Why did this team sign Tebow?

[Armchair Quarterback]

I was just as upfront with people there as I have been here at Patsfans. Tebow brought me here, to be sure, but I root for the team. As time goes by, ties will get deeper, the same way it happens with many others.

Until a week or so from now when he's cut and you'll no longer root for the team. You'll pack up and move on and latch on to whatever comes next. What conviction, what character.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

I doubt this. I think he looks natural. I've seen film of him in high school and now recent. Comparing the progression. I am suspicious of some other guys but not Tebow. But I'm definitely not getting the sense that Tebow is a user.

Well you come off as completely impartial, so if you say he clean, he must be clean.

 

[chasa]

I was just as upfront with people there as I have been here at Patsfans. Tebow brought me here, to be sure, but I root for the team. As time goes by, ties will get deeper, the same way it happens with many others.

You're a parasite. Tebowitis.

 

[Demosthenes]

Based on that I would expect you to be more of a fan of a guy like Russell Wilson, 5’11 200lb quarterback who offers rare athleticism for a QB, he is defies conventional wisdom more than Tebow by most accounts. It also appears on some level this defiance of conventional wisdom is what many GM and coaches are looking for in their next QB; in addition to Wilson, players like Robert Griffin III, Collin Kaepernick, Cam Newton, Geno Smith, and EJ Manuel are all players who have been drafted in early rounds in the last 3 drafts that do not fit into that prototypical mold of a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. What I’m trying to convey is I understand and even relate with your enjoyment for these types of QB’s, I just don’t understand why given all those other names Tebow is the one that appears to consume your attention the most.

Couple of points. First, Geno Smith wasn't a running QB or a dual threat. He helmed an Airraid offense at WV. Secondly, Smith, Kaep, Wilson and Manuel didn't come close to reaching the heights that Tebow did in college. Cam and RG3 came the closest in my opinion, but their big college successes were in single seasons as opposed to being over their entire college career.

There's other things I could single out. One of which would be SEC bias coupled with exposure/familiarity. Tebow was an every day, every week thing for 4 years. Baylor wasn't on the national scene really until RG3's Junior year after which he entered the draft. Cam had his one and done at Auburn. You "heard" about both of them as their names were thrown out there now and then, but no where near to the same extent. Kaep was out there playing in Nevada in the WAC. He was very much under the radar to even avid college football fans.

Another thing to note are the "intangibles", how much of an impact those have and how they rate in my opinion. Cam, RG3 and Kaep are better athletes than Tebow. That's a given. Cam takes a serious knock in my book in the intangibles. From what I can tell at a distance, he comes across as an immature, self centered guy. RG3 seems to be pretty much the opposite. I like the way he carries himself and I like his attitude. Wilson comes across the same way. Kaep ? I'm not so sure. Had some questions about him before, and his new commercials certainly don't help in that regard.

BTW, you might not know this, but I didn't like Tebow at first. He played for Florida, a team I despised (and still do unless it's Bowl time). I sat through all the hype about him when he was signed. I watched as he came in now and then during his freshman year and said WTF is all the hype about ? All he does is run for 2/3 yards.

Over the course of the 4 years, my opinion changed, somewhat grudgingly.

 

[Rookie]

You're a parasite. Tebowitis.

:rocker:

Synonyms for parasite:

barnacle
bloodsucker
bootlicker
deadbeat
dependent
flunky
freeloader
groupie
hanger-on
idler
leech
scrounger
sponge
stooge
sucker
sycophant
taker

 

[sb1]

I doubt this. I think he looks natural. I've seen film of him in high school and now recent. Comparing the progression. I am suspicious of some other guys but not Tebow. But I'm definitely not getting the sense that Tebow is a user.

Well... maybe a little surprised if he's using now but definitely not surprised if it's shown he was a user at one time even going back to high school.

Just looking at his cut, jawline and his body type he either always was a freak of nature or he absolutely is a PED candidate. IMO.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Well... maybe a little surprised if he's using now but definitely not surprised if it's shown he was a user at one time even going back to high school.

Just looking at his cut, jawline and his body type he either always was a freak of nature or he absolutely is a PED candidate. IMO.

I suspect that he's not a user, and certainly don't hope that he is, but I've gotta admit that it would be pretty funny watching the sports media implode on itself as it tried to digest/spin/rationalize Tebow as a juicer.

 

[Demosthenes]

Sabermetrics has come up a number of times, and I guess I feel like Billy Beane from Moneyball.

