Is Josh McDaniels any good?

[Mack Herron]

I am sure the jets know that too, dont they and maybe tried to shut that down ?? Isnt that a possibility ? They ran on a 3rd and 1 and missed a blocking assignment and didnt covert so its not like they didnt try. Stuff didnt work as the game went on like it did in the first half.

I must have fallen asleep after halftime when the passing game was clicking so well....

 

[SVN]

I must have fallen asleep after halftime when the passing game was clicking so well....

no one said it did. but nothing worked. oline/rushing/passing ..they all sucked. they played bad football and it falls on everyone not just the OC. Easiest guy to blame.

 

[Harrisoned!]

Not McDaniels' fault that Brady has been overthrowing every pass longer than 25 yards all year. Not McDaniels' fault that Wendell, Connolly and Cannon have been turnstiles. Not his fault either that Thompkins and Dobson dropped a ton of balls the first 5 weeks of the year.

I would say though that two things are concerning me this year:

1) Red zone offense: getting Gronk and later Vereen should help this, but right now we're one of the five worst red zone teams in the NFL. Calling up plays like play-action to your left tackle could be contributing to that.

2) Second-half gameplans: we seem to be struggling a lot after halftime and at least part of that should be attributed to coaches not making proper adjustments to what the opposition changes at halftime. McDaniels and co. have to stay one step ahead of the defense.

Overall I think he is a good, not amazing, offensive coordinator. I liked O'Brien's attitude, willingness to rip Brady and overall play-calling balance a bit better, but I still think McD is a net-positive. He's no Sean Payton but he puts the team in positions to succeed.

Our offensive struggles have far more to do with, in order:

1) Brady's inability to consistently hit his targets
2) Our OL being wildly inconsistent - either time all day or no time at all to throw, changing snap to snap sometimes
3) Our WRs not catching balls and running wrong routes
4) Poor play by the RBs, be it fumbles (Ridley), drops (Bolden) or suckitude (Blount)
5) Lack of production from TE (at least this one should be solved now)

 

[moejr]

Not McDaniels' fault that Brady has been overthrowing every pass longer than 25 yards all year. Not McDaniels' fault that Wendell, Connolly and Cannon have been turnstiles. Not his fault either that Thompkins and Dobson dropped a ton of balls the first 5 weeks of the year.

I would say though that two things are concerning me this year:

1) Red zone offense: getting Gronk and later Vereen should help this, but right now we're one of the five worst red zone teams in the NFL. Calling up plays like play-action to your left tackle could be contributing to that.

2) Second-half gameplans: we seem to be struggling a lot after halftime and at least part of that should be attributed to coaches not making proper adjustments to what the opposition changes at halftime. McDaniels and co. have to stay one step ahead of the defense.

Overall I think he is a good, not amazing, offensive coordinator. I liked O'Brien's attitude, willingness to rip Brady and overall play-calling balance a bit better, but I still think McD is a net-positive. He's no Sean Payton but he puts the team in positions to succeed.

Our offensive struggles have far more to do with, in order:

1) Brady's inability to consistently hit his targets
2) Our OL being wildly inconsistent - either time all day or no time at all to throw, changing snap to snap sometimes
3) Our WRs not catching balls and running wrong routes
4) Poor play by the RBs, be it fumbles (Ridley), drops (Bolden) or suckitude (Blount)
5) Lack of production from TE (at least this one should be solved now)

2nd half struggles are related to the fact that McD hates changing his gameplan even if it isn't working. He is very arrogant and it cost us Sb42. We have made the playoffs every year he has been here except 08? But no SB wins. You don't play NFL football for a 16-0 regular season or just to get into the playoffs. You play to get to and win the SB. On that front McD has failed.

 

[Harrisoned!]

2nd half struggles are related to the fact that McD hates changing his gameplan even if it isn't working. He is very arrogant and it cost us Sb42. We have made the playoffs every year he has been here except 08? But no SB wins. You don't play NFL football for a 16-0 regular season or just to get into the playoffs. You play to get to and win the SB. On that front McD has failed.

What an absurd standard. So only one offensive coordinator every year is any good? You'd really characterize Jim Caldwell as a good offensive coordinator, in that instance (he was the OC of the Ravens in the playoffs last year)?

I keep hearing this mantra that McDaniels is arrogant. I don't get it. Arrogance has nothing to do with play-calling. I also don't see much evidence that he refuses to change his gameplans. In fact, I thought he made some terrific in-game adjustments against both Tampa and Atlanta.

