Rutgers rookies

[manxman2601]

Gregory gets $h!tted on unfairly on these boards. He was playing really well prior to getting hurt. He was playing the run as well as any safety in the league this year.

In regards to Harmon, I'm cautiously optimistic. Giving up that TD to Tamme where he was in position to make a play on the ball was discouraging. He has shown up positively in some spots the past two weeks but you'd like to see better instincts when playing the pass especially if his decision could be the difference between 3 points and 7 points.

He's a rookie. The NfL is a hundred times more complex and twice as fast as the college game. We should allow rookies some time to acclimatise. I think this is particularly important at safety where a momentary lapse in reading/reacting gets exposed more severely than most other positions.

 

[yukon cornelius]

Harmon didn't react slowly to that pass to Tamme. Harmon and Hightower had Tamme bracketed with Hightower towards the inside shoulder of Tamme and Harmon to the outside shoulder. Manning slipped in a perfect pass directly over Hightower's head to Tamme's inside. Harmon was in the right spot on that play, he just had no opportunity to make a play based on where Manning put the ball.

this was manning's best throw of the night


he had one other pass to tamme....i believe on their last scoring drive.....where tamme was crossing right to left.....he put the ball in tamme's hands just past harmon's (i think) hands


two perfect throws......thing is, manning couldn't hit the broadside of a barn outside the numbers or downfield last night

 

[manxman2601]

this was manning's best throw of the night


he had one other pass to tamme....i believe on their last scoring drive.....where tamme was crossing right to left.....he put the ball in tamme's hands just past harmon's (i think) hands


two perfect throws......thing is, manning couldn't hit the broadside of a barn outside the numbers or downfield last night

And Harmon was draped all over Tamme on that second pass you mentioned. But Manning's best pass of the night was the one to Thomas at the sideline that just eluded Talib.

 

[mgteich]

This is your second most questionable personal opinion, along with Amedendola not being worth a 4th round draft choice.

Arrington is one of the best nickel backs in the league.

Personally I'd rather have Ryan in the slot and Arrington as our dime back, Ryan is a playmaker who challenges the receiver, he also appears to have natural ball instincts that can't be taught.

 

[yukon cornelius]

another point, one that collingsworth, whoe was damned good last night, also made


they are not changing any coverage packages for the rookies......last night they did a tremendous job disguising coverages and changing coverages at the line after manning made his play calls......manning was often times throughly confused last night


to be able to do that with a rookie CB and rookie S against a payton manning is some slick

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

I hate to go here but Ryan reminds me of Ty Law. Not saying he'll be as good but both were not that big and not truly fast but had the feel/instinct to get their hands on the ball.

 

[yukon cornelius]

And Harmon was draped all over Tamme on that second pass you mentioned. But Manning's best pass of the night was the one to Thomas at the sideline that just eluded Talib.

he had nice touch on that, considering the wind


but manning still has touch......i was impressed to see him make those tough, thread the needle type passes in that wind, considering his physical limitations these days

 

[manxman2601]

This is your second most questionable personal opinion, along with Amedendola not being worth a 4th round draft choice.

Arrington is one of the best nickel backs in the league.

I do wonder why people feel the need to say that Patriot player A is better than Patriot player B. Shouldn't we be celebrating the fact that we have two good nickel CBs, two good #2 safeties and two good slot receivers?

 

[Claremonster]

I hate to go here but Ryan reminds me of Ty Law. Not saying he'll be as good but both were not that big and not truly fast but had the feel/instinct to get their hands on the ball.

Law was pretty dang good when he was here. I like Ryan also...

 

[fnordcircle]

I hate to go here but Ryan reminds me of Ty Law. Not saying he'll be as good but both were not that big and not truly fast but had the feel/instinct to get their hands on the ball.

No - I'm with you.

Honestly I'm beginning to think that Ryan makes Talib a luxury, when 5-6 weeks ago I would have been thinking of Talib as a must-have.

 

[manxman2601]

No - I'm with you.

