The Senior Bowl Thread

[manxman2601]

He's linebacker sized. Didn't they get Sherman in the 5th or so?

Not sure where they got all their guys, but they must have done some pretty great drafting. Carroll has pioneered the "huge CB"...I remember him trying to do it here with Tebucky Jones actually. Didn't work with him.

Just seems like every 3rd down is a 5 yard pass play attempt, if it doesn't work, they punt. Can't throw downfield worth a darn. Very sad. Very poor on 3rd down defense too.

I agree with you 100% on the quality of their drafting! but remember! three years ago they drafted Richard Carpenter in the first round and two years ago maybe reached on Bruce Irvin. They have however had two killer drafts in the last two years.

 

[Peachhead]

I liked Telvin Smith, too small to be a linebacker but could be a strong safety, Looked like an excellent tackler goes close to 220 and 6'2' +

The SS I'm drooling over is Deone Buchannon from Washington State. Good sized ( 6' 7/8", #216 and a 78"wingspan at the senior bowl) and productive as hell (114 tackles, 5 ints & 3 forced fumbles as a senior)

He also has a rep as a very hard hitter. Exactly what I want. I've seen him play (not just highlights), but not nearly as much as I would like.

 

[manxman2601]

The SS I'm drooling over is Deone Buchannon from Washington State. Good sized ( 6' 7/8", #216 and a 78"wingspan at the senior bowl) and productive as hell (114 tackles, 5 ints & 3 forced fumbles as a senior)

He also has a rep as a very hard hitter. Exactly what I want. I've seen him play (not just highlights), but not nearly as much as I would like.

He's very good in run support although he tends to over pursue but he's pretty poor in coverage. I wouldn't want him covering a WR. I like him on day three, but not earlier.

 

[Peachhead]

He's very good in run support although he tends to over pursue but he's pretty poor in coverage. I wouldn't want him covering a WR. I like him on day three, but not earlier.

I'll give up a little coverage ability in exchange for run support and to bring back a hard hitting attitude back to the D. (Although you usually don't get 5 ints in one college season being "really poor" in coverage.) FS and CB are more coverage heavy positions. Jarring the ball loose or giving a WR alligator arms is just as effective as a batted pass.

I've seen him projected as high as the 2nd round. I think I could happily take him in the late 2nd. IMO a very good SS would have a huge impact on this team.

PS - RE: "overpursuit", I didn't really see it much, but like I said, I haven't seen him as much as I'd like.

 

[manxman2601]

I'll give up a little coverage ability in exchange for run support and to bring back a hard hitting attitude back to the D. (Although you usually don't get 5 ints in one college season being "really poor" in coverage.) FS and CB are more coverage heavy positions. Jarring the ball loose or giving a WR alligator arms is just as good as a batted pass.

I've seen him projected as high as the 2nd round. I think I could happily take him in the late 2nd.

PS - RE: "overpursuit", I didn't really see it much, but like I said, I haven't seen him as much as I'd like.

I've seen occasions where he steams up to make the hit and can't adjust to a RB jink because he's going too fast. That's coachable however. He looked poor in coverage against Oregon, the game I noticed it the most, and he was getting a poor rep in Senior Bowl practices for his coverage ability. I've been a Bucannon fan a while on here because of his hard hitting and could be a good Adrian Wilson replacement. I just worry that he'll be limited in today's pass happy NFL. You want an every down player in the 2nd round and I don't think he's that.

 

[mayoclinic]

What are your thoughts on Christian Jones from FLorida State?

I love Jones. He has tremendous athleticism and versatility. He can play all 3 LB positions at a very high level. He's only 236#, but he's strong enough against the run that Florida St. played him at DT at times in short yardage situations. I think he is underrated because he played so many different positions and didn't have a chance to refine himself technically at any one - sort of like Jamie Collins. Like Collins, he is fluid in space and adept at coverage. He's explosive enough to be used add a sub rusher, and strong enough to play in 3-4 as well as 4-3 schemes. I'd use him primarily as a MLB or WLB, but move him all over. Right now he's ridiculously undervalued, IMHO.

