The fallacy of "uncatchable."

[Fixit]

Now I remember. This is what Fixit was talking about but did not want to clarify. The "yeah, but they did it too" argument. I remember hearing about that claim and looking it up at the time. I watched the play again, but did not see any push into the pile on the Jets part.

Now that is a shocker.

I guess I'll just have to take solace in the fact that the league said it should've been called against the Jets.

 

[Uncle Meat]

Now that is a shocker.

I guess I'll just have to take solace in the fact that the league said it should've been called against the Jets.

Link?

I really don't think THIS cost you the game:

 

[Archeryaddict12]

Link?

I really don't think THIS cost you the game:

Give us a 1st down and we can probably win. And yes, the jets committed the same foul we did. And it's the play coaches look at to not replicate because you guys committed the foul first. Keep on jests fan, ignore the facts.

 

[Fixit]

Link?

I really don't think THIS cost you the game:

I'm not doing your homework for you.

And it may have cost them the game. They get that penalty and they probably go on to score a TD. And it sure cost them the game when it was called against them in OT.

But I understand now. Pats get a call, it costs the other team the game. Call goes against the Pats, it didn't really make a difference anyway.

 

[Uncle Meat]

I'm not doing your homework for you.

And it may have cost them the game. They get that penalty and they probably go on to score a TD. And it sure cost them the game when it was called against them in OT.

But I understand now. Pats get a call, it costs the other team the game. Call goes against the Pats, it didn't really make a difference anyway.

No, that's just basically what YOU seem to believe, or the exact opposite of that. I'm saying that they got a bad call for them, and they got a bad call against them...or both of them were non-calls. The bad non-call in your favor was worse IN THE RESULTS. It evens out at least. I've said that many times, and that's my only point.

I've also said that I laid a chunk of money on the Patriots against the Panthers. I had the Patriots plus 2-and-a-half points, so if they scored a TD there at the end, I would have won a bunch of money. I was upset at the time as well.

If you look at this field goal, at worst the Jets player gives his teammate a one-handed love tap as he is diving forward into the line. I'm not even sure he did that much. There was absolutely no force involved, and you can tell by the alleged pushers body position. He didn't really push him at all, it looks like to me. Not driving forward at all. After one second, he immediately turns around to see if the field goal is good. Seems somebody with sour grapes is reading too much into this and sees what he wants to. And if you want to use THAT as a reason that the Pats lost the game, that's just pathetic.

If you don't want to provide me a link of the league saying this should have been called as pushing into the pile, I'll just assume that you are full of crap.

 

[Fixit]

No, that's just basically what YOU seem to believe, or the exact opposite of that. I'm saying that they got a bad call for them, and they got a bad call against them...or both of them were non-calls. The bad non-call in your favor was worse IN THE RESULTS. It evens out at least. I've said that many times, and that's my only point.

I've also said that I laid a chunk of money on the Patriots against the Panthers. I had the Patriots plus 2-and-a-half points, so if they scored a TD there at the end, I would have won a bunch of money. I was upset at the time as well.

If you look at this field goal, at worst the Jets player gives his teammate a one-handed love tap as he is diving forward into the line. There was absolutely no force involved, and you can tell by the alleged pushers body position. He didn't really push him, it looks like to me. Seems somebody with sour grapes is reading too much into this and sees what he wants to.

And if you want to use THAT as a reason that the Pats lost the game, that's just pathetic.

If you don't want to provide me a link of the league saying this should have been called as pushing into the pile, I'll just assume that you are full of crap.

Have fun with that. You'll still be wrong.

And I think the NO fans using the hold as an excuse is pathetic. I don't think the rusher gets there in time to affect the throw, although I do think that Brady would get drilled. What was pathetic was the defense that allowed NE to gain all of those yards in under a minute.

This is a fun game.

 

[Uncle Meat]

Have fun with that. You'll still be wrong.

And I think the NO fans using the hold as an excuse is pathetic. I don't think the rusher gets there in time to affect the throw, although I do think that Brady would get drilled. What was pathetic was the defense that allowed NE to gain all of those yards in under a minute.

This is a fun game.

Using the hold as an excuse is just as valid as using the pass interference as an excuse.

That's the only point that I'm making to those that want to cry victim.

Crying about the Jets pushing into the pile whether they did or didn't (and they didn't) is the definition of pathetic.

 

[Fixit]

Using the hold as an excuse is just as valid as using the pass interference as an excuse.

