The Senior Bowl Thread

[Snake Eyes]

I love Zack Martin. But I'm a little torn. IMO he's Logan Mankins part 2. I think Martin could excel at LG and fill in at LT in a pinch. But we already have Logan Mankins part 1.

I'm not sure Martin would work well at RG and I wouldn't want him at either tackle spot full time. I don't think he quite has the feet of Solder or Vollmer or the power of Cannon (and I have no idea if he can play C worth a damn). Personally I would like to get rid of Mankins. For the money he makes he sure seems to find the worst times to have a brainfart. But I'm sure plenty would vehemently disagree with me about Mankins.

Then there's the whole thing about how I don't like to draft interior OL in the 1st, and I doubt Martin would make it to our late 2nd.

I wonder what we could fetch by trading Mankins.

 

[JerseyShore99]

Heard one of my favorite prospects, Arthur Lynch, is catching everything, needs to work on his blocking footwork however. Also saw Matthews from Vandy makes exceptional catches look easy, he should interest Baltimore quite a bit

 

[Kontradiction]

Heard one of my favorite prospects, Arthur Lynch, is catching everything, needs to work on his blocking footwork however. Also saw Matthews from Vandy makes exceptional catches look easy, he should interest Baltimore quite a bit

Matthews to Baltimore would go a long way to fix the woes they were experiencing in the passing game this season.

 

[captain stone]

I wonder what we could fetch by trading Mankins.

I also think Mankins is over-paid, but with a new Center (I hope) & RG if Connolly
does not accept a pay cut, getting rid of Mankins would I feel be too much turnover
on our OL too soon.

 

[mayoclinic]

I also think Mankins is over-paid, but with a new Center (I hope) & RG if Connolly
does not accept a pay cut, getting rid of Mankins would I feel be too much turnover
on our OL too soon.

Mankins will be 32 in March. He has base salaries of $6.25M this year and $6.75M in 2015 and 2016. Realistically, who is going to want to trade anything to take on those salaries? Trading him this year saves only $2M in cap space, and getting a decent replacement with that savings isn't likely.

Mankins provides terrific toughness and leadership. He's a great Pats player in all respects except when it came to money and he sold out, and threw the organization under the bus. I don't think he's owed any loyalty by any means, but realistically the positives of keeping him this year far outweigh the negatives.

But 2015? $7M cap savings with $4M dead money? He's probably gone. If not then, in 2016 when he'll be 35 and there is no dead money for cutting him, and another $7M savings.

That's part of why I think it's not completely unrealistic that the Pats go after someone like Alex Mack or Jon Asamoah. Keep their 2014 cap hit reasonably low, and then by the time the real money hits Mankins' cap hit will be off the boards. A lot depends on the situation with Solder and Cannon though, and how the team sees them moving forward.

 

[mayoclinic]

Scott Wright on the Wenesday South practice:

Interior Blocking

Every year there are players who are much more highly-thought of in scouting circles than most realize and Nevada OG Joel Bitonio is a perfect example. A college offensive tackle who will most likely kick inside to offensive guard at the next level, Bitonio has been garnering a lot of positive commentary for his efforts both on and off the field all week long. One of the highlights of the day came when Bitonio put Tennessee DT Daniel McCullers on the ground despite giving up more than forty pounds in the matchup. At this point it may be an upset if Bitonio escapes the Top 100. Meanwhile Mississippi St. OG Gabe Jackson has impressed with his sheer size, brute strength and physical style. Jackson won’t be an ideal fit for every scheme but will surely be a target of teams that utilize a power, run based attack. Jackson is also benefiting to a degree from the struggles that Baylor OG Cyril Richardson has experienced at times this week. However, it should be noted that Jackson hasn’t had to face the force of nature known as Aaron Donald like poor Mr. Richardson either.


McGill + Small School CB's

Big cornerbacks have been a major storyline this week and the South certainly has their fair share. Utah CB Keith McGill may be the most fascinating. After battling injuries early in his college career McGill enjoyed a breakout senior campaign and shot up draft boards. In fact, McGill was already considered to be a strong Day 2 possibility heading into the week. McGill has had some ups and downs and there is still some question as to how smoothly he flips his hips and transitions but it’s hard not to become enamored with that truly special combination of size and speed. McGill is exactly the type of rangy cover guy that the league is looking for these days, checking in at 6-3 and 214 pounds with ridiculously long 33-inch arms, and will likely be a hot commodity somewhere in round two or three.

