Why did this team sign Tebow?

[Huckleberry1]

In this situation - yup pretty much. The 5 SBs Belichick has led us too to my mind earns him the benefit of the doubt, an honour none of you seem to want to give him.

People are letting their dislike for Tebow colour their thinking. No consideration for BBs abilities in this thread and the NYJ have suddenly transformed into a role model on how to assess a QB's ability in this thread and this thread alone.

Reading through this thread, when it comes to assessing QB talent, it's NYJ good, Bill Belichick bad. The Tebow effect I suppose.

Total crap. I have defended Belichick's decisions both in the draft and as a GM repeatedly and consider him to be among the best in football at those roles, and just because i disagree with this decision or any other it in no way means that i don't respect him, and the only reason you are resorting to that measure is because you cannot defend your argument without it. Tebow is a bad QB, that is obvious, and simply saying that Belichick signing him means otherwise is as weak an argument can get. by that logic every single player Belichick brings in should be on this roster and that's just crap.


Tebow fumbles the ball once in every ten times he runs with it, and he is a horrible passer, both are FACTS, and if you want to make an argument that he is a good QB then do it factually, not simply based upon Belichick trying him out.

 

[Huckleberry1]

That's a million miles from what I said but you go girl.

Whatever you say Spanky.

 

[BradyFTW!]

In this situation - yup pretty much. The 5 SBs Belichick has led us too to my mind earns him the benefit of the doubt, an honour none of you seem to want to give him.

People are letting their dislike for Tebow colour their thinking. No consideration for BBs abilities in this thread and the NYJ have suddenly transformed into a role model on how to assess a QB's ability in this thread and this thread alone.

Reading through this thread, when it comes to assessing QB talent, it's NYJ good, Bill Belichick bad. The Tebow effect I suppose.

Are you being serious? I'm not trying to be flippant here, I just can't for the life of me understand how someone could jump to such a ridiculous conclusion.

Belichick took a flyer on Tebow, because there's virtually no opportunity cost to doing so. Tebow's presence on the 90 man roster just means that we have one less future insurance salesman competing for a spot. So for now, we know that Belichick sees more in Tebow than he does in some random guy on the caliber of Scott Vallone or AJ Edds.

Beyond that, we have no idea what value Belichick places on Tebow, and we won't really have any idea until/unless he actually survives the cutdowns. And even then, if Tebow does make the team, Belichick does occasionally just sign bad players. He's not a perfect evaluator of talent, because nobody is a perfect evaluator of talent.

All of this ultimately means that your original point--that Belichick signing Tebow self-evidently means that he's a good player who's capable of meaningful contributions to the team--is wrong on like three different levels. I'm one of the biggest Belichick-homers on this board, and even I won't claim that he's perfect, and we all know that he loves to take low-risk flyers when the opportunity presents itself.

 

[Brady6]

I wrote the same but then deleted it thinking I'd got the wrong end of the stick. Our 3rd string QB is, according to the stats quoted, better than a number of NFL starters. And this is supposed to be a bad signing. LMFAO.

MM first thing is those were Tebow’s career numbers ranked in just 2012; the main point you’re missing is that it is not as simple as 3rd string quarterback, because last season we didn’t even have one, and that is my preference for this season.

It comes down to Tebow or one of these players:

Bequette
Buchanan
Francis
Cunningham
Dowling
T. Wilson
Ebner
Bolden
Blount

So once you pick the player you’d consider cutting instead of Tebow you have to ask this question

1. Will Tebow contribute more in 2013 to the team than this player?
2. Will Tebow contribute more during the life of his contract to this team?
3. Which player is more likely to remain on the FA market if cut? Which is more likely to be signed away?
4. Who has more potential value in a future trade?

Then you would make the determination, but saying he is the best 3rd string QB in the league that doesn’t require or merit a 3rd string QB is not really basis for keeping him.

 

[manxman2601]

Total crap. I have defended Belichick's decisions both in the draft and as a GM repeatedly and consider him to be among the best in football at those roles, and just because i disagree with this decision or any other it in no way means that i don't respect him, and the only reason you are resorting to that measure is because you cannot defend your argument without it. Tebow is a bad QB, that is obvious, and simply saying that Belichick signing him means otherwise is as weak an argument can get. by that logic every single player Belichick brings in should be on this roster and that's just crap.


Tebow fumbles the ball once in every ten times he runs with it, and he is a horrible passer, both are FACTS, and if you want to make an argument that he is a good QB then do it factually, not simply based upon Belichick trying him out.

Why do I need to do that? I've said a number of times that I'm not trying to say he's a good QB. All I've ever said is that he's an intriguing signing and an intriguing prospect. I'm on record dozens of times saying just that.

So stow your "total crap" BS, try reading what I actually say and then maybe we can have a worthy debate.

and simply saying that Belichick signing him means otherwise is as weak an argument can get

If that was the argument I had made then you might have a point except that it wasn't. I'm saying let's give Belichick the benefit of the doubt, he's earned it. Strange that you think that is so controversial.