The only point.

Crying about the Jets pushing into the pile whether they did or didn't (and they didn't) is the definition of pathetic.

The PI affected the play. The hold may or may not have.

I love, LOVE, how you haven't taken ten seconds to Google the Jets push thing and continue to look like an ass about it.

Lastly, I'll bet you a paycheck that if we look up the definition of "pathetic" it won't even mention a field goal. That's just silly.

 

[Fixit]

Anyway, I'm really done with this now. Happy trolling.

 

[Uncle Meat]

The PI affected the play. The hold may or may not have.

C'mon now. You are exactly wrong here. Galette has a WAY better chance to get to Brady than Gronkowski does catching that ball...way, way better chance. Solder was impeding Galette's progress from the snap of the ball by holding him. The guy who intercepted the ball was always in the WAY best position to catch it. Kuechly didn't even have to drape him like that, as he was in a good position too. Gronk didn't even TRY to come back to the ball.

I love, LOVE, how you haven't taken ten seconds to Google the Jets push thing and continue to look like an ass about it.

The burden of proof lies with those that make claims. Didn't they teach you that in school?

Lastly, I'll bet you a paycheck that if we look up the definition of "pathetic" it won't even mention a field goal. That's just silly.

Context, son...context. Remember that word...look up the definition in the dictionary if you must, and then apply it.

 

[Fixit]

C'mon now. You are exactly wrong here. Galette has a WAY better chance to get to Brady than Gronkowski does catching that ball...way, way better chance. Solder was impeding Galette's progress from the snap of the ball by holding him. The guy who intercepted the ball was always in the WAY best position to catch it. Kuechly didn't even have to drape him like that, as he was in a good position too.



The burden of proof lies with those that make claims. Didn't they teach you that in school?



Context, son...context. Remember that word...look up the definition in the dictionary if you must, and then apply it.

Oh, for God's sake. Solder's allowed to block the guy. The hold doesn't happen until near the end of the play. It's very, very unclear if he would've gotten there in time to affect the throw. If you're arguing that he would've gotten there if Solder didn't block him at all, I concede the point.

I didn't make a claim that needs proving. Someone else already proved it, I just won't provide you with that proof. You'd rather be lazy than get your facts straight.

Sarcasm, son ... sarcasm.

BTW, I just put you on ignore. Enjoy your troll-fest.

 

[Uncle Meat]

Oh, for God's sake. Solder's allowed to block the guy. The hold doesn't happen until near the end of the play. It's very, very unclear if he would've gotten there in time to affect the throw. If you're arguing that he would've gotten there if Solder didn't block him at all, I concede the point.

I didn't make a claim that needs proving. Someone else already proved it, I just won't provide you with that proof. You'd rather be lazy than get your facts straight.

Sarcasm, son ... sarcasm.

BTW, I just put you on ignore. Enjoy your troll-fest.

You gotta be kidding me. Solder was holding him the entire time. Look again:



Only did it "near the end." LOL. The proof is staring you in face right here. Solder absolutely mugged the guy from the snap of the ball. Solder grabs his jersey and yanks him by his shoulder pad right away so as to not let Galette get away from him...that alone is holding. Then he wraps him up from behind criminally.

And you DID make the claim in this argument. And if you can't take a heated argument, then you're a *****. Don't partake in one. Put me on ignore if you will, but I'm not trolling. I'd have the same argument on a Bills board if I disagree with somebody...or anywhere else. I'm not pulling any punches here...not that you'll read this, having turned tail and fled. Go cry alone into your sleeve with your delusions of persecution. God forbid debates happen on a message board.

My argument is simple: you cannot complain about unfairness while looking at the big picture this year. My logic behind that is sound.

 

[aluminum seats]

I know this is old news by now, but wanted to put in my two cents.

Taking everything into account, I think the non-call on the Gronk interference might have been the worst call I've ever seen. Most of it has already been hashed out--it was blatant, it was CALLED and reversed, etc.

But what that call really does--and particular the league defense of it does--is fundamentally transform the penalty. "Uncatchable" has always meant a pass 40 yards over the receiver's head, out of bounds, no-brainer uncatchable. The ridiculous precision these refs and the league are now claiming? OK...so every call will have to take into account the skill of the given receiver? The exact point at which the ball went from catchable to uncatchable? It's insane. Put it this way, the next interference call against the Pats is going to be VERY interesting to watch. And careful, refs, if it's in Foxborough.