Solid But Unspectacular

Coming into the week Vanderbilt WR Jordan Matthews was widely considered to be the top prospect at his position in the game with an outside shot at sneaking into the back end of round one. Matthews hasn’t been awful by any stretch of the imagination but he hasn’t had the type of big week that most were expecting either. The best way to describe Matthews’ performance might be solid but unspectacular. With that said it’s not like Matthews has done anything to damage his stock either. Even though Matthews hasn’t been a dynamic playmaker in practice he's still caught the attention of evaluators with his dogged work ethic. Not only did Matthews specifically request tape on the cornerbacks that he would be facing in Mobile before arriving but he has also been seen putting in extra work both before and after the practices. It’s not often that you see such a professional approach from a young player. With impeccable intangibles like that it should come as no surprise to hear Matthews' cousin is the great Jerry Rice, whose dedication to his craft is legendary.

Welcome to the Big Leagues

It’s been a tough go for North Dakota St. OT Billy Turner, who is considered to be one of the premier small school prospects in this class. Turner is a very good athlete with a large frame and growth potential but needs to get stronger and clean up his technique. The biggest issue facing Turner is leverage as he has a tendency to bend at the waist and play tall but there are some footwork problems that must be fixed as well. After manning the blindside in college Turner has been seeing action at both right tackle and offensive guard this week and appears to be better suited for the interior. Could Turner now get bypassed by Dakota Dozier of Furman, a similar type of player who is coming off a very strong showing at the East / West Shrine Game?

Wednesday's South Team Senior Bowl Practice Report, NFL Draft - DraftCountdown.com

 

[mayoclinic]

I think that there are 5-7 LBs or undersized DEs with a lot of versatility who will compete intensely for draft position over the next 3 months:

- Kyle Van Noy, BYU. 6' 3 1/4" 244#.
- Marcus Smith, Arkansas. 6' 3 1/2" 258#.
- Dee Ford, Auburn. 6' 2 1/8" 243#.
- Jeremiah Attoachu, Georgia Tech. 6' 3 1/4" 252#.
- Christian Jones, Florida St. 6' 3 3/8" 234#.
- Demarcus Lawrence, Boise St. 6' 3" 245#.
- Carl Bradford, Arizona St. 6'1" 241#.

All of these guys have been moved all over their respective defenses, used in coverage, and used as pass rushers.

Rob Rang suggests that Jeremiah Attoachu has opened eyes this week, along with Kyle Van Noy:

A handful of under-the-radar defenders helped their cause during this morning's practice. It was a pair of well-known linebackers -- Georgia Tech's Jeremiah Attaochu and BYU's Kyle Van Noy -- who stood out this afternoon.

Attaochu starred as a pass rusher with the Yellow Jackets, lining up as a stand-up outside linebacker and occasionally attacking the edge as a defensive end. In Mobile, however, the Jaguars' coaches have asked him to play virtually all over the field, including at inside linebacker, outside linebacker and rush from a three-point stance. Not surprisingly, Attaochu showed his greatest comfort when rushing the quarterback, demonstrating burst, agility and a powerful slap-and-sidestep to get past would-be blockers.

Asked to play off the line of scrimmage as a traditional strongside linebacker in the Jaguars' 4-3 alignment, however, Attaochu also has shown improved recognition and gap integrity against the run, as well as patience when dropping back into coverage. On Monday, Attaochu looked like a fish out of water dropping back. Today, when running backs came into his zone, Attaochu ran with them, closing as the ball arrived and showing quick hands to rip at the ball as it arrived. Scouts knew the 6-foot-3, 253-pound Attoachu was athletic; this week he's also shown football intelligence and work ethic.

Van Noy is a much more polished defender than Attaochu. He could have entered last year's draft and earned a top-64 selection. Some questioned his decision to return. In doing so, however, he's proven that his playmaking ways are a reflection of his terrific instincts and efficient athleticism rather than a reflection on the Cougars' level of competition.

