Panthers fans concerned about big 4 on defense

[Kdo5]

I'd say the bigger story is on the other side of the ball where the underwhelming Pat's O-line hasn't been able to handle a D-Line's like the one the Panther's have. If they protect Brady the Pats will put up a bunch of points and Carolina won't be able to run the ball and the Pats win. Don't protect Brady and Carolina grinds the defense down and wins a close low scoring game.

I agree that this is the key and what will win or lose the game. TB needs to be protected well and we need to get ahead early. Make the Panther's passing game a much more significant factor.

 

[DoubleTrouble]

yes.......newton's season is statistically the 3rd best out of his 3 years

except when he gets hit a few times, the panthers lose, but don't let that minor detail slip past you


BTW, I though you were done?

Newton statistically is the 3rd most accurate QB in the NFL THIS season....when under pressure.

We lost Buffalo b/c our coach played not to win at the end and now we have Riverboat Ron. In addition to that the refs hosed us. Sacks....clearly werent the reason we lost that. You don't watch the games.

Seattle? DeAngelo Williams fumbled the ball at Sea 8. That was the game winning drive. That wasn't sacks making Cam crumble.

AZ? Newton was on fire the first half...his team sucked. They continued to suck and Cam had a bad second half. One half of football pressure abused him in a game where no one else got off the plane to help him.

You need to watch football outside of NE.

 

[IllegalContact]

Newton statistically is the 3rd most accurate QB in the NFL THIS season....when under pressure.

We lost Buffalo b/c our coach played not to win at the end and now we have Riverboat Ron. In addition to that the refs hosed us. Sacks....clearly werent the reason we lost that. You don't watch the games.

Seattle? DeAngelo Williams fumbled the ball at Sea 8. That was the game winning drive. That wasn't sacks making Cam crumble.

AZ? Newton was on fire the first half...his team sucked. They continued to suck and Cam had a bad second half. One half of football pressure abused him in a game where no one else got off the plane to help him.

You need to watch football outside of NE.

well.....sounds like he's not the only problem.

just make sure you return on tuesday

 

[manxman2601]

I'd believe that Newton is good under pressure, but PFF is the most garbage football site ever.

This PFF hate is getting silly. just because once they didn't think the sun shone out of Brady's rear end. What was mentioned were mere facts, completion percentages under pressure. No-one should be taking issue with that. It's fine to question their ratings because those are subjective but statistical facts like completion percentages are a different story.

It strikes me that many Patsfans a) are merely programmed to say @PFF sucks and have little to back it up, save something that happened in 2010, or b) if they don't like what they hear use the @pff sucks line to avoid a discussion.

This rant wasn't aimed at you - just a release of some pent up annoyance. PFF is a useful resource providing it's used responsibly.

 

[Huckleberry1]

This PFF hate is getting silly. just because once they didn't think the sun shone out of Brady's rear end. What was mentioned were mere facts, completion percentages under pressure. No-one should be taking issue with that. It's fine to question their ratings because those are subjective but statistical facts like completion percentages are a different story.

It strikes me that many Patsfans a) are merely programmed to say @PFF sucks and have little to back it up, save something that happened in 2010, or b) if they don't like what they hear use the @pff sucks line to avoid a discussion.

This rant wasn't aimed at you - just a release of some pent up annoyance. PFF is a useful resource providing it's used responsibly.

Nothing ridiculous about it, they suck. Just because a couple f guys get together and watch games and make up bullsh.t stats doesn't make it valid, and they aren't and most people recognize that. The everybody is now an fxpert crap is ridiculous, and there is no greater contributor to that folly than PFF?. Any time someone tries to invoke them I will always be there to remind them that PFF named Kareem Mackenzie the best player in football a few texts ago, and sad there were 33 players better than Brady the year he was unanimous MVP. What a frigging joke of a site.

 

[Deus Irae]

This PFF hate is getting silly. just because once they didn't think the sun shone out of Brady's rear end. What was mentioned were mere facts, completion percentages under pressure. No-one should be taking issue with that. It's fine to question their ratings because those are subjective but statistical facts like completion percentages are a different story.

