Opportunity is knocking - Michael Buchanan

[Brady6]

I see the Wilfork injury as an excellent opportunity for Buchanan, I envision Jones spending a lot more time inside which will open up time at RE for Buchanan who has shown some flashes in his first 4 NFL games.

http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/playercard?playerId=15959&src=desktop

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/michae...ional-pass-rusher-england-144700517--nfl.html

http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports...hat-theyve-seen-so-far-from-michael-buchanan/

 

[Ozymandias]

So far, he's greatly outperformed his draft position. A lot of our resident draftniks aren't surprised by this at all, as they stated he would've been drafted way, way higher than he did if not for his character concerns.

Buchanan could become the 2013 Dennard-esque diamond-in-the-rough. I love his potential, and playing along side an animal like Jones is a great way to get good fast.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Really liked his style so far this year

 

[andrewgarrr]

Jones is the best outside pass-rusher on the team. I don't want to see him playing inside.

 

[Sciz]

Jones is the best outside pass-rusher on the team. I don't want to see him playing inside.

He's also probably the best interior rusher, and pressure up the middle often disrupts QBs more than pressure around the edge. And in a way, Buchanan's style of getting around the corner but typically too deep actually works out well because it means the QB can't just back up to get away from Jones coming up the middle.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Jones is the best outside pass-rusher on the team. I don't want to see him playing inside.

Under normal circumstances I agree. Unfortunately at this moment in time the Patriots have a big ??? on the DL. Vince was the linchpin of this unit's run stopping ability. With Vince gone the DL, for the time being, is going to have to be mixed and matched until a match can be found that stops the run to a semi respectable degree. And as much as I prefer not to see Jones playing inside, I prefer even more not to see opposing run offenses gouging the D (which typically provides a high percentage chance to lose a game). So if achieving semi respectable run D means Jones must play some inside then I want him playing some inside. I'm sure it's not going to be a permanent thing but it may have to be a permanent 2013 thing. Stay tuned.......

 

[Leemo]

Jones is the best outside pass-rusher on the team. I don't want to see him playing inside.

While I understand your view, check the stats, Chandler has lined up at DT quite a bit already this season. He's also done a great job inside.

I agree with the OP. Get Buchanon on, this will give us the best chance of winning. I also hope to see more of Jamie Collins.

 

[Brady6]

Jones is the best outside pass-rusher on the team. I don't want to see him playing inside.

I think you raise an excellent point here, I actually see it as a something worthy of its own thread. Jones is far and wide are best edge rusher so having him inside is not ideal, the problem is outside of maybe Jake Bequette I do not think that anyone else has size and strength to play the 3tech position on passing downs, Ninkovich, Buchanan, Collins and anyone else we’d use as a down lineman would not be effective inside so it lands us with a tough decision.

Jones is effective inside I believe he applies pressure in the forum of a hurry, hit or sack in the neighborhood of 50% - 60% of the time over the first 4 weeks of the season when lined up at the 3tech DT position, so yes we lose him on the edge but at least he is providing us tremendous contributions just the same.

Like I said great point made here, I guess to broaden my OP the question could be are we better off with Jones at DT with Buchanan having an opportunity or are we best off keeping are best edge rusher at RE and giving the opportunity left by Wilfork to someone like Vellano. I think we will see a mix of both until someone either steps up, in addition to that hopefully Armstead is able to play this season and contribute.

 

[PatsFan37]

I'd be concerned with Jones inside / Buchanan outside on early downs, early in the game when run/pass are equally likely or run is more likely. I'd rather see a bigger DT inside and Jones outside because Jones is terrific at setting the edge and getting TFL's. I don't see Buchanan succeeding in that role - in fact I can imagine the Bengals would audible to a run right at him.

Without Wilfork, they need to keep the overall weight and strength at the LOS as high as possible, not reduce it further.

 

[Oswlek]

Jones is the best outside pass-rusher on the team. I don't want to see him playing inside.

Jones is also the best inside pass-rusher on the team. :confused2:

 

[Brady6]

He's also probably the best interior rusher, and pressure up the middle often disrupts QBs more than pressure around the edge. And in a way, Buchanan's style of getting around the corner but typically too deep actually works out well because it means the QB can't just back up to get away from Jones coming up the middle.

Your assessment is something I have not heard before about Buchanan getting around the corner to deep being beneficial, I had this “wow he is dead on” moment when I read this. With Wilfork out it changes the dynamic of this defense completely, we will likely have to rely mainly on even fronts and despite the fact I 100% agree with the other poster that Jones is are best edge rusher I still believe in an even front the best line up is:

LE – Ninkovich | DT – Kelly | DT – C. Jones | RE – Buchanan

I think we all hope that Armstead returns in week 8 allowing us to use Jones outside more and also allowing us to run what I feel would be the most effective pass rushing front 4 with:

LE – Ninkovich | DT – Armstead | DT – C. Jones | RE – Buchanan

I love Ninkovich but if Bequette could actually play to his imagine a front 4 of all 22-24 year old 6’5+ 270+ pound players getting after the QB on 3rd and long, that gives me a Giselle in a bikini type feeling :love:

 

[cavtroop]

What are the chances we'll see more 3-4 moving forward? something like this


Collins | Hightower | Mayo | Ninkovich

Jones | Kelly | Buchanon

 

[pencilneckgeek]

I think you raise an excellent point here, I actually see it as a something worthy of its own thread. Jones is far and wide are best edge rusher so having him inside is not ideal, the problem is outside of maybe Jake Bequette I do not think that anyone else has size and strength to play the 3tech position on passing downs, Ninkovich, Buchanan, Collins and anyone else we’d use as a down lineman would not be effective inside so it lands us with a tough decision.

