RFA Emmanuel Sanders visits Pats 3/16; signs offer sheet 4/10, sheet matched 4/14

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Question: In a situation like this with the Pats having made an offer....can they re-up the offer for more cash before the deadline for the other team to have to match it?..or is there only one offer and amount allowed and then they can't change the amount?...in other words,can the Pats come out today and up it to 3 Million if they wanted to?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I don't see it happening either way. They'll either announce just before the deadline if they have matched or they'll just let it go to the deadline if the decide they don't want to without saying anything letting their silence speak.

Pitt still has no idea what to do with sanders, so im sure they'll wait til the deadline.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Question: In a situation like this with the Pats having made an offer....can they re-up the offer for more cash before the deadline for the other team to have to match it?..or is there only one offer and amount allowed and then they can't change the amount?...in other words,can the Pats come out today and up it to 3 Million if they wanted to?

The pats only get 1 shot, so no they cannot change their offer

 

[Miguel]

Question for those who know: is it possible to find out beforehand if PIT will match the offer or do we have to wait until the deadline expires to officially find out? To clarify, is it possible for PIT to come out, say, tomorrow and announce they won't match and then have Sanders officially be a Patriot.

It is possible for the Steelers to give Sanders theri First Refusal Exercise Notice at anytime

 

[lillloyd]

Steelers still unsure whether to match the offer. Their FO is split 50-50.

Report: Steelers Are Split 50-50 Whether to Match Patriots’ Offer to Emmanuel Sanders | New England Patriots | NESN.com

I trust ex-Steelers' reporter John Clayton's sources much more than Ed Werder's, even if he does appear to be morphing into a gnome over time. (Although he does have one of the best ESPN commercials in recent memory too..."MA I'M DONE WITH MY SEGMENT!!!" lolz)

50/50 sounds about right. I am flip-flopping like crazy on this. My latest thought: everyone lauds Pitt for landing later-round gems at WR, but they forget the Limas Sweeds, Willie Reids and Fred Gibsons who busted out. Just one pick separated Brandon Tate from Mike Wallace in '09...so there's some luck involved, and who's to say that Pitt's recent WR luck won't run out?

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

I have to strongly disagree re/ the depth chart--Sanders is an absolute lock to be the WR2 if he stays. He is (deservedly) higher on the depth chart than Cotchery or Burress (who didn't dress some days last year...Burress is purely a depth signing). If he stays, he's starting, pure and simple.

As far as rookies go, I guess it would depend on the rookie, but barring rare exceptions it's more typical for rookie WRs to be eased in during their rookie seasons. *Maybe* I could see a Tavon Austin coming in and stealing a few snaps, but much more likely would be a fast-developing rookie WR getting third down reps at a different position than Sanders. I don't see any Larry Fitzgeralds being available at #17, so I seriously doubt someone would outright take his WR2 spot.

Re/ the "giving up on him" and "turning on him" comments: I'm a Steelers fan who values Sanders--he is a starting-caliber WR--and like most Steelers fans would very much like to keep him in a perfect world. But I also see that his value currently is as much in "projection" as production; that he has had injury issues in the past; that are tight against the cap; and that if we let him go we'd be guaranteed 3rd round compensation for a guy that has a very good chance of simply walking after this year. That is a calculated judgement, not "turning" on a player. To paint the Steelers fan base or media as somehow ungrateful or myopic regarding his potential departure is to utterly ignore the (critical) surrounding context, which obviously factors significantly into our opinions.

I don't know about the last part of your post here. I am surrounded by Pittsburgh fans, and media and all I have heard is negativity regarding Sanders. Not one person I've spoken to has said they would prefer to keep him. Making it a point to single him out as a mediocre receiver who can't stay healthy. While I'm sure there are many fans who do understand the scope of the overall situation there are just as many running him out of town.

Granted I'm sure alot of those people are just upset that he signed with another team, and view it as a slap in the face, but belittling him for it is kind of rediculous. Why would he want to stay in Pitt., if he feels so disrepected?

 

[ATippett56]

I don't know about the last part of your post here. I am surrounded by Pittsburgh fans, and media and all I have heard is negativity regarding Sanders. Not one person I've spoken to has said they would prefer to keep him. Making it a point to single him out as a mediocre receiver who can't stay healthy. While I'm sure there are many fans who do understand the scope of the overall situation there are just as many running him out of town.

Which is why I don't understand why the New England Patriots would sign Emmanuel Sanders to an offer sheet in the first place.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I don't know about the last part of your post here. I am surrounded by Pittsburgh fans, and media and all I have heard is negativity regarding Sanders. Not one person I've spoken to has said they would prefer to keep him. Making it a point to single him out as a mediocre receiver who can't stay healthy. While I'm sure there are many fans who do understand the scope of the overall situation there are just as many running him out of town.