It strikes me that many Patsfans a) are merely programmed to say @PFF sucks and have little to back it up, save something that happened in 2010, or b) if they don't like what they hear use the @pff sucks line to avoid a discussion.

This rant wasn't aimed at you - just a release of some pent up annoyance. PFF is a useful resource providing it's used responsibly.

PFF is garbage. That's not because of Brady. It's because PFF is garbage.

 

[BritPat]

They even admit their own stats and grades are flawed! Check out their team of the week grades and then see how much they get changed when the all 22 becomes available. And even then they have NO IDEA what any particular player's assignment was. How can they grade without knowing what the intended outcome was?

PFF sucks. There's very little about the site that's worth reading, save for the participation stats. Even then I'd be tempted to check.

 

[manxman2601]

Nothing ridiculous about it, they suck. Just because a couple f guys get together and watch games and make up bullsh.t stats doesn't make it valid, and they aren't and most people recognize that. The everybody is now an fxpert crap is ridiculous, and there is no greater contributor to that folly than PFF?. Any time someone tries to invoke them I will always be there to remind them that PFF named Kareem Mackenzie the best player in football a few texts ago, and sad there were 33 players better than Brady the year he was unanimous MVP. What a frigging joke of a site.

PFF is garbage. That's not because of Brady. It's because PFF is garbage.

They even admit their own stats and grades are flawed! Check out their team of the week grades and then see how much they get changed when the all 22 becomes available. And even then they have NO IDEA what any particular player's assignment was. How can they grade without knowing what the intended outcome was?

PFF sucks. There's very little about the site that's worth reading, save for the participation stats. Even then I'd be tempted to check.

You watched all the games and can isolate exactly where there grades are wrong right? No purpose in saying something sucks unless you can back it up because otherwise it's a completely meaningless statement. Can't take people seriously when their argument is "it sucks".

 

[BritPat]

Manx, you have you opinion and that's fair enough. I'll simply say this - when Mayo was DROTY back in 2008, did you think it was deserved?

 

[manxman2601]

Manx, you have you opinion and that's fair enough. I'll simply say this - when Mayo was DROTY back in 2008, did you think it was deserved?

I didn't watch every rookie that year so it would be impossible to form an objective opinion.

What bugs me is that I try to do research when I'm making a point and one of my research points is PFF. Note "one of". Unfortunately the mere mention of PFF just generates this silly response "it sucks" and any chance of debate is immediately killed off.

 

[BritPat]

I didn't watch every rookie that year so it would be impossible to form an objective opinion.

What bugs me is that I try to do research when I'm making a point and one of my research points is PFF. Note "one of". Unfortunately the mere mention of PFF just generates this silly response "it sucks" and any chance of debate is immediately killed off.

Fair enough - but do you think Mayo was as bad as the 38th best MLB/ILB in the league?

 

[manxman2601]

Fair enough - but do you think Mayo was as bad as the 38th best MLB/ILB in the league?

Again, I didn't focus on the other 37 above him so I cannot arrive at an objective answer (also I said that I'm not really interested in how PFF ranks people), that I'm more interested in their stats (# of drops, completion % under pressure etc).

But let me ask you this, if you think their ranking was wrong, break down for me the play of Akin Ayodele or Dhani Jones who both finished ahead of him. To determine that PFF sucks you have to have studied both to think it's wrong to rank them ahead of Mayo. Otherwise you're just guessing. I'm not having a go, just pointing out that subjective criticism of something that is objective just can't work.

 

[BritPat]

But that's the point, we're not claiming to be experts or charging for the knowledge. Fact is, enough people watching the games saw Mayo as the best rookie defensive player in the league, let alone rookie Linebacker.

Same for Brady's unanimous MVP.

So many people can't be wrong.

PFF sucks. You don't need a 300 page report to see why. Use your eyes, watch the players then read their grades. You will genuinely wonder if you have watched the same game sometimes.

 

[manxman2601]

But that's the point, we're not claiming to be experts or charging for the knowledge. Fact is, enough people watching the games saw Mayo as the best rookie defensive player in the league, let alone rookie Linebacker.