He's also failed to make good adjustments in other games - the two Jets games most specifically. But some of that is execution too. In the two Jets games, the Jets started pressing and jamming the box in the 2nd half. You cannot run it in that situation and you can't rely on short-area throws. We dialed up plenty of deep / intermediate passes on Sunday against that D, and Dobson in particular was beating the man coverage but Brady couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

 

[SVN]

Logan Mankins: Lapses hurting offensive line - ESPN Boston

"It's not all on us, but there is enough of it that is on us. The perfect example is the other night. We come out in the third quarter -- sack, sack -- a lot of that was on us. Mental assignments, guys just getting beat," Mankins said of the quarter in which the Jets took control of the game, erasing a 21-10 halftime deficit. "Whenever the line is not playing well, it's hard to score points."

The Patriots' starting line returned intact for 2013 with left tackle Nate Solder, left guard Mankins, center Ryan Wendell, right guard Dan Connolly and right tackle Sebastian Vollmer. Thus, expectations were high that the unit would be a strong point for the offense.

The results, however, have been uneven.

"The expectations start high in our room also. We expect a lot out of ourselves also [and] I think that's why we were disappointed after the game the other night," Mankins said. "We thought we played well until the end of the second [quarter] there. The third quarter was bad and then I thought we played better in the fourth quarter. But we had that lull right there in the third quarter that really hurt us, and hurt the team. We just can't play like that. ...

"There are times when we've played really well and times we've played really bad, like the other night, for a little stretch there, was just about as bad you can get. The thing is, everyone in that room wants to do it perfect. It's just not going to happen all the time; we're playing against good guys. The frustrating thing is when we do things wrong and that's the reason for a sack. We want to make them earn it and we didn't make them earn it every time."

Must be JMcD

 

[Brady6]

Logan Mankins: Lapses hurting offensive line - ESPN Boston



Must be JMcD

Nobody is putting 100% of the responsibility on McDaniel’s but come on this team is 20th in the NFL in points and 16th in yardage through the first 7 games of 2013 are you really suggesting that no accountability should be levied McDaniel’s way? We are blaming are left guard instead?

Let’s rewind a few years and compare this current offense to the offense that Bill O’Brien led to #1 in the NFL:

2010
QB: Brady; Hoyer
RB: Green-Ellis; Woodhead; Taylor; Clayton, Morris
WR: Welker; Branch; Tate; Price; Edelman; Slater
TE: Gronkowski (R); Hernandez (R); Crumpler
OL: Light; Vollmer; Koppen; Mankins; Ojinnaka; Ohrnberger; LeVoir; Wendell

2013
QB: Brady; Mallett
RB: Ridley; Vereen; Bolden; Blount; Washington
WR: Amendola; Edelman; Dobson (R); Thompkins (R); Boyce (R); Collie; Slater
TE: Gronkowski; Hoomanawanui; Mulligan
OL: Solder; Mankins; Wendell; Connolly; Vollmer; Cannon; Svitek; Barker

The team was not anymore talented, the offense was more balanced with 454 rushing attempts and 507 passing attempts, and it was more efficient and protected the football much better. You can blame any indivisual player you want but at the end of the day McDaniel’s is the offensive coordinator and if the offense is failing he should be the first person held accountable.

 

[Brady6]

Not McDaniels' fault that Brady has been overthrowing every pass longer than 25 yards all year.

No it is not Josh McDaniel’s fault that Brady is over throwing players, but it is Josh McDaniel’s fault that Brady is in the situation, Tom Brady has never been known as a gun slinger and his offensive coordinator should certainly be conscious of that and build an offense to his strengths. Brady is a surgical quarterback, he makes throws in tight windows that most other quarterbacks cannot make, that is his game his is efficient and puts the football in the spot where his receiver can gain yards after the catch, he can make the downfield throw to keep the defense honest but without a physical freak like Randy Moss able to win 1on1 battles he is playing outside of his strengths throwing 20+ yards. If McDaniel’s wants Brady to be the quarterback that threw for 50 touchdowns in 2007 he should sit down with Belichick work out some trades the types of receivers he had in 2007, right now though he should open his ******* eyes and build an offense that plays towards Brady’s strengths, sort of like offense O’Brien deployed in 2010, short and intermediate passes built around precision and efficiency.

You do know Brady most times is throwing to a spot correct? If the player cannot get to the spot it might look like he over threw them but that doesn’t mean the perception is reality.

 

[SVN]

Nobody is putting 100% of the responsibility on McDaniel’s but come on this team is 20th in the NFL in points and 16th in yardage through the first 7 games of 2013 are you really suggesting that no accountability should be levied McDaniel’s way? We are blaming are left guard instead?

