Praise for Julian Edelman

[ctpatsfan77]

None of Thompkins, Boyce, and Dobson though can replace Edelman's position. Right now, he and Vereen are splitting the roles formerly taken by Welker and Hernandez. I don't see the rookies being able to do that. So the team really does need to find a way to make such a deal work. Probably a first-round RFA tender starts the process off. (A $3MM commitment for 2014 is by no means unreasonable, and guarantees a first-round pick if anybody else tries to take him.)

He's not an RFA. The only tender they can give him is the franchise/transition tender.

 

[ewg_gestalt]

He's not an RFA. The only tender they can give him is the franchise/transition tender.

Do the Pats have the room to make an $8.5M+ offer to Edelman? I don't think that's an option there, unfortunately.

 

[BradyFTW!]

None of Thompkins, Boyce, and Dobson though can replace Edelman's position. Right now, he and Vereen are splitting the roles formerly taken by Welker and Hernandez. I don't see the rookies being able to do that. So the team really does need to find a way to make such a deal work. Probably a first-round RFA tender starts the process off. (A $3MM commitment for 2014 is by no means unreasonable, and guarantees a first-round pick if anybody else tries to take him.)

We suspect that, but we don't really know. Did anyone think that Edelman was a 100 catch, 1,000 yard guy this time last year?

The team will definitely be much better off if Edelman is re-signed. But if it takes unreasonable money to do so, then he will leave, and as much as that sucks it wouldn't be the end of the world.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I'll be shocked if Edelman gets more than $10M guaranteed. This is the first full season that he's played in the NFL; paying him long-term for this year's production seems an awful lot like buying high.

 

[Salva135]

Julian is not going to command an absurd contract on the open market. We can afford him and a slight premium for his excellent season.

 

[voluntarysaftey]

Welker only got two years at $12 Mil so I think giving Edelman the $20 Mil all in or so would be enough to keep him? Who knows. I think Amendola is playing at half speed and will have surgery after the playoffs.

Also curious what the Pats do to get TB some more weapons. Dobson looks like he could develop into a decent #2 and Gronk should be back by week 8 or so. Probably need to draft another TE and try to get a #1 WR (again) ~ maybe pay Decker? Takes him away from Manning and gives Brady another tall guy to throw to.

I am guessing they will draft O Line and LB along with a TE.

It's possible that Welker has actually helped Edelman. One of the knocks on Welker was that he could only do what he did on the Patriots; now he's proved its more than just the system -- so more teams would be willing to take a chance on Edelman than they would've if Welker failed in Denver

 

[Snake Eyes]

Julian is not going to command an absurd contract on the open market. We can afford him and a slight premium for his excellent season.

It still doesn't leave us with a lot of room to work with. Would it make more sense to send Amendola to Cleveland and put that money to Edelperson?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

It still doesn't leave us with a lot of room to work with. Would it make more sense to send Amendola to Cleveland and put that money to Edelperson?

They can't really save anything by trading Amendola next year, although it won't cost them extra millions in dead money, either; they wouldn't owe him his 2014 salary, but they would still have $3.6 in prorated bonus money for 2015-2017 to swallow.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Well consider the fact that the Pats were willing to give 2.5 mill plus a 3rd round pick for Emmanuel sanders.
Steelers match offer sheet for Emmanuel Sanders - SBNation.com

Edelman has outproduced Sanders this year and projects to a 100 catch/1k yard guy.
Emmanuel Sanders NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Not to mention that Julian is PROVEN in our system and he is our top punt returner.

If we don't quite go 5m per, I would not be surprised or displeased by a 4/16 contract to retain Edelman. That would also leave him young enough to sign an even bigger FA contract by the time his extension was up.

 

[Kdo5]

It's possible that Welker has actually helped Edelman. One of the knocks on Welker was that he could only do what he did on the Patriots; now he's proved its more than just the system -- so more teams would be willing to take a chance on Edelman than they would've if Welker failed in Denver

I'm not saying he wouldn't be productive elsewhere but Welker jumped from Brady to Manning. That doesn't mean he completely dispelled the notion that he's a good receiver made great by his QB.

