Patriots Training Camp Day 10 (@ Philadelphia)

[Ironman44]

Ironman - what do you see that is "conflicting" between the two reports?

not so much conflicting (I used the wrong word) as much as "not as apocalyptic"....I edited my initial post almost immediately to explain it better.

Tebow blows as a drop back QB, that's not really news. He did throw two Tds though, where one report said he was terrible, the other sounded like what he is , which is a QB 3 learning a new offense some good , some bad.

different tones completely ...but you are right , conflicting was the wrong word to use on my part.

 

[Joker]

"
I don't see why they don't engineer a "moving pocket" for Tim. He seems to need motion to be super effective. If they must turn him into a pocket passer, make the pocket different for him.

Tim is the No. 3 QB, but not much was said about No. 2 Mallett. I am not at all against Mallett, but I would like to hear what is happening with him. He gets a pass on being the worst quarterback. Now, I am not wishing that on him! but I don't think he did better than Tim."

holy krist...it just NEVER ends with these people...it's all a great big anti-Tim conspiracy!!!!

 

[Aßßynormal]

Can't fall back to sleep:

a) Amendola wearing #80? Old news?

b) Mallett tomorrow? No Brady?

c) Any news on Vega.

d) very controversial ..... here goes: I think Seymour has three options :

1) retire, no news on that

2) Atlanta, no history but very possible (plus visited)

3) NE, history and possible (despite previous comments); sitting out training camp as in Waters case (before Waters went mental with new demands); BB apparent lack of concern at the thin DT roster (or Armstead soon); large cash reserve available on cap; Tebow paid to pray for him (my request).

 

[situational_awareness]

"
I don't see why they don't engineer a "moving pocket" for Tim. He seems to need motion to be super effective. If they must turn him into a pocket passer, make the pocket different for him.

Tim is the No. 3 QB, but not much was said about No. 2 Mallett. I am not at all against Mallett, but I would like to hear what is happening with him. He gets a pass on being the worst quarterback. Now, I am not wishing that on him! but I don't think he did better than Tim."

holy krist...it just NEVER ends with these people...it's all a great big anti-Tim conspiracy!!!!

As usual, you're looking way too far into this. If someone wants to make a comment about how Tebow would be used more effectively, or that he is better than Mallet, while receiving harsher criticism, they are entitled to that opinion. I don't see why you think it's a conspiracy theory. It's a football opinion, not the JFK assassination.

What's so controversial about those opinions...

1) Tebow is better on the run than in the pocket.
2) That a QB thrives in a system built around their skillset.
3) That Tebow is better than Mallett (he does have a division title, and playoff win to his record, and a winning record as a QB).
4) That Tebow as the QB3 gets more coverage than Mallet and his flaws are widely reported on... much moreso than Mallett as the QB2.

The only one that might raise an eyebrow is #3, but it's not an outlandish opinion to have. If someone thought Tebow was better than Brady... well that's idiotic. But we're talking about Mallett.

The conspiracy theory is that you think other people think there is a conspiracy going on.

 

[50-yard-line]

That's part of why roster projections are so difficult (and intriguing). It's not just Bolden vs Blount (or even Winn, for that matter), but a 5th RB vs another TE, or an extra QB, or another OL or DL, etc. And that's before you consider someone's position play vs special teams play, long term upside vs immediate impact, salary cap impact, age, injury history, what the position will look like in 2014, etc.

That's also what makes this part of the year fun. Twenty people could make twenty different roster projections - and with equal validity, given the uncertainties involved. Also, a lot of this - 5 RBs? 3 or 4 TEs? How many DEs? - will likely sort out in preseason. Teams don't get through August unscathed. It's pretty cool that the Pats are in a situation at many positions, like RB, where, if, say, Bolden goes down, they've got a Blount and/or a Winn right behind him ready to step in. This team is going to be deep at every position.

Back to Blount...I think he brings something to the team they don't have (Bolden flashed it a little bit in one game - Buffalo). Ridley is the number one, clearly...Vereen is going to push him.

When the Pats are up in the 4th quarter, after wearing down the other team's defense, I wouldn't mind seeing Blount pounding the ball, over and over again. Tired guys aren't going to bring him down.

 

[ivanvamp]

d) very controversial ..... here goes: I think Seymour has three options :

1) retire, no news on that

2) Atlanta, no history but very possible (plus visited)

3) NE, history and possible (despite previous comments); sitting out training camp as in Waters case (before Waters went mental with new demands); BB apparent lack of concern at the thin DT roster (or Armstead soon); large cash reserve available on cap; Tebow paid to pray for him (my request).