The 6-foot-3, 244-pound Van Noy doesn't wow you with his frame or his straight-line speed but he ranks among the country's most pro-ready defenders because he does the little things so well. Van Noy shows excellent play recognition, takes on blockers with the correct shoulder (allowing him to slide off would-be blockers and into ball-carriers easily) and is equally effective slipping into coverage or sliding past offensive linemen on his way towards a tackle behind the line of scrimmage. He's subtle rather than physical, which draws complaints from some scouts but is deadly effective.

2014 Senior Bowl: OLBs Attaochu, Van Noy step up to pressure - CBSSports.com

Again, I'll be really interested to see the Combine numbers for some of these guys. This is a case where the numbers may actually mean something. The other part - which I think has been just as important for Jamie Collins as his athleticism - will be assessing their intelligence, work ethic, and temperament in making a switch.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Mankins will be 32 in March. He has base salaries of $6.25M this year and $6.75M in 2015 and 2016. Realistically, who is going to want to trade anything to take on those salaries? Trading him this year saves only $2M in cap space, and getting a decent replacement with that savings isn't likely.

Mankins provides terrific toughness and leadership. He's a great Pats player in all respects except when it came to money and he sold out, and threw the organization under the bus. I don't think he's owed any loyalty by any means, but realistically the positives of keeping him this year far outweigh the negatives.

But 2015? $7M cap savings with $4M dead money? He's probably gone. If not then, in 2016 when he'll be 35 and there is no dead money for cutting him, and another $7M savings.

That's part of why I think it's not completely unrealistic that the Pats go after someone like Alex Mack or Jon Asamoah. Keep their 2014 cap hit reasonably low, and then by the time the real money hits Mankins' cap hit will be off the boards. A lot depends on the situation with Solder and Cannon though, and how the team sees them moving forward.

How much do you think it would take to sign Asamoah?

 

[mayoclinic]

How much do you think it would take to sign Asamoah?

I'm not sure, but here are some comparisons:

- Marshall Yanda signed a 5 year / $32.5M contract ($10M signing bonus) in 2011; he restructured the deal in 2012. First year cap hit: $4M.
- Josh Sitton signed a 6 year / $34.95M contract ($8.9M guaranteed, $6M signing bonus) in 2011. First year cap hit: $4.85M.
- Louis Vazquez signed a 4 year / $23.5M contract ($13M guaranteed, $5M signing bonus) in 2013. First year cap hit: $3.25M.

I think those are reasonable high (Yanda, Sitton) and low (Vazquez) comparisons for Asamoah. Ben Grubbs' contract (5 years / $36M, $10M signing bonus, $15.9M guaranteed) seems too high. Even Andy Levitre, who signed a 6 year $46.8M contract with Tennessee in 2013 only had a $4.6M cap hit last year.

Based on those numbers I would think something like a 5 year / $30M contract with about $10M guaranteed and a $4M initial cap hit would be reasonable, but it's just a guess. Who knows how the market will act?

As for Alex Mack and the center position, Eric Wood and Max Unger, both of whom were taken after Mack in the 2009 draft, were re-signed by their own teams. They are currently the #3 and #4 paid centers. Wood signed a 5 year $27.7M extension with a $9M signing bonus last year. Unger signed a 4 year $25M extension in 2012. There is a big gap between them and the top 2 paid centers, Ryan Kalil (6 year / $49M contract with $28M guaranteed, $18M signing bonus) and Nick Mangold (8 year / $57.4M contract with $22M guaranteed). I would think that Mack's value falls somewhere in-between those 2 groups, but again, I don't know what the market will be, or what he is seeking. I'd guess 5 years / $35M with about $15M guaranteed as a start, maybe more, but it's just a guess.

I have no expertise in these contract issues. These are just guesses.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Mankins provides terrific toughness and leadership. He's a great Pats player in all respects except when it came to money and he sold out, and threw the organization under the bus. I don't think he's owed any loyalty by any means, but realistically the positives of keeping him this year far outweigh the negatives.

I usually like how Mankins played but I hate how he got punked in the AFC championship game. What happened to him? Brady had no time to throw. I know Brady made some mistakes too but maybe he got happy feet exactly cos he wasn't confident in his line's ability to protect him that Sunday?

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Heard one of my favorite prospects, Arthur Lynch, is catching everything, needs to work on his blocking footwork however. Also saw Matthews from Vandy makes exceptional catches look easy, he should interest Baltimore quite a bit

I'm a huge fan of Lynch. I think this is a very deep group of tight ends and if the Pats do not end up grabbing one at some point in the draft I'll be disappointed. Lynch is big, can block and catch, and has been productive in the toughest conference in the country. Plus he's from Mass! I'd be excited if he were drafted as a value selection after the bigger name tight ends are gone.