 

[supafly]

Amendola playing the slot in place of Edelman during that period is what happened. Edelman was relegated to limited snaps and lining up outside.

Gronk was there against Denver and Houston when he took off again. The reason he took off again is they started featuring him in the slot again.

One of the primary reasons why Edelman had 100+ catches (or more importantly 150+ targets) this season was due to the fact that Gronkowski and Vereen missed 20 games between the 2 of them, Amendola missed 3-4 more and had a learning curve in his very first year here, along with trying to acclimate 3 separate rookies into our offense who didn't produce much on a normal WR scale. They did fine for rookies, but we should assume that we'll be getting better production than 30-35 catches from them moving forward (not to mention the fact that they all missed time with injuries/inactive statuses too).

Do you really see Julian Edelman getting 100+ catches when Gronk, Vereen, Amendola actually are healthy and produce? Or how about the 3 rookies and any possible free agent acquisitions or draft picks actually stepping up and contributing on a much larger scale as "real" outside receivers, which we've greatly lacked this year?

I'm ALL for keeping Julian Edelman and have been one of his bigger supporters here throughout his career, but I don't think these big numbers being thrown around are too reasonable. It was just last year that no one was really interested in him and he returned for 700k, so it's pretty reasonable to think that GMs around the league will be taking our injury concerns and lack of real targets into account when attempting to put a pricetag on him.

I think there's a chance he can return if he's willing to accept a nice pay raise up to 3 million or so AAV. If not, then it's hard to believe that Bill Belichick will be choosing to pay both he and Amendola that much money between the 2 of them on a longer term scale. We'll have to wait and see what happens. If another team overvalues him like they did with David Givens and they start throwing around ridiculous numbers then he's as good as gone, and there are lots of teams with 30-40-45 million in cap space right now.

 

[supafly]

They can't really save anything by trading Amendola next year, although it won't cost them extra millions in dead money, either; they wouldn't owe him his 2014 salary, but they would still have $3.6 in prorated bonus money for 2015-2017 to swallow.

The thought of getting rid of Danny Amendola already is borderline ridiculous to me, although I don't mean that in a disrespectful way towards snake eyes either, as it's a question that others will bring up too.

Danny Amendola is about 10x above Edelman in carrying out his blocking assignments, which have been tremendous this year. As a matter of fact, I think Amendola has had one of the better seasons at his position in terms of blocking. On top of that, there's a damn good reason why Danny Amendola was one of the more sought after shorter/intermediate receivers in the game last year and Julian Edelman barely got a sniff. Julian Edelman recently commented on his unpolished route running and blocking, and how he's still attempting to overcome those mistakes, progress, and move forward.

Edelman has made great strides in certain aspects, is a great STer, and seems like a hard worker. That said, I think that a guy like Bill Belichick will have a much better read on the whole big picture, as it seems like some here are tending to overvalue JE a bit due to our "patches and glue" season at the position of WR. These are certainly far from normal circumstances. We'll just have to trust Belichick on this decision and leave it at that. I think the odds are good as long as the numbers don't get too high, but it seems like many here are raising them every day.

If Belichick allows Edelman to test the free agent waters that I imagine he'll do, then we probably have a decent chance of losing him and we'll have to move on--the same as always.

 

[Double TE]

It's possible that Welker has actually helped Edelman. One of the knocks on Welker was that he could only do what he did on the Patriots; now he's proved its more than just the system -- so more teams would be willing to take a chance on Edelman than they would've if Welker failed in Denver

Not sure about that. He went to Denver where the D had to make sure Thomas and Decker didn't burn them allowing for Manning (another great QB) to throw short passes to him. I doubt he is as effective if he went to a team like Tenn, Oak, Hou, etc.