As I side note, I truly despise the whole, "it shouldn't have down to that anyway...the Pats lost it on their own." Suddenly, the pursuit of a win becomes this Mt. Olympus, the victory must be pure & unblemished, nonsense. Yeah, teams make mistakes. The Pats did in that game. It's hard to win. All of that means NOTHING, and it doesn't mean that it's not right and proper for fans to justifiably be furious about the outcome. Really, I'll be happy never to hear that line ever again. It's a weird attempt to be holier-than-thou in some way and it stinks and it sucks and I hate it. That is all.

 

[scout]

What picking up that flag meant for me. The rules of football has always been according to gospel. Maybe a ref makes a bad call, but the rules are the rules, as evidenced by the "tuck rule". When that flag was picked up because of an "uncatchable" ball reminded me of the double play in baseball. When the second baseman never actually steps on the bag but is given the out for being in the neighborhood. That Mr. Commissioner, is what you have just produced. Congratulations!

 

[Joker]

Bill Belichick: Jets were cheating, too - Worldnews.com

"Wilkerson was lined up between the guard and long snapper on the play. Coples was to his left over guard Logan Mankins. It appears Coples gets blocked and then gives Wilkerson a shove with his forearm."



Bill Belichick: Jets also pushed illegally on field goals

A day after Rex Ryan implied he knew all about the Patriots' shady special-teams tactics, Bill Belichick told Boston writers the Jets also were guilty of using the illegal "push'' tactic on field-goal attempts.

Asked on a conference call Tuesday if he was bothered that the Jets reportedly asked officials to keep an eye on his players, Belichick said: "Well, I mean, since they were using the play themselves, I don't even know about all that. But basically we're just moving on here.''

Whining Patriots coach Bill Belichick says NY Jets pushed, too - NY Daily News

Bill Belichick points out that Jets used push play on Stephen Gostkowski’s kick.

The obscure pushing penalty that gave the Jets a second chance to beat the Patriots in overtime is the controversy that just keeps on going. Bill Belichick is the latest to prod the fire, claiming that the Jets were just as guilty as the Patriots of pushing teammates on field goal block attempts.

Belichick was asked Tuesday what he thought of the Jets alerting the officials to look out for the Patriots’ maneuver.

“Well, I mean, since they were using the play themselves I don’t even know about all that,” Belichick said. “But basically we’re just moving on here.”

Belichick was almost certainly referring to the Jets’ block attempt on Stephen Gostkowski’s 44-yard field goal that tied the game late in the fourth quarter. On the play, Quinton Coples moved behind Muhammad Wilkerson, and appears to give him a push. Though the angles on the film are inconclusive, it doesn’t appear nearly as egregious as the Chris Jones penalty.

Later in the game the referee wasted no time throwing his flag on Jones, nullifying a 56-yard miss by Nick Folk. The 15-yard penalty ultimately allowed the Jets to kick a 42-yard game-winner to beat the Patriots, 30-27, in overtime.

After the game, it was discovered that NFL.com’s explanation of the rule had changed Sunday evening, to remove a caveat for players at the line of scrimmage that isn’t actually in the rulebook but had caused some confusion. It apparently confused Belichick, who on Sunday was under the impression that those players lining up at the line of scrimmage were not prohibited from pushing a teammate.



Patholgically brain damaged NFL bettors with no ability to deal with reality belong at a Gamblers Anonymous meeting....not polluting Patsfans threads with their insane diatribes.

 

[Uncle Meat]

Whining Patriots coach Bill Belichick says NY Jets pushed, too - NY Daily News

Patholgically brain damaged NFL bettors with no ability to deal with reality belong at a Gamblers Anonymous meeting....not polluting Patsfans threads with their insane diatribes.

LOL, the evidence is overwhelming; after all, Bill Belichick said something. I can provide links of Rex Ryan saying "no, we didn't push into the pile" that hold equal credence. It's hilarious to me that you use an article that headlines "Whining Patriots coach Bill Belichick says NY Jets pushed, too" as some kind of half-assed proof...classic. Who is brain damaged?

You could really tell that Belichick was an expert on the rule in his postgame press conference, too. Sure thing.

I'd rather trust my own two eyes. Check it out:



Oh, the humanity!

 

[Sciz]

LOL, the evidence is overwhelming; after all, Bill Belichick said something. I can provide links of Rex Ryan saying "no, we didn't push into the pile" that hold equal credence. It's hilarious to me that you use an article that headlines "Whining Patriots coach Bill Belichick says NY Jets pushed, too" as some kind of half-assed proof...classic. Who is brain damaged?