Jones is effective inside I believe he applies pressure in the forum of a hurry, hit or sack in the neighborhood of 50% - 60% of the time over the first 4 weeks of the season when lined up at the 3tech DT position, so yes we lose him on the edge but at least he is providing us tremendous contributions just the same.

Like I said great point made here, I guess to broaden my OP the question could be are we better off with Jones at DT with Buchanan having an opportunity or are we best off keeping are best edge rusher at RE and giving the opportunity left by Wilfork to someone like Vellano. I think we will see a mix of both until someone either steps up, in addition to that hopefully Armstead is able to play this season and contribute.

I'd be concerned with Jones inside / Buchanan outside on early downs, early in the game when run/pass are equally likely or run is more likely. I'd rather see a bigger DT inside and Jones outside because Jones is terrific at setting the edge and getting TFL's. I don't see Buchanan succeeding in that role - in fact I can imagine the Bengals would audible to a run right at him.

Without Wilfork, they need to keep the overall weight and strength at the LOS as high as possible, not reduce it further.

Buchanon actually did a decent job of setting the edge in pre-season (albeit against 2nd string OLs). I'm less concerned with that than with Jones at 3Tech getting beat by a help block from the tackle (or lead blocker/move TE) to help the guard start him moving backward, before moving on to engage at the 2nd level. I'm not confident that Jones can hold-up at that position over the full game.

I think it much more likely that we see Vellano or Jones with Kelly at DT on early downs, or perhaps a 3-4, where Jones is at 5tech with Hightower and Nink at the end of the line. Buchanon gets more snaps than previously, but I don't think he sees a big jump in playing time. The run game is far too important for Cincinatti for us to be putting our best pass rusher inside, where Jones gets beat up for two downs before having to do what he's best at. Unlike the DT rotation, he doesn't get much time off. Subjecting him to double teams and 1.5-teams on early downs is a good way to make him completely ineffective at what we need him most for late in the game.

Buchanon will ge this chance next week against the Saints.

 

[Brady6]

What are the chances we'll see more 3-4 moving forward? something like this


Collins | Hightower | Mayo | Ninkovich

Jones | Kelly | Buchanon

As far as Jones and Buchanan in a 34 as DE’s I think we’d get ran all over. Maybe you could do it against a team that is pass heavy in games that you were up and knew the other team had to throw the ball to get back in the game.

 

[ausbacker]

What are the chances we'll see more 3-4 moving forward? something like this


Collins | Hightower | Mayo | Ninkovich

Jones | Kelly | Buchanon

Jones and Buchanon are far too small to play as full time 3-4 defensive ends cavtroop. Realistically, they'd need to be Tommy Kelly's size to hold up against the run and defend double gap assignments.

Getting Armstead back will help given his size. Hopefully he's the talent we all hope he is.

 

[Ring 6]

Under normal circumstances I agree. Unfortunately at this moment in time the Patriots have a big ??? on the DL. Vince was the linchpin of this unit's run stopping ability. With Vince gone the DL, for the time being, is going to have to be mixed and matched until a match can be found that stops the run to a semi respectable degree. And as much as I prefer not to see Jones playing inside, I prefer even more not to see opposing run offenses gouging the D (which typically provides a high percentage chance to lose a game). So if achieving semi respectable run D means Jones must play some inside then I want him playing some inside. I'm sure it's not going to be a permanent thing but it may have to be a permanent 2013 thing. Stay tuned.......

I dont think Jones at DT has anything to do with run D. He will certainly struggle if asked to play there on running downs.
His use at DT has been, and I suspect will continue to be, exclusively in pass only situaitons where he has no responsibility except to beat a G and rush the passer.
Jones at DT to defend the run will mean we are much more likely to get gashed.

 

[Ring 6]

I think you raise an excellent point here, I actually see it as a something worthy of its own thread. Jones is far and wide are best edge rusher so having him inside is not ideal, the problem is outside of maybe Jake Bequette I do not think that anyone else has size and strength to play the 3tech position on passing downs, Ninkovich, Buchanan, Collins and anyone else we’d use as a down lineman would not be effective inside so it lands us with a tough decision.

Jones is effective inside I believe he applies pressure in the forum of a hurry, hit or sack in the neighborhood of 50% - 60% of the time over the first 4 weeks of the season when lined up at the 3tech DT position, so yes we lose him on the edge but at least he is providing us tremendous contributions just the same.

Like I said great point made here, I guess to broaden my OP the question could be are we better off with Jones at DT with Buchanan having an opportunity or are we best off keeping are best edge rusher at RE and giving the opportunity left by Wilfork to someone like Vellano. I think we will see a mix of both until someone either steps up, in addition to that hopefully Armstead is able to play this season and contribute.

I think you see Vellano and Jones taking Wilfork snaps.
Jones has already played DT in passing situations and will continue to, but it will be limited to that.
It is possible that we use the rush package more liberally and risk being run on on some 2nd downs, but I'd guess not since we will be perceived in general as more susceptible to the run without VW.

 

[Fencer]

Outside rushing puts more of a premium on speed and less on power than inside rushing, and vice-versa. So I see no reason to doubt what results seem to be saying, namely that Jones is at least as good at inside rushing as outside.

The only reason not to have Jones inside permanently is the rather big -- as it were -- matter of run defense.