Sabermetric stats are useless in football. There's a reason why football doesn't have a Billy Beane and never will.

It's too much of a team sport and there are way too many variables and 1-on-many matchups that go on in a game at the same time for those kinds of stats to have any tangible meaning.

It's not even close to the same as baseball which is much simpler, a sequence of of one on one matchups.

Yes an no. Why did Sabermetrics even come about ? Because guys in baseball were looking at certain characteristics/stats and basing their decisions off of them. In short, it was baseball's "conventional wisdom". Sabermetrics went against that.

"Conventional wisdom" is also prevalent in the NFL, only in a slightly different form. You MUST be X tall and weigh Y amount to play at a given position. Look at Russell Wilson, one of the reasons he went low in the draft because @ 5'11" he doesn't have the "prototypical" QB Height.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Couple of points. First, Geno Smith wasn't a running QB or a dual threat. He helmed an Airraid offense at WV. Secondly, Smith, Kaep, Wilson and Manuel didn't come close to reaching the heights that Tebow did in college. Cam and RG3 came the closest in my opinion, but their big college successes were in single seasons as opposed to being over their entire college career.

There's other things I could single out. One of which would be SEC bias coupled with exposure/familiarity. Tebow was an every day, every week thing for 4 years. Baylor wasn't on the national scene really until RG3's Junior year after which he entered the draft. Cam had his one and done at Auburn. You "heard" about both of them as their names were thrown out there now and then, but no where near to the same extent. Kaep was out there playing in Nevada in the WAC. He was very much under the radar to even avid college football fans.

Another thing to note are the "intangibles", how much of an impact those have and how they rate in my opinion. Cam, RG3 and Kaep are better athletes than Tebow. That's a given. Cam takes a serious knock in my book in the intangibles. From what I can tell at a distance, he comes across as an immature, self centered guy. RG3 seems to be pretty much the opposite. I like the way he carries himself and I like his attitude. Wilson comes across the same way. Kaep ? I'm not so sure. Had some questions about him before, and his new commercials certainly don't help in that regard.

BTW, you might not know this, but I didn't like Tebow at first. He played for Florida, a team I despised (and still do unless it's Bowl time). I sat through all the hype about him when he was signed. I watched as he came in now and then during his freshman year and said WTF is all the hype about ? All he does is run for 2/3 yards.

Over the course of the 4 years, my opinion changed, somewhat grudgingly.

I dunno if that's fair, tbh. I've seen him be ridiculed for celebrating too much and for being too sullen in the same week. Seems like he came into the league on an absolutely terrible team, playing for the worst-GMed team since the Matt Millen Lions (blew a ridiculous percentage of their cap on RBs, didn't even end up with good RBs). At the time, the consensus was that he was no Andrew Luck and would fail in the NFL. He has since defied that expectation over and over again, so the goalpost has been shifted to "he's a failure because his team fails".

To that, I would counter that he's in an impossible situation. I don't think any young quarterback in the NFL makes the playoffs with that supporting cast and that schedule. Not Luck, not Griffin, not Wilson, not Kaepernick, not Stafford, not Bradford, etc. etc.

We know that he can produce and he can almost singlehandedly keep his team in games. He may or may not be able to be the centerpiece of a winning culture: we just don't know that yet, and the evidence to the contrary is flimsy to say the least. FFS, Aaron Rodgers gets as much criticism from his former teammates as Newton does.

 

[sb1]

Yes an no. Why did Sabermetrics even come about ? Because guys in baseball were looking at certain characteristics/stats and basing their decisions off of them. In short, it was baseball's "conventional wisdom". Sabermetrics went against that.

"Conventional wisdom" is also prevalent in the NFL, only in a slightly different form. You MUST be X tall and weigh Y amount to play at a given position. Look at Russell Wilson, one of the reasons he went low in the draft because @ 5'11" he doesn't have the "prototypical" QB Height.

I agree with the idea of "thinking out of the box" when it comes to evaluating a player or a player's performance, but there's a reason why nobody has come up with a football equivalent of sabermetrics.

Case in point: QB completes a pass and gets credit for such in the form of a "stat". We can use as many mathematical formulas on that stat as we want, the results are still based on the same stat. That stat doesn't tell us whether the QB was the guy responsible for the completed pass, or if was the receiver, or if it was the total OL that bought him time, or if it was the RG in particular that blocked an incoming blitzer, or the RB that did that, or if it was a mistake on defense that let him complete the pass, or if the pass was intended for someone else and it got tipped and receiver caught the ball.... there are way too many variables that go into a stat and that's why we'll never see such a thing in football. So do these "out of the box" numbers really tell us anything?