Comparison: Kiko Alonso. Maybe Sean Lee.

 

[mayoclinic]

I personally work on 240 as the cut off. Bo Ruud was the only LB that BB has drafted that was less than that. I would say though that 250+ seems optimum for BB. With regards to Jones, I don't think he'd be a consideration because of that size except perhaps as a late round pick but this is BB so who knows.

I have to say, the more I watch of Jones, the more I love him. Think Kiko Alonso, with hints of Sean Lee, Navorro Bowman, Bobby Wagner and Lavonte David. He's very strong for a 236# kid, and even played some NT for Florida St. at times, he's explosive as a pass rusher, and he's very fluid in space - he even covered Sammie Watkins fairly well. That's a great combination. His 6'3" frame could easily bulk up to 240-245#.

I think it's a fallacy to suppose that you need 270# LBs to stop the run. San Francisco had the best rushing defense in the NFL last season, with a pair of 240# guys. Core strength has nothing to do with size. That was part of the error that was made with Lavonte David.

It's very rare to find a guy who is so good in coverage, so stout against the run, and so explosive. You may well be right about your cutoff point, but I hope BB takes a closer look at him and learns from his mistakes. The team looked closely at Lavonte David, Bobby Wagner and Kiko Alonso in the past 2 years, so at least they're thinking about it.

 

[patsinthesnow]

I agree with you 100% on the quality of their drafting! but remember! three years ago they drafted Richard Carpenter in the first round and two years ago maybe reached on Bruce Irvin. They have however had two killer drafts in the last two years.

Even the 2013 Seahawks draft looks rough:

1st- Percy Harvin
2nd- Christine Michael (still don't understand this pick)
3rd-Jordan Hill
4th-Chris Harper (off the team)

The Seahawks can afford bad draft picks in the meantime since they hit two grand slams back to back years with Sherman and Wilson. They have the luxury to signing Avril/Bennett when their QB and shutdown CB make less than 2 million combined.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Even the 2013 Seahawks draft looks rough:

1st- Percy Harvin
2nd- Christine Michael (still don't understand this pick)
3rd-Jordan Hill
4th-Chris Harper (off the team)

The Seahawks can afford bad draft picks in the meantime since they hit two grand slams back to back years with Sherman and Wilson. They have the luxury to signing Avril/Bennett when their QB and shutdown CB make less than 2 million combined.

Sherman is eligible to have his contact renegotiated after this season. That should be fun. opcorn:

 

[mayoclinic]

Sherman is eligible to have his contact renegotiated after this season. That should be fun. opcorn:

Earl Thomas is also due for an extension.

 

[State]

I've been wanting to go "all Seahawks" in the secondary for years.

You've got to hand it to Pete Carroll. After drafting Chris Canty out of Kansas State, a very short and slowish, short-armed CB, he had certainly learned his lesson. You look for Darrell Green speed merchants who are also quick, or big, strong tough guys--like the Seahawks.

Welker is going to get decapitated like he nearly did when we played him a season ago.

 

[DaBruinz]

Could he possibly be a Gregory replacement?

Yes, let's put him back at safety when he's been one of the best CBs at the Senior Bowl..

 

[DaBruinz]

I'm not thinking that far ahead. Pick him up late or UDFA, let him heal up and get back into shape. He could be a good backup outside CB with versatility for depth at safety initially. If his motivation, drive and work ethic are what's implied, then he will eventually declare himself.

Colvin isn't going to last past the 4th round IMHO. Not when there is a good chance he could be practicing by mid-season and join a team then.

 

[DaBruinz]

I usually like how Mankins played but I hate how he got punked in the AFC championship game. What happened to him? Brady had no time to throw. I know Brady made some mistakes too but maybe he got happy feet exactly cos he wasn't confident in his line's ability to protect him that Sunday?

Mankins didn't get punked in the AFCCG unless you mean when Knighton Stunted and went through the gap that Wendell left when Wendell shifted to his right instead of watching for the stunt like he's supposed to.