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/statuses/394474393868308480

Umpire Tony Michalek, who called penalty on Pats, did not call it on Jets, even though NFL admitted in HC video that both were violations.

That a better source?

 

[Archeryaddict12]

LOL, the evidence is overwhelming; after all, Bill Belichick said something. I can provide links of Rex Ryan saying "no, we didn't push into the pile" that hold equal credence. It's hilarious to me that you use an article that headlines "Whining Patriots coach Bill Belichick says NY Jets pushed, too" as some kind of half-assed proof...classic. Who is brain damaged?

You could really tell that Belichick was an expert on the rule in his postgame press conference, too. Sure thing.

I'd rather trust my own two eyes. Check it out:



Oh, the humanity!

Meat, your being grilled right now lol. Adam schefter good enough, or do you want to be on the grill longer

 

[Avenger]

Bill Belichick: Jets were cheating, too - Worldnews.com

"Wilkerson was lined up between the guard and long snapper on the play. Coples was to his left over guard Logan Mankins. It appears Coples gets blocked and then gives Wilkerson a shove with his forearm."



Bill Belichick: Jets also pushed illegally on field goals

A day after Rex Ryan implied he knew all about the Patriots' shady special-teams tactics, Bill Belichick told Boston writers the Jets also were guilty of using the illegal "push'' tactic on field-goal attempts.

Asked on a conference call Tuesday if he was bothered that the Jets reportedly asked officials to keep an eye on his players, Belichick said: "Well, I mean, since they were using the play themselves, I don't even know about all that. But basically we're just moving on here.''

Whining Patriots coach Bill Belichick says NY Jets pushed, too - NY Daily News

Bill Belichick points out that Jets used push play on Stephen Gostkowski’s kick.

The obscure pushing penalty that gave the Jets a second chance to beat the Patriots in overtime is the controversy that just keeps on going. Bill Belichick is the latest to prod the fire, claiming that the Jets were just as guilty as the Patriots of pushing teammates on field goal block attempts.

Belichick was asked Tuesday what he thought of the Jets alerting the officials to look out for the Patriots’ maneuver.

“Well, I mean, since they were using the play themselves I don’t even know about all that,” Belichick said. “But basically we’re just moving on here.”

Belichick was almost certainly referring to the Jets’ block attempt on Stephen Gostkowski’s 44-yard field goal that tied the game late in the fourth quarter. On the play, Quinton Coples moved behind Muhammad Wilkerson, and appears to give him a push. Though the angles on the film are inconclusive, it doesn’t appear nearly as egregious as the Chris Jones penalty.

Later in the game the referee wasted no time throwing his flag on Jones, nullifying a 56-yard miss by Nick Folk. The 15-yard penalty ultimately allowed the Jets to kick a 42-yard game-winner to beat the Patriots, 30-27, in overtime.

After the game, it was discovered that NFL.com’s explanation of the rule had changed Sunday evening, to remove a caveat for players at the line of scrimmage that isn’t actually in the rulebook but had caused some confusion. It apparently confused Belichick, who on Sunday was under the impression that those players lining up at the line of scrimmage were not prohibited from pushing a teammate.



Patholgically brain damaged NFL bettors with no ability to deal with reality belong at a Gamblers Anonymous meeting....not polluting Patsfans threads with their insane diatribes.

Report: NFL admits Jets got away with penalty | Comcast SportsNet - CSNNE.com

NFL admitted it

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Sorry to rehash this but I think many are missing the true point to the Jets travesty. You do NOT make an obscure, first time ever called, muddled penalty on the last play of the game ever. EVER!!! THAT! is the referees making a conscious decision to affect the outcome of the game. Conversely, at the end of the Panther game the refs did what they almost do on or very close to the last play of the game, they let the penalty go as to not be a direct affect on the game result. One can argue whether that is the right way to officiate but one cannot argue that is the normal way. But to pull out this obscure F'n rule and use it for the first time ever at that point in a game??? An atrocious call by a ref who should never be near another Patriot game. And the smackmeat, d1ps#!ts passing off broken wind as intelligent banter is a microcosm as to what is wrong with so many aspects of society.
Bottom line, unequivocally, unarguably the Patriots were HOSED against the Jets.

Phew.....glad I got that off my chest.