Another case in point: You weren't a Patriots fan but I assume you heard of 4th and 2 against the Colts. Mathematically and statistically it was the "right" call. But does that mean every coach should do it?

Baseball is not really a true team sport and definitely not nearly to the degree that football is, therefore it's much more sensible to have such a system in that sport.

 

[Demosthenes]

I dunno if that's fair, tbh. I've seen him be ridiculed for celebrating too much and for being too sullen in the same week. Seems like he came into the league on an absolutely terrible team, playing for the worst-GMed team since the Matt Millen Lions (blew a ridiculous percentage of their cap on RBs, didn't even end up with good RBs). At the time, the consensus was that he was no Andrew Luck and would fail in the NFL. He has since defied that expectation over and over again, so the goalpost has been shifted to "he's a failure because his team fails".

To that, I would counter that he's in an impossible situation. I don't think any young quarterback in the NFL makes the playoffs with that supporting cast and that schedule. Not Luck, not Griffin, not Wilson, not Kaepernick, not Stafford, not Bradford, etc. etc.

I'm not basing my opinion off his won/loss record. Part of it is based on two of the things you just said. When he celebrates, it's all about him. When things aren't going well, he sits on the bench with the towel over his head and he sulks.

I guess in a way, he's kind of like a QB version of Terrell Owens. I could be wrong about this. As I said, it's "viewing from a distance". Even if I'm right, it could just be an immaturity thing that he might outgrow, as opposed to something more ingrained.

here's something that speaks to it:

Steve Smith Unhappy With Cam Newton: Panthers WR Says He Called Out QB During Loss To Giants

Steve Smith Unhappy With Cam Newton: Panthers WR Says He Called Out QB During Loss To Giants

CHARLOTTE, N.C. — Panthers receiver Steve Smith says he" lit into" Cam Newton about his actions on the sideline when the young quarterback was replaced late in the fourth quarter of Thursday night's 36-7 blowout loss to the New York Giants.

Smith said he was upset when Newton sat sulking on the bench instead of getting up to watch backup Derek Anderson and trying to learn from his own mistakes.

As a team captain and the elder statesman of the team, Smith felt something needed to be said to the 23-year old Newton about the importance of remaining positive and better handling adversity.

"I don't want to be passive and not do it because if I don't do it, who will?" Smith said. "The same way with my son, I can't expect somebody else (to do that). So yeah, I lit into him because I thought it was an opportunity for him to see and understand what was going on. This is more than about playing football. It's about becoming a man and understanding what this is."

 

[Demosthenes]

I agree with the idea of "thinking out of the box" when it comes to evaluating a player or a player's performance, but there's a reason why nobody has come up with a football equivalent of sabermetrics.

Case in point: QB completes a pass and gets credit for such in the form of a "stat". That stat doesn't tell us whether the QB was the guy responsible for the completed pass, or if was the receiver, or if it was the total OL that bought him time, or if it was the RG in particular that blocked an incoming blitzer, or the RB that did that, or if it was a mistake on defense that let him complete the pass, or if the pass was intended for someone else and it got tipped and receiver caught the ball.... there are way too many variables that go into a stat and that's why we'll never see such a thing in football. So do these "out of the box" numbers really mean anything?

Baseball is not really a team sport nearly to the degree that football is, therefore it's much easier to come up with such a system in that sport.

I get what you are saying and I agree for the most part. But you are focused on the details of Sabermetrics (the numbers/stats) while I'm talking about the underlying philosophy of it and why it was developed.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I was just as upfront with people there as I have been here at Patsfans. Tebow brought me here, to be sure, but I root for the team. As time goes by, ties will get deeper, the same way it happens with many others.

Look Demosthenes I don't support the namecalling but if that were true wouldn't you still be either a Bronco's fan or a Jets fan?


If you remain a Patriot's fan after they release Tebow that's great but you should certainly understand the skepticism when you have changed team allegiance three times in three years, and all three times went to rivals (although it's hard to classify a team that sucks as much as the jets a 'rival," however they are still in the east so technically speaking........)

 

[Huckleberry1]

I believe there is a sabermetric for QB's sucking, it's called 3 and out, and Tebow is a worldbeater in that category.