 

[chasa]

I've answered it plenty of times. How about Jake Bequette, he of the zero tackles? How about Nate Ebner, a decent special-teamer but that's about it. How about Brandon Bolden, a replacement level RB? How about Daniel Fells, an average but not great in any area TE?

all of those players are already replaced

Bolden by blount, Ebner by wilson, fells by sudfield, and Bequette by one of the other new guys.

Also you are going to take depth away on defense for a third string qb?

Really?

REALLY?

Is this real life?

 

[manxman2601]

MM first thing is those were Tebow’s career numbers ranked in just 2012; the main point you’re missing is that it is not as simple as 3rd string quarterback, because last season we didn’t even have one, and that is my preference for this season.

It comes down to Tebow or one of these players:

Bequette
Buchanan
Francis
Cunningham
Dowling
T. Wilson
Ebner
Bolden
Blount

So once you pick the player you’d consider cutting instead of Tebow you have to ask this question

1. Will Tebow contribute more in 2013 to the team than this player?
2. Will Tebow contribute more during the life of his contract to this team?
3. Which player is more likely to remain on the FA market if cut? Which is more likely to be signed away?
4. Who has more potential value in a future trade?

Then you would make the determination, but saying he is the best 3rd string QB in the league that doesn’t require or merit a 3rd string QB is not really basis for keeping him.

I've never said that.

 

[manxman2601]

all of those players are already replaced

Bolden by blount, Ebner by wilson, fells by sudfield, and Bequette by one of the other new guys.

Also you are going to take depth away on defense for a third string qb?

Really?

REALLY?

Is this real life?

I'm not the person making the final 53 man determination so I don't really get your point. I'm not particularly invested in Tebow making the final 53. I like him and I'd be quite happy if they did but all I'm interested in is seeing what BB does. I'm just anti prejudicial arguments and pro giving people a chance. If you have any doubts on that matter, check what I had to say about Duron Harmon.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I've answered it plenty of times. How about Jake Bequette, he of the zero tackles? How about Nate Ebner, a decent special-teamer but that's about it. How about Brandon Bolden, a replacement level RB? How about Daniel Fells, an average but not great in any area TE?

Here is the very important difference, NONE of those players have shown they can't play, Tebow has, and that's why even his defenders are only arguing that they want Belichick to turn him around, not that he can play already.


Speaking as someone who has NEVER gone off the deep edge in defense of a player or coach I can honestly say that you my friend have gone off of the deep edge.

 

[Awesomo 3000]

MM first thing is those were Tebow’s career numbers ranked in just 2012; the main point you’re missing is that it is not as simple as 3rd string quarterback, because last season we didn’t even have one, and that is my preference for this season.

If Tebow, god forbid, passes up Mallett for the #2 spot (it's not as crazy as it sounded a couple months ago) will you be as vehemently anti-Mallett as you were against Tebow? Can you muster up the energy to put out 100+ posts on how terribad Mallett is? If you really don't want a 3rd string qb out of principle, then you'd better hope Mallett steps up his game. He wasn't much better than Tebow last week.

Or, you can even think of it as a simple hypothetical, if you'd like. The idea isn't as far off as it would've sounded at the start of the summer, though.

 

[chasa]

I'm not the person making the final 53 man determination so I don't really get your point. I'm not particularly invested in Tebow making the final 53. I like him and I'd be quite happy if they did but all I'm interested in is seeing what BB does. I'm just anti prejudicial arguments and pro giving people a chance. If you have any doubts on that matter, check what I had to say about Duron Harmon.

So basically what you are saying is, You are arguing against the people who dont want tebow, not because you want tebow, but because you want to argue against people who are against something?

You're participating in this discussion for the sole purpose of arguing for arguing's sake.

You are that guy, That guy on the internet, the one everyone gets angry at.

 

[chasa]

If Tebow, god forbid, passes up Mallett for the #2 spot (it's not as crazy as it sounded a couple months ago) will you be as vehemently anti-Mallett as you were against Tebow? Can you muster up the energy to put out 100+ posts on how terribad Mallett is? If you really don't want a 3rd string qb out of principle, then you'd better hope Mallett steps up his game. He wasn't much better than Tebow last week.

Or, you can even think of it as a simple hypothetical, if you'd like. The idea isn't as far off as it would've sounded at the start of the summer, though.

what do you have that says Tebow passing mallet is more likely now than it was when he was first signed?

In less than half the amount of playing time Mallet threw for twice as many yards as tebow, as well as twice as many completions.

 

[mgteich]

Tebow is being given his "chance". He has his own offense to run in about 50% of the preseason reps (he is the #3 and #4 QB which we often carry into the preseason) plus all the scrimmages and practices.
I trust that he is also getting his chance to show how competitive he is with our special teamers.

An NFL quality quarterback (especially a running quarterback) should stand out against the scrubs.