 

[captain stone]

Mankins will be 32 in March. He has base salaries of $6.25M this year and $6.75M in 2015 and 2016. Realistically, who is going to want to trade anything to take on those salaries? Trading him this year saves only $2M in cap space, and getting a decent replacement with that savings isn't likely.

Mankins provides terrific toughness and leadership. He's a great Pats player in all respects except when it came to money and he sold out, and threw the organization under the bus. I don't think he's owed any loyalty by any means, but realistically the positives of keeping him this year far outweigh the negatives.

But 2015? $7M cap savings with $4M dead money? He's probably gone. If not then, in 2016 when he'll be 35 and there is no dead money for cutting him, and another $7M savings.

That's part of why I think it's not completely unrealistic that the Pats go after someone like Alex Mack or Jon Asamoah. Keep their 2014 cap hit reasonably low, and then by the time the real money hits Mankins' cap hit will be off the boards. A lot depends on the situation with Solder and Cannon though, and how the team sees them moving forward.

I agree; Mankins isn't going anywhere in 2014.

 

[everlong]

2014 Senior Bowl: OLBs Attaochu, Van Noy step up to pressure - CBSSports.com

Van Noy probably is moving himself up into the first where I doubt BB would take another LB with the team needs. Mid second would have been nice.

 

[mayoclinic]

2014 Senior Bowl: OLBs Attaochu, Van Noy step up to pressure - CBSSports.com

Van Noy probably is moving himself up into the first where I doubt BB would take another LB with the team needs. Mid second would have been nice.

See post #127 above.

It's way too early to tell where people will end up. But I agree, I doubt BB would use a 1st round pick on a LB.

 

[everlong]

See post #127 above.

It's way too early to tell where people will end up. But I agree, I doubt BB would use a 1st round pick on a LB.

My bad........worst part is I actually scanned and still missed it.

 

[mayoclinic]

My bad........worst part is I actually scanned and still missed it.

It's easy to lose it in all the posts. "Great minds" and all that ...

 

[JerseyShore99]

I'm a huge fan of Lynch. I think this is a very deep group of tight ends and if the Pats do not end up grabbing one at some point in the draft I'll be disappointed. Lynch is big, can block and catch, and has been productive in the toughest conference in the country. Plus he's from Mass! I'd be excited if he were drafted as a value selection after the bigger name tight ends are gone.

You just named every reason why I love him, would love to see either Amaro day 1 or ASJ day 2 and Lynch on late day 2 or early day 3, he'll do great

 

[mayoclinic]

End of the week wrap-up comments from Mike Loyko on the South squad:

Jeremiah Attaochu, OLB, Georgia Tech – Didn’t flash much during Senior Bowl practices this week. Wasn’t used much as a pass rusher in team drills when I watched. He makes his money by rushing the passer and being disruptive off the edge. Didn’t get to see it in practice. I wouldn’t put much stock in it, as these practices aren’t geared toward OLB-types that rush off edge.

Joel Bitino [sic], OT, Nevada – A very impressive prospect. He has been playing LT in practices, but also can play OG in the NFL. Out of all the OL interviews I conducted, he’s one of the guys that stands out. Knows how to use his leverage, get hands on the defender, and control space. Pancaked Daniel McCullers at least once. Understands technique and offensive line schemes.

DeAndre Coleman, DT, California – Coleman had a strong practice on Thursday disrupting passing lanes with his massive length. He tipped two balls and one ended up as an INT. Coleman moves fluidly for such a big guy and has the frame to play as a 3-4 End or 4-3 DT. Coleman is someone I’ve heard scouts talk a bit about in the stands.

Dee Ford, DE/OLB, Auburn – The most explosive edge rusher this week. Gets off the ball with more explosion than the others and is able to dip/bend the edge very well. Seems to keep his arms by his side when bending the corner and can get knocked off balance when OL get hands on. No doubt he’s helped himself this week, starting with the weigh-in where he measured in over 6’2?, exactly what he was listed as on his college website.