Granted I'm sure alot of those people are just upset that he signed with another team, and view it as a slap in the face, but belittling him for it is kind of rediculous. Why would he want to stay in Pitt., if he feels so disrepected?

Yeah they are saying this because they think it's inevitable he'll leave. They are trying to feel better about it. Its similar to how many fans here we're saying it was better to let welker go afer the fact.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yeah they are saying this because they think it's inevitable he'll leave. They are trying to make it seem like a good situation. Its similar to how many fans here we're saying it was best to let welker go.

We just offered the Steelers a 3rd round pick for a WR that they expect to lose no later than next year, when it's a WR deep draft. Why would people being fine with gaining an additional 3 years of player control at a fraction of the cost be "trying to make it seem like a good situation"?

That [highlight]is[/highlight] a good situation. It's about as close to "can't lose either way" as it gets, under the circumstances.

 

[lillloyd]

I don't know about the last part of your post here. I am surrounded by Pittsburgh fans, and media and all I have heard is negativity regarding Sanders. Not one person I've spoken to has said they would prefer to keep him. Making it a point to single him out as a mediocre receiver who can't stay healthy. While I'm sure there are many fans who do understand the scope of the overall situation there are just as many running him out of town.

Granted I'm sure alot of those people are just upset that he signed with another team, and view it as a slap in the face, but belittling him for it is kind of rediculous. Why would he want to stay in Pitt., if he feels so disrepected?

Well I'm sure there are vocal homers who will crap all over anyone who tries to leave...but I think this is true of any fan base (surely, not 100% of Pats fans were well-wishers when Welker left?!)

But the whole "belittling" aspect has me genuinely confused. Bouchette called him a "lame duck" and Sanders took offense (apparently not understanding the term "lame duck" is descriptive, not derogatory). And the fact is, he has been injured frequently, and he has not been hugely productive--he has simply not been a core contributor thus far (even if he has the potential to be). From a production standpoint, he has been "mediocre". How is acknowledging that inflammatory?

The last thing I would say is, your experience with Steeler fan sentiment about this is not what mine has been (and I know a lot of Steelers' fans as well Now it may be that sentiment is leaning towards taking the pick--but even those opinions don't seem particularly confident, i.e. it's hardly a slam dunk choice for most that I know.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Yeah they are saying this because they think it's inevitable he'll leave. They are trying to make it seem like a good situation. Its similar to how many fans here we're saying it was better to let welker go.

I remember when you said there was zero chance pats sign him to a sheet..oops

 

[ATippett56]

I don't know about the last part of your post here. I am surrounded by Pittsburgh fans, and media and all I have heard is negativity regarding Sanders. Not one person I've spoken to has said they would prefer to keep him. Making it a point to single him out as a mediocre receiver who can't stay healthy. While I'm sure there are many fans who do understand the scope of the overall situation there are just as many running him out of town.

Granted I'm sure alot of those people are just upset that he signed with another team, and view it as a slap in the face, but belittling him for it is kind of rediculous. Why would he want to stay in Pitt., if he feels so disrepected?

I'd rather have the New England Patriots keep the third round draft pick and revive the wide receiver "corpse" in New England.

 

[ATippett56]

Well I'm sure there are vocal homers who will crap all over anyone who tries to leave...but I think this is true of any fan base (surely, not 100% of Pats fans were well-wishers when Welker left?!)

That's a sore subject around these parts.

 

[lillloyd]

We just offered the Steelers a 3rd round pick for a WR that they expect to lose no later than next year, when it's a WR deep draft. Why would people being fine with gaining an additional 3 years of player control at a fraction of the cost be "trying to make it seem like a good situation"?

That [highlight]is[/highlight] a good situation. It's about as close to "can't lose either way" as it gets, under the circumstances.

There are definitely good aspects to taking the pick, no doubt. The flip side: Jerricho Cotchery just became your WR2. Plaxico Burress is your WR3. And most rookie WRs won't contribute much in their first year, even if they are the next Mike Wallace/Antonio Brown gem.

I think the disconnect on this board is this: most Pats fans (not to mention most NFL pundits) will consider this year a rebuilding year--or at the very least, a "reloading" year, for Pitt. I can guarantee that Pittsburgh's brass does NOT view it that way; they'll see the glass half-full, and see a roster with a good QB and a good defense and a ton of guys (hopefully!) coming back from injuries that ruined their 2012 campaigns.