Boy, I would love it if Big Sey were to come back to the Pats for a year or two. He'd be very, very helpful, IMO. I don't know if the fences can be mended but if they can, he'd be a terrific addition.

 

[ivanvamp]

That's also what makes this part of the year fun. Twenty people could make twenty different roster projections - and with equal validity, given the uncertainties involved. Also, a lot of this - 5 RBs? 3 or 4 TEs? How many DEs? - will likely sort out in preseason. Teams don't get through August unscathed. It's pretty cool that the Pats are in a situation at many positions, like RB, where, if, say, Bolden goes down, they've got a Blount and/or a Winn right behind him ready to step in. This team is going to be deep at every position.

Back to Blount...I think he brings something to the team they don't have (Bolden flashed it a little bit in one game - Buffalo). Ridley is the number one, clearly...Vereen is going to push him.

When the Pats are up in the 4th quarter, after wearing down the other team's defense, I wouldn't mind seeing Blount pounding the ball, over and over again. Tired guys aren't going to bring him down.

I've known a lot of D-I college football players over the years, and I've asked the linebackers this question: On a running play, would you prefer to be hit by a 320-lb tackle or a 220-lb fullback? Every single one of them, within a half-second - no thinking about it at all - have answered that they'd prefer to be hit by the tackle, despite the tackle being 100 pounds heavier than the fullback.

Why? Speed. I'm sure we could do the math, but they all said that the speed at which a RB hits you at 220 pounds makes it hurt WAY more than the tackle.

So I'm picturing a defense, late in the game, they're down 2 scores, they're tired and kind of seeing the writing on the wall, and here the Pats come with this absolute hammer of a running back. And from what the guys told me, yeah, they'll go make the tackle, but they really won't want to absorb the punishment.

 

[Nunchucks]

I suspect that Thompkins is fighting for a starting spot alongside Dobson.

 

[TB12_laser designator]

I think Cunningham has to have a very good preseason showing to stick.

Not sure how much more time BB gives him to show what he has.

He has had plenty enough time, so I won't be surprised if Cunningham is gone by September.

 

[patchick]

A Brady quote, via Reiss:

"I'm proud of all those young players; we've thrown a lot of stuff at them. It's not like we're backing off because that's not the way our offense is; we've got to keep putting the pressure on everybody, whether it's Aaron [Dobson] or Josh [Boyce] or KT [Kenbrell Thompkins] or [tight end] Zach Sudfeld," Brady said. Take note of the names Brady mentioned -- those are the young pass-catchers who have elevated themselves at this point.

Bed check: Brady at his best - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Last year the Patriots drafted 3 rookie starters on defense, building the core of a defensive future. Duplicating that feat in the passing offense this year -- without using a pick higher than round 3 -- would be the stuff dreams are made of.

 

[Sicilian]

A Brady quote, via Reiss:



Bed check: Brady at his best - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Last year the Patriots drafted 3 rookie starters on defense, building the core of a defensive future. Duplicating that feat in the passing offense this year -- without using a pick higher than round 3 -- would be the stuff dreams are made of.

Dobson was a 2, wasn't he? But your point stands, it would be amazing!

 

[Kontradiction]

not so much conflicting (I used the wrong word) as much as "not as apocalyptic"....I edited my initial post almost immediately to explain it better.

Tebow blows as a drop back QB, that's not really news. He did throw two Tds though, where one report said he was terrible, the other sounded like what he is , which is a QB 3 learning a new offense some good , some bad.

different tones completely ...but you are right , conflicting was the wrong word to use on my part.

Just a nitpick, but this isn't a new offense for Tebow. McDaniels ran that Erhardt-Perkins in Denver when Tebow was there in 2010.

 

[patchick]

Dobson was a 2, wasn't he? But your point stands, it would be amazing!

By 3, of course, I mean 2. (Yes, thanks for the correction!)

If they can manage to rebuild the receiving corps while still having the luxury to nab a rare athlete like Collins with their top pick, that will be a huge accomplishment. It would also strengthen my longtime aversion to picking WRs in round 1.

 

[50-yard-line]

A Brady quote, via Reiss:



Bed check: Brady at his best - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Last year the Patriots drafted 3 rookie starters on defense, building the core of a defensive future. Duplicating that feat in the passing offense this year -- without using a pick higher than round 3 -- would be the stuff dreams are made of.