I'm not the person making the final 53 man determination so I don't really get your point. I'm not particularly invested in Tebow making the final 53. I like him and I'd be quite happy if they did but all I'm interested in is seeing what BB does. I'm just anti prejudicial arguments and pro giving people a chance. If you have any doubts on that matter, check what I had to say about Duron Harmon.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I'm not the person making the final 53 man determination so I don't really get your point. I'm not particularly invested in Tebow making the final 53. I like him and I'd be quite happy if they did but all I'm interested in is seeing what BB does. I'm just anti prejudicial arguments and pro giving people a chance. If you have any doubts on that matter, check what I had to say about Duron Harmon.

I am all for giving player's a chance, see Tavon Wilson, however in this instance there is more than enough evidence that Tebow cannot throw, and had he come into camp and the pre-season and everyone saw a very different player then you might have an argument, but in truth what everyone is seeing is the exact same player who barely stuck with the Jets last season.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Are you being serious? I'm not trying to be flippant here, I just can't for the life of me understand how someone could jump to such a ridiculous conclusion.

Belichick took a flyer on Tebow, because there's virtually no opportunity cost to doing so. Tebow's presence on the 90 man roster just means that we have one less future insurance salesman competing for a spot. So for now, we know that Belichick sees more in Tebow than he does in some random guy on the caliber of Scott Vallone or AJ Edds.

Beyond that, we have no idea what value Belichick places on Tebow, and we won't really have any idea until/unless he actually survives the cutdowns. And even then, if Tebow does make the team, Belichick does occasionally just sign bad players. He's not a perfect evaluator of talent, because nobody is a perfect evaluator of talent.

All of this ultimately means that your original point--that Belichick signing Tebow self-evidently means that he's a good player who's capable of meaningful contributions to the team--is wrong on like three different levels. I'm one of the biggest Belichick-homers on this board, and even I won't claim that he's perfect, and we all know that he loves to take low-risk flyers when the opportunity presents itself.

Really good post, right on the money.

 

[Brady6]

It's too bad an IR'ed player can't practice. That would be a great idea having him there and not exposed to other teams like he would be just being on the practice roster.

In my opinion Tebow’s biggest issues are his mechanically and intellectually; on a reserve list he would be allowed to attend meetings, study game tape, learn the playbook, and work on his mechanics (rehab). His only limitations would be practicing and participating in games. I do see benefit in him being here under the teams control being able to stand on the sidelines, participate in meetings, and work with our coaches independently on mechanics. My personal opinion is placing him on some level of reserve roster is a no brainer.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Why do I need to do that? I've said a number of times that I'm not trying to say he's a good QB. All I've ever said is that he's an intriguing signing and an intriguing prospect. I'm on record dozens of times saying just that.

So stow your "total crap" BS, try reading what I actually say and then maybe we can have a worthy debate.




If that was the argument I had made then you might have a point except that it wasn't. I'm saying let's give Belichick the benefit of the doubt, he's earned it. Strange that you think that is so controversial.

I did read it, you were calling those who disagreed with you both disgusting and disrespectful of Belichick, and that is total crap. If someone was saying Belichick sucks and they need a GM you would have a point but simply because we feel Tebow is a wasted roster spot, which is accurate, you are making those claims. Don't want to get called out on it, don't say it.

 

[Awesomo 3000]

what do you have that says Tebow passing mallet is more likely now than it was when he was first signed?

In less than half the amount of playing time Mallet threw for twice as many yards as tebow, as well as twice as many completions.

It was mainly to address Brady6's dishonest claim that he's simply against having any 3rd string quarterback.

They were both pretty ineffective out there. With Tebow, you need to factor in yards on the ground as well. It's Mallett's job to lose, but he didn't light it up out there, by any definition.

And, most importantly, please tell me, when is the last time a coach installed a special offense, and dedicated significant practice to it, for only a 3rd or 4th string qb?

 

[manxman2601]

So basically what you are saying is, You are arguing against the people who dont want tebow, not because you want tebow, but because you want to argue against people who are against something?

You're participating in this discussion for the sole purpose of arguing for arguing's sake.

You are that guy, That guy on the internet, the one everyone gets angry at.

Please feel free to put me on ignore.

 

[Huckleberry1]

In my opinion Tebow’s biggest issues are his mechanically and intellectually; on a reserve list he would be allowed to attend meetings, study game tape, learn the playbook, and work on his mechanics (rehab). His only limitations would be practicing and participating in games. I do see benefit in him being here under the teams control being able to stand on the sidelines, participate in meetings, and work with our coaches independently on mechanics. My personal opinion is placing him on some level of reserve roster is a no brainer.

If i thought he could change i would be willing to give him more of a shot but i don't. Tebow has been trying to make these changes for some time but when the bulllets start flying resorts to his lifetime mechanics, which is not unusual in professional sports in any way, it's common in fact. I honestly don't believe Tebow can ever become an accurate enough passer to be successful in the NFL, and i also believe he has worked his ass off to try and make the necessary changes but couldn't do it.