Time will tell who is correct.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

One of the primary reasons why Edelman had 100+ catches (or more importantly 150+ targets) this season was due to the fact that Gronkowski and Vereen missed 20 games between the 2 of them, Amendola missed 3-4 more and had a learning curve in his very first year here, along with trying to acclimate 3 separate rookies into our offense who didn't produce much on a normal WR scale. They did fine for rookies, but we should assume that we'll be getting better production than 30-35 catches from them moving forward (not to mention the fact that they all missed time with injuries/inactive statuses too).

The point I was trying to make earlier is that even with the other weapons he had in 2011 and 2012, Brady still sent over 25% of his passes to Welker.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

On top of that, there's a damn good reason why Danny Amendola was one of the more sought after shorter/intermediate receivers in the game last year and Julian Edelman barely got a sniff.

Edelman was also recovering from a broken foot, which is not a great thing for a WR in a contract year.

 

[supafly]

Edelman was also recovering from a broken foot, which is not a great thing for a WR in a contract year.

Certainly that had some bearing, but I'm not sure how much anyone was really thinking that Edelman was a decent receiver at the time either, judging by his past production. ST--yes, but receiving-wise he wasn't attracting much attention in my opinion.

If you recall, I've been an enormous JE supporter. I just think it's difficult to project whether or not he'll be staying here based on the fact that there are some who will likely be willing to overpay.

Obviously, we're all hoping that Belichick offers him enough of a reasonable deal for him to accept and stay, but Bill is also the kind of guy who is very likely to allow Julian the opportunity to test the waters of free agency too.

 

[coolguy]

Certainly that had some bearing, but I'm not sure how much anyone was really thinking that Edelman was a decent receiver at the time either, judging by his past production. ST--yes, but receiving-wise he wasn't attracting much attention in my opinion.

If you recall, I've been an enormous JE supporter. I just think it's difficult to project whether or not he'll be staying here based on the fact that there are some who will likely be willing to overpay.

Obviously, we're all hoping that Belichick offers him enough of a reasonable deal for him to accept and stay, but Bill is also the kind of guy who is very likely to allow Julian the opportunity to test the waters of free agency too.

How would you feel if the patriots went after eric decker instead of Edelman?

 

[supafly]

How would you feel if the patriots went after eric decker instead of Edelman?

Much better, to be completely honest with you--no knocks against Edelman of course.

I think Decker is leagues above a guy like Edelman as a pure WR. Of course our punt returns would take a bit of a hit, although I also don't think it'd be quite as bad as some feel either. My concern would be that a guy like Decker will cost too much though.

I think a guy like Decker is much more likely to receive an offer in the 5-6 million dollar AAV range, which are numbers that some are throwing around for Julian Edelman !!!

 

[Double TE]

Go for both...Edelman and Decker!

Brady probably has three excellent years left. Go all in!

I am curious if Talib comes back or if they go with Dennard/Ryan at corners.

 

[supafly]

Go for both...Edelman and Decker!

Brady probably has three excellent years left. Go all in!

I am curious if Talib comes back or if they go with Dennard/Ryan at corners.

I think that if they allow Talib to walk, they may need to target another CB in the draft again, even if it's not necessarily in the higher pick range.

While Dennard, Arrington, Ryan are decent enough CB's, I'd still want either something of a replacement for Talib's physical nature, or another good prospect in the draft.

Of course I keep going back and forth between CB/S, depending on Talib's situation. If Talib stays I want another safety selection. Once again, it doesn't necessarily need to be in the rounds 1-3 though--unless Darqueze Dennard is somehow there at CB, and in that case I will flip my ***** if we pass on him. I'm thinking he goes in the top 10-15 myself though.

 

[supafly]

Go for both...Edelman and Decker!

Brady probably has three excellent years left. Go all in!

I think it'd be very difficult to utilize our resources with that much money at the position myself. Remember that we are paying Amendola 6 million AAV on a 5/29 deal.

If we can get either one of Decker or Edelman, I'd be more than happy going forward, even if their price demands are likely going to be much different.