 

[Oinko]

TIME FOR A BIG PICTURE STATEMENT:

1. Overall, I'm pretty pleased with the reception by Patriots fans here at this forum. There's been a real class shown by many that was like a breath of fresh air. There are probably 5 or 6 irrational, obsessed Tebow-haters (or who simply don't assimilate words well, and can't really see what's being said) who are genuinely off-putting. But I try to remind myself, "you know, every time you're spotting the flawed reasoning, the obsession, the emotional backlash, there are 100 other Patriots fans thinking the same thing. No need to jump and contest everything or point all this out." So kudos to the Patriots fans.

2. I think I'm a "poster boy" for Tebow fans, very representative, and we know he's not a world-beater. We see the same things his detractors do -- it hasn't been good out there. The concerns about his throwing ability are valid, and he doesn't deserve any favors. At this point, he's a project or a cut. An offense tailored to his skills could be effective in this league, and he can get better. But the question is whether he's good enough to be worth that effort -- and that is up to BB.

3. No matter what happens, for the first time I feel like he really got a chance here in New England. An environment that was supportive, with good instruction, and without the waters being muddied about starting him and learning on the job. I think this would be a perfect place for him to red shirt. But if they end having to cut him, there will be no excuses on my part. All NFL careers come to an end at some point. Most of them end like this. If they keep him, I know the Patriots will benefit from having him on the team, I just know it.

4. I'm a little disappointed at all the obsession over that 53rd spot. That's always a tough call, and the coaches have to decide what they think they need. A 3rd QB always displaces another position player, and most 3rd QB's are a wasted roster spot in some sense. To see fans here saying "My main thing is I cherish that 53rd roster spot" is a little bit non-productive. If the coaching staff thinks they can work Tebow into a backfill for Mallet, he's worth that 53rd spot. REasonable people can disagree, but it's kind of disingenuous to act like that's the issue.

 

[g8orballboy]

Based on that I would expect you to be more of a fan of a guy like Russell Wilson, 5’11 200lb quarterback who offers rare athleticism for a QB, he is defies conventional wisdom more than Tebow by most accounts. It also appears on some level this defiance of conventional wisdom is what many GM and coaches are looking for in their next QB; in addition to Wilson, players like Robert Griffin III, Collin Kaepernick, Cam Newton, Geno Smith, and EJ Manuel are all players who have been drafted in early rounds in the last 3 drafts that do not fit into that prototypical mold of a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. What I’m trying to convey is I understand and even relate with your enjoyment for these types of QB’s, I just don’t understand why given all those other names Tebow is the one that appears to consume your attention the most.

I enjoy all of those other QBs (especially Wilson) and Love what they're doing in this league and how they're changing the dynamic. The reason I like Tebow more is because I worked with him as a manager at UF and just think he's a really amazing guy... one that got me a National Championship ring. Obviously I'd have a bias towards him and want him to succeed.

I'm sure each fan of Tebow has their reasons for why they like him... who are you to judge and/or care why that is?

 

[Demosthenes]

Look Demosthenes I don't support the namecalling but if that were true wouldn't you still be either a Bronco's fan or a Jets fan?


If you remain a Patriot's fan after they release Tebow that's great but you should certainly understand the skepticism when you have changed team allegiance three times in three years, and all three times went to rivals (although it's hard to classify a team that sucks as much as the jets a 'rival," however they are still in the east so technically speaking........)

Ivan, no, I wouldn't still be either a Jets fan or a Broncos fan because the "relationship" didn't last long enough to build those lasting ties.

I understand the skepticism and I'm fine with it. What I take issue with is the holier than though folks on their high horse who scream about "New England Sports culture" and some other bull**** like that.

The fact is, the Pats acquire new fans each and every year, and those fans come to the team through various paths. You can read through some of the "How did you become a Pats fan" threads and see this very thing. Sure, some are born into the fold. Others come here because they moved to NE. But there are still others who come here for other reasons.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Why did this team sign Tebow?

Damned if I know...

 

[Demosthenes]

Why did this team sign Tebow?

Damned if I know...

Maybe Bill developed a sense of humor somewhere along the line and he decided to troll the fan base just for kicks ?

 

[larryo]

Maybe Bill developed a sense of humor somewhere along the line and he decided to troll the fan base just for kicks ?

Belichick has a great sense of humor according to many players. Past and present. I do agree with the troll thought. He's trolling the media. You're an amateur in every sense of the word compared to Belichick.