Let’s rewind a few years and compare this current offense to the offense that Bill O’Brien led to #1 in the NFL:

2010
QB: Brady; Hoyer
RB: Green-Ellis; Woodhead; Taylor; Clayton, Morris
WR: Welker; Branch; Tate; Price; Edelman; Slater
TE: Gronkowski (R); Hernandez (R); Crumpler
OL: Light; Vollmer; Koppen; Mankins; Ojinnaka; Ohrnberger; LeVoir; Wendell

2013
QB: Brady; Mallett
RB: Ridley; Vereen; Bolden; Blount; Washington
WR: Amendola; Edelman; Dobson (R); Thompkins (R); Boyce (R); Collie; Slater
TE: Gronkowski; Hoomanawanui; Mulligan
OL: Solder; Mankins; Wendell; Connolly; Vollmer; Cannon; Svitek; Barker

The team was not anymore talented, the offense was more balanced with 454 rushing attempts and 507 passing attempts, and it was more efficient and protected the football much better. You can blame any indivisual player you want but at the end of the day McDaniel’s is the offensive coordinator and if the offense is failing he should be the first person held accountable.

Stop twisting my words. I always maintained everyone is responsible including bb and brady, except you just throw out offensive stats and rushing stats and his drafts from all over the place and keep on just blaming him. You want to look at bad OC , go look at the minn OC from monday night. That is a bad offensive coordinator.
And your comparison is way way off anyway. Gronk/hernandez,welker,woodhead > all the WR we have played this yr SO FAR. We are not a 2 TE offense anymore which allows a lot of balanced rushing and passing with virtually the same crew. We didnt HAVE any TE's since last week.
Not saying these guys arent capable but its no comparison having a team and QB with chemistry and continuity vs injuries and rookies . you can keep throwing **** at JMcD and leave everyone else off the hook. I wont.

 

[SVN]

No it is not Josh McDaniel’s fault that Brady is over throwing players, but it is Josh McDaniel’s fault that Brady is in the situation, Tom Brady has never been known as a gun slinger and his offensive coordinator should certainly be conscious of that and build an offense to his strengths. Brady is a surgical quarterback, he makes throws in tight windows that most other quarterbacks cannot make, that is his game his is efficient and puts the football in the spot where his receiver can gain yards after the catch, he can make the downfield throw to keep the defense honest but without a physical freak like Randy Moss able to win 1on1 battles he is playing outside of his strengths throwing 20+ yards. If McDaniel’s wants Brady to be the quarterback that threw for 50 touchdowns in 2007 he should sit down with Belichick work out some trades the types of receivers he had in 2007, right now though he should open his ******* eyes and build an offense that plays towards Brady’s strengths, sort of like offense O’Brien deployed in 2010, short and intermediate passes built around precision and efficiency.

You do know Brady most times is throwing to a spot correct? If the player cannot get to the spot it might look like he over threw them but that doesn’t mean the perception is reality.

If you are going to defend brady for his play and the WR for their drops and put it all on JMcD no one can argue with you anymore. you win. enjoy.

 

[Brady6]

Stop twisting my words. I always maintained everyone is responsible including bb and brady, except you just throw out offensive stats and rushing stats and his drafts from all over the place and keep on just blaming him. You want to look at bad OC , go look at the minn OC from monday night. That is a bad offensive coordinator.
And your comparison is way way off anyway. Gronk/hernandez,welker,woodhead > all the WR we have played this yr SO FAR. We are not a 2 TE offense anymore which allows a lot of balanced rushing and passing with virtually the same crew. We didnt HAVE any TE's since last week.
Not saying these guys arent capable but its no comparison having a team and QB with chemistry and continuity vs injuries and rookies . you can keep throwing **** at JMcD and leave everyone else off the hook. I wont.

I did not intend to twist your words and I apologize if that is how it was perceived. I misread what you were saying it appeared as if you were giving McDaniel’s a complete pass on this, I do agree that there are many factors causing to the poor offensive play it is my personal opinion that McDaniel’s is the leading factor but just the same there are certainly other factors as well.

As far as not being a 2 tight end offense anymore that is so overblown in my opinion, we haven’t been a 2 tight end offense since the first quarter of week 2 last year. Hernandez suffered the ankle injury and we never had them both on the field together again at with the exception of week 17 when Gronkowski barely played and was clearly not 100%. If we were coming off 2011 I could sit here all day and buy into the 2 tight end thing but 2012 to 2013 that just is not the case.

 

[Brady6]

If you are going to defend brady for his play and the WR for their drops and put it all on JMcD no one can argue with you anymore. you win. enjoy.

I am not defending the wide receivers for their drops, I am defending Brady for his overthrows, because first I question if they’re actual overthrows and second because it is not his game. McDaniel’s needs to stop trying to duplicate the offense of 2007, first of all defenses aren’t the same as they were 6+ years ago, Brady is not 28 years old, and Dobson, Thompkins and Amendola are not Moss, Stallworth and Welker. If he can get that through his thick head and see that he does have some pieces to work with it will just be a different scheme this offense can get back on track, if McDaniel’s keeps living in the past we are going to be in the bottom 16 of offenses all year.