Honestly I'm beginning to think that Ryan makes Talib a luxury, when 5-6 weeks ago I would have been thinking of Talib as a must-have.

Whilst I was experiencing similar thoughts yesterday, are we ready to have Ryan go up against Green, Jones, Jackson, Thomas, Graham, all top receivers that Talib has effectively shut down this year? That's on the optimistic side of optimistic at this juncture. It is nice that we've got such good depth in the secondary now however.

 

[mgteich]

Ryan has been playing great.

It is a bit early to consider him one of the best corners in the NFL, or a replacement for one of the best corners in the NFL.

No - I'm with you.

Honestly I'm beginning to think that Ryan makes Talib a luxury, when 5-6 weeks ago I would have been thinking of Talib as a must-have.

 

[DocHoliday]

What a change of fortunes for Greg Schiano. His old team is tanking on D, many his players are doing very well, and the Bucs are finally playing like a team you imagine someone that idolized BB would coach.

 

[manxman2601]

What a change of fortunes for Greg Schiano. His old team is tanking on D, many his players are doing very well, and the Bucs are finally playing like a team you imagine someone that idolized BB would coach.

You mean that Greg Schiano might actually be a good coach as BB recognises and those that we're so quick to criticise him in TB failed to recognise the concept of team rebuilding.

 

[yukon cornelius]

Ryan next year is a downgrade if you don't keep talib

'14 ryan/dennard < '13 talib/dennard


but he certainly makes signing talib interesting, because if he continues on his current arc, the downgrade might not be all that big or all that long




i want em all back......this secondary is turning into a strength

 

[PatsBoy12]

Ryan is a playmaker. I've been saying it since TC. Harmon has been a pleasant surprise. He has played extremely well and, more importantly, smart. He was just a step slow on the Tamme TD, but so was Hightower. It was the perfect coverage, just poor execution.

I'm going to remain cautiously optimistic about all of the young guys. We saw Tavon Wilson show some flashes and nothing after. Chris Jones started out hot and so did Vellano to a lesser extent. They've both been somewhat invisible. Heck, they got bullied last night. But they're all learning on the job and are getting valuable experience (in big games too) for the playoffs.

 

[mrscruff]

Ryan, Dennard , Arrington and Talib are all different types of cornerbacks with their own strengths and weaknesses. The ability to match up with different types of receivers has meant that the Patriots have been very competitive covering wide receivers.

If Talib is not re-signed (his health will be a consideration on top of the dollars/years he will command), then the need for a tall, physical cornerback who can play man-to-man will be a requirement. Talib's role is what the Patriots hoped Ras-I Dowling and to an extent Leigh Bodden, would have been had they panned out.

 

[patchick]

No - I'm with you.

Honestly I'm beginning to think that Ryan makes Talib a luxury, when 5-6 weeks ago I would have been thinking of Talib as a must-have.

I'm not ready to go that far. I'm very high on both Dennard and Ryan, but they seem awfully similar. They're very average in terms of size and speed, making their mark with awareness and technique. A big, fast pure cover guy like Talib gives you a different kind of matchup and a lot more flexibility in game planning.

But overall, how many Patriots secondaries have looked this good and this deep?

Arrington, Dennard, Ryan, Talib
Gregory, Harmon, McCourty
(+ Cole, Ebner, Wilson)

 

[manxman2601]

The thing about Harmon is that he's playing, at the very least,like a 3rd rounder which rather vindicates the pick does it not?

 

[manxman2601]

I'm not ready to go that far. I'm very high on both Dennard and Ryan, but they seem awfully similar. They're very average in terms of size and speed, making their mark with awareness and technique. A big, fast pure cover guy like Talib gives you a different kind of matchup and a lot more flexibility in game planning.

But overall, how many Patriots secondaries have looked this good and this deep?

Arrington, Dennard, Ryan, Talib
Gregory, Harmon, McCourty
(+ Cole, Ebner, Wilson)

I'd take Cole out of the brackets personally. I think he's more than adequate as a #5 CB and he's turning into a near elite special teamer.