Wendell has been an issue for 2 years and really needs to be replaced with someone who can call the alignments. Something that Wendell didn't seem overly good at.

 

[DaBruinz]

I'm hoping they go offense early in this draft but if they don't I want them to draft more speed, unless it's Wilfork's eventual replacement, i can live with a space eater there, unless they commit to 4-3, then they can go for guys who can get to the QB inside.

You're hoping they go OFFENSE? The defensive line needs replenishment. Wilfork is 32. Kelly is 33. Sealver Siliga was a stop gap at best at NT. Chris Jones was better as a 3-Tech, but didn't command double-teams. The Pats need players there that can produce.

Spikes is likely gone. Fletcher is a UFA as well. So another LB is also a need. Not to mention that, even with Talib back, the Pats need some depth at CB.

 

[DaBruinz]

eh.

This team has so many holes and is so predictable and unable to throw down field that it's downright discouraging. I used to look forward to the draft with the idea that they needed "one or two holes filled", but I think it's larger than that.

Look at Kam Chancellor, huge safety, blazing speed, supposedly the hardest working best character guy they've ever had at Vtech or close to it. He goes in the 5th round! Meanwhile we're drafting JAGs in the 2nd and 3rd. Something is amiss.

5th round.. That should tell you something right there. Every team passed on him 4 times. That's why they say that the draft is not an exact science.

If you were so great at drafting players, you wouldn't be here posting on this board. You'd be working for one of the NFL teams.

 

[DaBruinz]

He's linebacker sized. Didn't they get Sherman in the 5th or so?

Not sure where they got all their guys, but they must have done some pretty great drafting. Carroll has pioneered the "huge CB"...I remember him trying to do it here with Tebucky Jones actually. Didn't work with him.

Just seems like every 3rd down is a 5 yard pass play attempt, if it doesn't work, they punt. Can't throw downfield worth a darn. Very sad. Very poor on 3rd down defense too.

Tebucky Jones was a Booby Grier Pick. Carroll had almost no say in the drafting.

Sherman was a 5th rounder because he had issues coming out of college. Issues that turned teams off to him. Pete Carroll is a player's coach and is willing to put up with the shenanigans we've seen out of Sherman. I liked Sherman coming out of the Senior Bowl and wanted the Pats to draft him. But seeing how he is now, I can understand why they didn't.

 

[DaBruinz]

The SS I'm drooling over is Deone Buchannon from Washington State. Good sized ( 6' 7/8", #216 and a 78"wingspan at the senior bowl) and productive as hell (114 tackles, 5 ints & 3 forced fumbles as a senior)

He also has a rep as a very hard hitter. Exactly what I want. I've seen him play (not just highlights), but not nearly as much as I would like.

The problem is that BB has been moving away from the FS/SS model to a LS/RS model for awhile now. Getting a Safety who is a good tackler, who can cover and who can set up the defense has been a tall order, unfortunately. Harmon, however, looked pretty decent for a rookie.

 

[DaBruinz]

You've got to hand it to Pete Carroll. After drafting Chris Canty out of Kansas State, a very short and slowish, short-armed CB, he had certainly learned his lesson. You look for Darrell Green speed merchants who are also quick, or big, strong tough guys--like the Seahawks.

Welker is going to get decapitated like he nearly did when we played him a season ago.

Except that Carroll didn't draft Canty. Booby Grier did. And it's well known that Grier really didn't listen to Carroll.

 

[kennyb]

5th round.. That should tell you something right there. Every team passed on him 4 times. That's why they say that the draft is not an exact science.

If you were so great at drafting players, you wouldn't be here posting on this board. You'd be working for one of the NFL teams.

Firstly I didn't say I was so good. I said or implied that pats don't get too many late round gems. Nice straw man.

Second no I wouldn't have said job. I'd need to apply and being middle aged with no experience would get me nowhere. Even if I were the best picker ever I'd have no way to prove it. Another straw man.