs of unjust discrimination or acts of hatred.

 

[PP2]

First off, I don't feel "backed into a corner" in any way, shape, or form. I would generally engage this argument from Natural Law rather than religion since it is self evident to those who are willing to see the truth. I went "religion" because someone else brought it up.

Your statement:

My suggestion would be to stand for the truth but the entire truth: that homosexual acts are contrary to God's plan for his people but that all those who may have same sex attractions are still loved by God, redeemed by that love, and through love are called to Christian perfection.

was unprompted. In other words you didn't turn religion because "someone else brought it up."

 

[Snake Eyes]

There are evolutionary biology theories on why homosexuality is actually a desirable, selected trait in families. For example, the so-called "gay uncle" hypothesis says that people who themselves do not have children may indirectly increase the prevalence of their family's genes in future generations by increasing the fitness of the offspring of their closest relatives because it's an additional hand to help raise and provide resources for helping those offspring survive to breeding age.

I'm not certain you can appeal to 'Natural Law' here, unless 'Natural Law' is just a euphemism for bigotry.

Couldn’t one also argue the reverse? That since the gay uncle doesn’t have kids there’s less of a support network. I’ve helped my cousins in the past and they’ve also helped me.

 

[Ivan]

Im saying that it is church teaching (and has always been church teaching) that homosexual acts are always immoral regardless of who commits them....straight (for experimentation/pleasure) bi-sexual, homosexual orientation.

The church teaches that sex acts need to be "open" to procreation and performed in the context of marriage.

If I was a Patriot player in the lockerroom, I would have no hesitation in having Sam as my teammate. In fact, I would probably attempt to openly befriend him in the hopes that it might curtail any signs of unjust discrimination or acts of hatred.

Once again, ahem.



The Catholic church has been teaching children about homosexuality for years.




For some reason the kids just keep believing Father Tim when he tells them he is the body of Christ........................