 

[SVN]

I am not defending the wide receivers for their drops, I am defending Brady for his overthrows, because first I question if they’re actual overthrows and second because it is not his game. McDaniel’s needs to stop trying to duplicate the offense of 2007, first of all defenses aren’t the same as they were 6+ years ago, Brady is not 28 years old, and Dobson, Thompkins and Amendola are not Moss, Stallworth and Welker. If he can get that through his thick head and see that he does have some pieces to work with it will just be a different scheme this offense can get back on track, if McDaniel’s keeps living in the past we are going to be in the bottom 16 of offenses all year.

Sure.whatever. you win. JMcD sucks.

 

[SVN]

I did not intend to twist your words and I apologize if that is how it was perceived. I misread what you were saying it appeared as if you were giving McDaniel’s a complete pass on this, I do agree that there are many factors causing to the poor offensive play it is my personal opinion that McDaniel’s is the leading factor but just the same there are certainly other factors as well.

As far as not being a 2 tight end offense anymore that is so overblown in my opinion, we haven’t been a 2 tight end offense since the first quarter of week 2 last year. Hernandez suffered the ankle injury and we never had them both on the field together again at with the exception of week 17 when Gronkowski barely played and was clearly not 100%. If we were coming off 2011 I could sit here all day and buy into the 2 tight end thing but 2012 to 2013 that just is not the case.

you compared bill o brien's team vs this and now turn around and say we werent an 2 TE offense last yr either when josh was the OC so it did work out well with josh without the 2 TE's didnt it ?. anyways....I dont have anything else to argue with if you are so strongly opinionated against one person as the biggest flaw in a team game who doesnt even step on the field.

 

[Brady6]

Re: Re: Is Josh McDaniels any good?

Sure.whatever. you win. JMcD sucks.

Its nothing to be upset we can just agree to disagree. Its really not an issue. I'm not high on McDaniel's you like him. I am sure we both have are reasons let's just leave it at that and move on.:beer:

 

[SVN]

Its nothing to be upset we can just agree to disagree. Its really not an issue. I'm not high on McDaniel's you like him. I am sure we both have are reasons let's just leave it at that and move on.:beer:

Not upset. Just tired of one sided arguments .

 

[moejr]

What an absurd standard. So only one offensive coordinator every year is any good? You'd really characterize Jim Caldwell as a good offensive coordinator, in that instance (he was the OC of the Ravens in the playoffs last year)?

I keep hearing this mantra that McDaniels is arrogant. I don't get it. Arrogance has nothing to do with play-calling. I also don't see much evidence that he refuses to change his gameplans. In fact, I thought he made some terrific in-game adjustments against both Tampa and Atlanta.

He's also failed to make good adjustments in other games - the two Jets games most specifically. But some of that is execution too. In the two Jets games, the Jets started pressing and jamming the box in the 2nd half. You cannot run it in that situation and you can't rely on short-area throws. We dialed up plenty of deep / intermediate passes on Sunday against that D, and Dobson in particular was beating the man coverage but Brady couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

I didn't say that. I said McD has failed to help us win a SB win because of his poor play calling in games. He has no imagination. No play that he can call and no team has seen before. He does the same thing over and over. When the head coach tells you to get your head in the game you're not doing your job.

 

[Sticky Caulk]

I didn't say that. I said McD has failed to help us win a SB win because of his poor play calling in games. He has no imagination. No play that he can call and no team has seen before. He does the same thing over and over. When the head coach tells you to get your head in the game you're not doing your job.

Isn't that the opposite of reality? McDaniels has too much imagination, if anything. A pass play to the LT as a TE on the goal line being one example of that.

The Patriots offense needs to run more. That's obvious to the coaches at this point. Beyond that, execution is the only thing holding them back.

 

[Brady6]

Re: Re: Is Josh McDaniels any good?

Isn't that the opposite of reality? McDaniels has too much imagination, if anything. A pass play to the LT as a TE on the goal line being one example of that.

The Patriots offense needs to run more. That's obvious to the coaches at this point. Beyond that, execution is the only thing holding them back.

Solder as a tight end actually began in 2011 under Bill O'Brien when Solder was a rookie, the reasoning behind is that Solder was once a tight end and out grew the position.

 

[Sticky Caulk]

Solder as a tight end actually began in 2011 under Bill O'Brien when Solder was a rookie, the reasoning behind is that Solder was once a tight end and out grew the position.

The key is 'grew out of the position'.

Just like Edelman shouldn't be throwing the ball, Solder shouldn't be running routes.