Which is why, regardless of what I think Pittsburgh should do (take the pick), I think what they will do is match. They're not wired to concede a season for the future, and I think ultimately they'll see losing Sanders on top of Wallace earlier as doing just that.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

Well I'm sure there are vocal homers who will crap all over anyone who tries to leave...but I think this is true of any fan base (surely, not 100% of Pats fans were well-wishers when Welker left?!)

But the whole "belittling" aspect has me genuinely confused. Bouchette called him a "lame duck" and Sanders took offense (apparently not understanding the term "lame duck" is descriptive, not derogatory). And the fact is, he has been injured frequently, and he has not been hugely productive--he has simply not been a core contributor thus far (even if he has the potential to be). From a production standpoint, he has been "mediocre". How is acknowledging that inflammatory?

The last thing I would say is, your experience with Steeler fan sentiment about this is not what mine has been (and I know a lot of Steelers' fans as well Now it may be that sentiment is leaning towards taking the pick--but even those opinions don't seem particularly confident, i.e. it's hardly a slam dunk choice for most that I know.

The belittling aspect, was more in regards to how he probably feels (i.e. his tweets) hearing the fans, and broadcasters on 93.7 the fan talk about him.
That Greg Giannoti, and Paul Alexander are just about as arrogant and condescending as they come...Ed Bouchette is even getting a little annoying in the same regard.
Right or wrong it appears Sanders is taking it personally, and that certainly doesn't bode well for an extension beyond this year even if the Steelers do match the offer.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I remember when you said there was zero chance pats sign him to a sheet..oops

Your still on this forum?

And yes i made a mistake. What does that have to do with whether the steelers will match? Or are you just trying to be a %%%% ? ...do us a favor and stop acting like yourself. Pretend to be someone else and you'll get much farther in life.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

We just offered the Steelers a 3rd round pick for a WR that they expect to lose no later than next year, when it's a WR deep draft. Why would people being fine with gaining an additional 3 years of player control at a fraction of the cost be "trying to make it seem like a good situation"?

That [highlight]is[/highlight] a good situation. It's about as close to "can't lose either way" as it gets, under the circumstances.

I was talkng about pittsburgh fans talking about how they would much rather have third rounder and how sanders was never that great.

 

[lillloyd]

Read into this what you will, from Antonio Brown's interview with Sirius/XM:

Brown basically said that he doesn't think that Sanders will be back in 2013, and while the first part of his answer to the question was inaudible due to a bad cell phone connection, the second part wasn't.

"I don't think that they (the Steelers) really like guys that don't do things their way," said Brown. "There's a certain professional way that they go about their business and I don't think that they make decisions with guys that don't go about things in the way that they should. So in my opinion, I don't think he'll come back. It's just not smart to get a guy for one year at a price that you can get a guy for four years."​

Brown is arguably the hardest worker on the team...but I always thought Sanders was a good kid and a hard worker as well. Kind of a strange comment, particularly coming from Brown. (I don't like it, actually...seems close to airing dirty laundry).

One aspect of this that hasn't really been discussed is the Steelers' locker room last year. The WR production last year was disappointing, and there were rumors of there being a bad locker room. Don't know if it's true, but certainly Pitt has let a lot of guys go, even guys (e.g. Mendy) who could be had at decent pricing.

It would be surprising to me, but if Sanders was on the wrong side of that locker room assessment, maybe that factors in as well into the decision-making. (Then again maybe I'm over-reading, but what else can you discuss on a forum in April?

 

[bagwell368]

I'd rather have the New England Patriots keep the third round draft pick and revive the wide receiver "corpse" in New England.

If you look at the average player drafted in that slot +/- 5 over the years, they are not as good to date on average as Sanders. Sanders is just coming into his prime, into a very strong corps of receivers, with a great QB. I'd wager if healthy he'd well outperform this draft slot over the next 1 or 3-4 years whichever it is.

I searched back in some Steeler fan sites, and the feeling on Sanders around the time Wallace split and was distinctly more positive then now. I smell sour grapes/scorned lover feelings.

 

[ATippett56]

I think the disconnect on this board is this: most Pats fans (not to mention most NFL pundits) will consider this year a rebuilding year--or at the very least, a "reloading" year, for Pitt. I can guarantee that Pittsburgh's brass does NOT view it that way; they'll see the glass half-full, and see a roster with a good QB and a good defense and a ton of guys (hopefully!) coming back from injuries that ruined their 2012 campaigns.

The problem for the Pittsburgh Steelers are the Ravens, Bengals, and to a much lesser extent the Browns.

Meanwhile, the Patriots don't have much of a problem with the New York Jets (run into the ground), the Buffalo Bills (completely clueless), the Miami Dolphins (did Daniel Snyder walk into the building?).