Well, that quote sure makes it sound like those four guys aren't going to the waiver wire. Kudos to all the draftniks here who started talking about KT and Sudfield early on.

 

[50-yard-line]

I've known a lot of D-I college football players over the years, and I've asked the linebackers this question: On a running play, would you prefer to be hit by a 320-lb tackle or a 220-lb fullback? Every single one of them, within a half-second - no thinking about it at all - have answered that they'd prefer to be hit by the tackle, despite the tackle being 100 pounds heavier than the fullback.

Why? Speed. I'm sure we could do the math, but they all said that the speed at which a RB hits you at 220 pounds makes it hurt WAY more than the tackle.

So I'm picturing a defense, late in the game, they're down 2 scores, they're tired and kind of seeing the writing on the wall, and here the Pats come with this absolute hammer of a running back. And from what the guys told me, yeah, they'll go make the tackle, but they really won't want to absorb the punishment.

I believe that some offensive linemen were saying the same thing about Spikes last year. i forget who was calling the game, but one former player remarked that the offensive linemen of teams playing the Patriots were not looking forward to getting hammered by Spikes.

He wears them down, which is why I hope (but doubt) the Patriots find a way to keep him. That kind of brute physicality is hard to find and pays huge dividends over time.

 

[fnordcircle]

Look, all I'm saying is that when Brady has gotten so used to talking to or about you that he is using your initials as a nickname - you're golden.

 

[Ironman44]

Just a nitpick, but this isn't a new offense for Tebow. McDaniels ran that Erhardt-Perkins in Denver when Tebow was there in 2010.

Well what he is doing in it right now is new . Using the option wrinkle McDaniels added in 2010 Tebow scored 11 TDs his rookie year , 6 passing and 5 rushing and he wasn't even the starter.

I'm pretty sure they weren't running that yesterday. Regardless the tone of the reports were different that was my only real point .

 

[BradyFTW!]

As usual, you're looking way too far into this. If someone wants to make a comment about how Tebow would be used more effectively, or that he is better than Mallet, while receiving harsher criticism, they are entitled to that opinion. I don't see why you think it's a conspiracy theory. It's a football opinion, not the JFK assassination.

What's so controversial about those opinions...

1) Tebow is better on the run than in the pocket.
2) That a QB thrives in a system built around their skillset.
3) That Tebow is better than Mallett (he does have a division title, and playoff win to his record, and a winning record as a QB).
4) That Tebow as the QB3 gets more coverage than Mallet and his flaws are widely reported on... much moreso than Mallett as the QB2.

The only one that might raise an eyebrow is #3, but it's not an outlandish opinion to have. If someone thought Tebow was better than Brady... well that's idiotic. But we're talking about Mallett.

The conspiracy theory is that you think other people think there is a conspiracy going on.

The problem is two-fold:

1. You don't develop and teach an entirely new pass-blocking scheme to accommodate your QB3. It's a waste of valuable time
2. Even if you did, you're now introducing an entirely new system, and requiring your offensive linemen to consistently do something that they've probably never done in their lives, to accommodate the limitations of a QB who, even after all of that, still isn't especially good.

If you can get the same or better production out of a replacement-level quarterback without reinventing the wheel, then why would anyone in their right mind undertake this task?

 

[Demosthenes]

Some vids from yesterday's practice.


Pats WRs vs Eagles DBs.
DB's Square Off vs. Patriots' WR's


Pats DBs vs Eagles WRs.
WR's Take On Patriots' DB's

 

[situational_awareness]

The problem is two-fold:

1. You don't develop and teach an entirely new pass-blocking scheme to accommodate your QB3. It's a waste of valuable time
2. Even if you did, you're now introducing an entirely new system, and requiring your offensive linemen to consistently do something that they've probably never done in their lives, to accommodate the limitations of a QB who, even after all of that, still isn't especially good.

If you can get the same or better production out of a replacement-level quarterback without reinventing the wheel, then why would anyone in their right mind undertake this task?

I never said they should develop a new system for Tebow, nor do I think they should. Read the post again and you will see that you are arguing against a point that was never made. All I said is that it's not controversial to think that a QB (whoever it is) will thrive in a system geared towards their skillset. At no point did I say that QB3 merits that sort of team focus. I also believe that he will be able run the current offense if called upon. Definitely not in the same manner or proficiency as Brady, but not many QBs could run this offense as well as TFB.

I've been very clear that Tebow is QB3 and should take this opportunity to learn all he can from Brady. I think he has a chance to supplant Mallett, but that's about it.