Cody Hoffman, WR, BYU – Hoffman actually had a great practice on Thursday. He snatched the ball out of the year and showed very good hands. Even made the tough catches in tight coverage. Very worried about his speed in the NFL, don’t think he can get open. Won’t run fast and is a late round pick at best.

Adrian Hubbard, DE, Alabama – Didn’t see much of him today or yesterday. Day one he stood out for his athletic build and the way he moved in coverage. I thought he could really help himself this week and I just didn’t see him do enough.

Gabe Jackson, OG, Mississippi State – Strong week all-around. Came into the game a bit under the radar, but he leaves as one of the winners. He’s so big and strong, that when he gets hands on with leverage he can control his space. Won the majority of his battles and got scouts buzzing with his massive chest at the weigh-in.

Arthur Lynch, TE, Georgia – Was the star of Thursday practice. Literally caught every ball, including two fully extended one handed ones. I was most impressed with how he set up LBs when running red zone and seam routes. Showed strength to fight off the defender and get position in red zone. Very good day today.

Jordan Matthews, WR, Vanderbilt – Besides one play where Carr and Matthews connected on a back of the endzone fade, Matthews failed to separate down the field and looks like he gets his feet caught in the mud. Very worried about his speed and quickness at the next level. As the underclassmen workout and perform at the combine Matthews will drop.

Daniel McCullers, DT, Tennessee – Rough week for big Dan. He’s not built for this type of setting where he has to go through drills, perform in 1 on 1s, and go after guys like Dee Ford in bag drills. McCullers really struggles to bend at all and can’t do much of anything besides take on blocks and create pile ups.

Keith McGill, CB, Utah – McGill had a great week despite getting bad cramps in his legs for various reasons. He’s a massive corner a 6’3? and is built like a safety. Today he locked down one side of the field and the QBs refused to challenge him. Throughout the week he was tough to beat in coverage because of his size and vastly underrated athleticism. Big, long CB are en vogue right now and Keith McGill will be a hot commodity.

Morgan Moses, OT, Virginia – As Phil Savage called him “The Rock of Gibraltar”. Moses impressed because he is able to mirror defenders and just shut them down when he gets hands on. Was perhaps the toughest OL to beat in one on one drills all week. Stock was pretty high coming into the week and he probably helped himself even more.

Caraun Reid, DT, Princeton – Plays with violence and mean intentions when going through bag drills. Thought he would get better as the week went on and it didn’t happen. Such a smart, well-spoken kid. I know at least two NFL teams are real high on him.

Telvin Smith, Florida State – Really stood out to me today. Extremely fast to cover the flats and was discipline in coverage, not biting on play-fakes. He needs to add at least 12 pounds to his frame, but his speed in coverage will play at the next level.

Bryan Stork, OC, Florida State – Much more consistent than Gabe Ikard throughout the week. Shorter arms, but plays with a wide base and does his best to keep his hips underneath him.

Will Sutton, Arizona State – Really out of shape at the weigh-in. Can’t seem to figure out what weight to play at. Sutton had his moments during practice with his ability to penetrate and blow up plays. Had an interception off a tipped pass today, but I’m having trouble buying into him as an impact NFL prospect.

Billy Turner, OT, North Dakota State – Played Right Tackle throughout the week and was the definition of a roller coaster. Mixed some dominate reps with some where he just got whooped. Technique is very sloppy and it’s clear he’s a guy that needs sometime with a good OL coach developing the basics.

Brent Urban, DT, Virginia – Dropped out of the Senior Bowl with an ankle injury, but impressed everyone with a his linear athletic frame. Didn’t show me much before the injury, but NFL teams seem to love him.

Kyle Van Noy, OLB, BYU – Thoroughly impressed by his overall game this week. Very strong in coverage reps throughout the week. He’s someone the NFL scouts believe can come in and make an impact as a rookie. Doesn’t have anything he does at an elite level. He’s just solid across the board. He’ll be higher on my board now than when the week started.

2014 Senior Bowl: South Practice Notes and Wrap-Up | NEPatriotsDraft.com - 2014 NFL Draft

 

[stelfans]

My binkie Bitonio working his magic.
I want him.

 

[mayoclinic]

My binkie Bitonio working his magic.
I want him.

I'd be very happy to get him. Would probably take our 2nd round pick, though, or at least a high 3rd.

Bitonio or Gabe Jackson with a slight trade back from 62 would be nice.