Same for Brady's unanimous MVP.

So many people can't be wrong.

PFF sucks. You don't need a 300 page report to see why. Use your eyes, watch the players then read their grades. You will genuinely wonder if you have watched the same game sometimes.

And I've said that I don't really use them for that.

So I have a question of my own for you.

Which of our two defensive ends, Rob Ninkovich and Chandler Jones has got the most pressure on opposing QBs this year and by what margin? I'm including sacks, hurries and hits.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

We may have killed the steelers, but this patriot offense is nothing to write off. I think the best offensive performance will come Monday, because all of the pieces (besides vollmer) will be in place and healed up. Couple that with a bye, the offense is flying under the radar IMO.

 

[Brady6]

Although there are alot of arrogant ****y panther fans, I read the same concern on some of their forums of our 3 defensive players. Many fans of Carolina are saying that they are concerned about the matchup of Rob Ninkovich vs Cam Newton, Chandler Jones off the edge, Aqib Talib on Steve Smith and Devin McCourty playing center field. Here is a quote from one on Carolina's huddle "Ninkovich playing mind games with Cam is a concern for me as well as staying away form Talib's side. And we also have to be careful of McCourty lurking back there at center field dude is sneaky, I'd say running the ball is a safer bet to stay away from turnovers in this one"... any comments on that.

I’m not following the Ninkovich vs. Newton piece of the post? Wouldn’t it be Ninkovich vs. Byron Bell that would be the concern?

Essentially what they’re concerned with is likely what concerns every offense that faces us, with Wilfork and Mayo on reserve the 4 players you’ve listed are our best defensive players. I don’t really understand what you’re attempting to convey here? I am not surprised that these players are the ones that garner the most attention on defense.

 

[manxman2601]

And I've said that I don't really use them for that.

So I have a question of my own for you.

Which of our two defensive ends, Rob Ninkovich and Chandler Jones has got the most pressure on opposing QBs this year and by what margin? I'm including sacks, hurries and hits.

Here's something interesting I found at PFF. In two games, Andre Carter (7) has only 1 QB pressure less than Michael Buchanan (8) has in 8 games. That's interesting and helps support a case that the Andre Carter signing was a good one. How does that suck?

 

[Brady6]

You watched all the games and can isolate exactly where there grades are wrong right? No purpose in saying something sucks unless you can back it up because otherwise it's a completely meaningless statement. Can't take people seriously when their argument is "it sucks".

Honestly I agree with you about the dislike for PFF amongst the members of the board. I do not think PFF is the end all be all but they provide insight into situational play that is hard to gauge unless you watch each individual game. Are there situations such as Mayo’s when the PFF rankings will not properly illustrate the play of the player? Yes absolutely but that is the case with the stats you see on ESPN too, a perfect example of that is Blount who looks like he is having a very good season when you look at his stat line but if you were to watch his actual play you would see that those stats are misleading.

To completely dismiss PFF is shortsighted, and to call a site that is used nationally by fans and media members as sucking is illogical, Greg Bedard has likely forget more about football than many of us will ever know and he has used PFF's information in articles on several occasions. I guess my perspective is that you can certainly call out PFF's ranking of Mayo as inaccurate but to define the entire site as garbage or sucking is ridiculous, sort of self-righteous to boot.

 

[Brady6]

Here's something interesting I found at PFF. In two games, Andre Carter (7) has only 1 QB pressure less than Michael Buchanan (8) has in 8 games. That's interesting and helps support a case that the Andre Carter signing was a good one. How does that suck?

That is surprising, I actually did not think Carter was playing that well. How many pressures does he have?

 

[Brady6]

PFF sucks. You don't need a 300 page report to see why. Use your eyes, watch the players then read their grades. You will genuinely wonder if you have watched the same game sometimes.

I think PFF like many sites has its errors and given the choice between relying on the PFF stats or relying on watching the actual game tape to asses a player obviously the game tape is more reliable but as fans we cannot watch every game so there are things that PFF can offer insight into (more on other teams) that we cannot see on ESPN or NFL.com.