Likely Receiving core: What do you think?

[Kontradiction]

You keep on saying that it isn't true, yet the facts bear it out.

Do not worry, we will see what happens on draft day. To be honest, it is way more fun to see them draft a WR in round 1 that is a dynamic player, I would love to see it. However, I've seen this movie before, and it plays out with a DB, DL, and an OL.

The team has had it's share of misses with WR's no doubt. But, when you look at it, it's the team's management itself that was responsible for those misses. They've either drafted speedy/athletic freaks without much of a brain to contribute (Chad Jackson, Brandon Tate), taken flyers on late round picks (Ebert), or have mildly hit (Branch). The fact of the matter remains that, during the BB era, there hasn't been a draft stocked this deep with quality prospects at that position. They absolutely need to hit on at least one, no doubt, but bringing Sanders aboard should make it a little less dire.

 

[pazrul72]

One of the things I do not think Belichick gets enough credit for is he tends to go into a draft with no glaring, D plan caliber holes on the roster. Right now, as the team is currently laid out, there is at least a B plan in every spot. Before Free Agency we had massive holes at DB, WR, and DL needed some work. By filling those holes, you can disagree who he filled them with if you want, he can let the draft come to him and not HAVE to draft any one position. That way if a Wilfork drops, he can draft him. If the value isn't there he can fold and trade back. He isn't perfect but he does set up the draft to play the odds and is right more often then he is wrong.

I would guess Bill doesn't count on rookies contributing much of anything therefor anything they do is bonus, gravy, etc. The draft is not looking at this years team, which IMO is set, so much as who do we have under contract next year, where will there be a holes that need filling? Who is going to become too expensive to keep? Keeping that in mind no position would shock me. WR is thin next year and a tall burner would be nice to have. LB Spikes might get a huge raise next year and with Hightower playing his role perhaps a better fit could be found. OL there are 5 positions which accounts for almost half of the offense, I am of the opinion that is a position that should be taken every draft. CB Talib is potentially gone next year. DT Wilfork is getting older.

When McCourty was drafted I remember how pissed I was, slamming things around frustrated that we had drafted another smurf corner. He turned out alright and since then I have learned to trust that Bill knows what he is doing. If Geno Smith fell to 29 and Bill thought he was the next great franchise QB I would even be ok with that. The only position that is set this year and for the future that I would lose it if one was drafted is TE.

 

[Steve102]

Screw it... go triple TE set and run the ball. Ryan Mallett can hand off to a bunch of... wait... who's our QB again?

:stars2:

Never mind.

Aiken, Ebert, Slater and Holmes have three career receptions among them. 3. Uno, dos, tres. While Jenkins has the build, his reputation as Molasses Mike makes him an unlikely game changer. Jones is likely a 60 catch guy in this offense. Amendola, if healthy, is a star. Sanders' career numbers look remarkably like Jones to me. Both look to be younger versions of Deion Branch. So, IMO, that gives us Amendola, Jones, and Sanders, if he sticks, and Edelman. Three JAGs and player. The rest are camp fodder or ST'ers.

 

[Patsgofor4]

I've been ahead of the WR problem curve around here since 2009, but your opinion will be given the heft it deserves.

Is this opinion or fact? I was under the impression that statements of fact require a link. Link, please.

 

[Brady2Moss]

Way easier said than done. Let's see you give some names of realistic targets.

There's tons of big receivers in this draft that don't rely entirely on streaks for all their yards. Wouldn't mind a Terrance Williams or hunter in the 2nd. Or Keenan Allen or Deadre Hopkins in the 1st. They're all big guys that can operate on the outside. All are pretty realistic if the team wants to spend the draft capital on them.

And yes I don't consider 13 points at home in the biggest game of the season to be "pretty good". It's actually pretty bad.

 

[Patsgofor4]

SLOT RECEIVERS
Slot receivers is critical to our offense. We now have a starting slot receiver (Amendola) and a backup slot receiver (Edelman). We also have at least 2 TE's who can catch balls in the slot.
==========
OTHER RECEIVERS
Believe it or not, most receptions by wide receivers will not be made in the slot. Our lineup outside is Sanders (maybe), Jones and Jenkins. Sure we will get some outside receptions from Edelman, Amendola, running backs and tight ends. BUT WE STILL NEED OUTSIDE RECEIVERS.

I agree with DI. If this were my lineup at the time of the draft, I would draft two wide receivers by the end of the second round, the end of the third at the latest.

BOTTOM LINE
Even if you really like Sanders, he only has a one year contract. We need to develop a wide receiver or two. And, of course, let Josh choose the draftee receivers.

If Sanders is part of the WR core/corps/corpes, drafting two WRs that high is an awful use of resources and, IMO, is just plain silly.

I'm down with one WR in rounds 1/2 but depth at CB also needs to be addressed early. There has been a lot of focus in this thread on the Pats offensive output, or lack thereof, against the Ravens (without one of the top 5 offensive weapons in the NFL) but does anyone remember what Flacco did to the defense after Talib's injury?

If they trade out of the first round, as expected, I would be in favor of a WR in the second and also with a mid round pick that they would theoretically pick up with the trade down (someone like Tavarres King).

 

[Reckedtrek]

Oh, right! I forgot all you do here nowadays is troll. Will save me from having to respond to any of your posts in the future.

Nowadays? When has he not?

 

[bagwell368]

• Amendola - slot WR who bounces out occasionally and has injury history
• Sanders (pending) - slot WR who bounces out occasionally, has serious injury history, is inconsistent and has 5 fumbles in 3 years
• Edelman - Training room resident who plays WR occasionally
• Jones - Injured WR who's done little to nothing in the NFL and has averaged a lower YPC than Welker in each of the past two seasons
• Jenkins - Underachieving, over the hill WR, who's not a slot WR but has also averaged a lower YPC than Welker for each of the past two seasons

Put me down as being in favor of drafting two WRs in the first two rounds of the draft.

With Sanders:

Great two guys on the roster, the best one with a shot at being a #3 WR this year, the other a denizen of the ST.

How many WR's have a real impact as rookie on average? How about rookie Pat WR's?

 

[Reckedtrek]

The team has had it's share of misses with WR's no doubt. But, when you look at it, it's the team's management itself that was responsible for those misses. They've either drafted speedy/athletic freaks without much of a brain to contribute (Chad Jackson, Brandon Tate), taken flyers on late round picks (Ebert), or have mildly hit (Branch). The fact of the matter remains that, during the BB era, there hasn't been a draft stocked this deep with quality prospects at that position. They absolutely need to hit on at least one, no doubt, but bringing Sanders aboard should make it a little less dire.

Many on this board thought the Pats FINALLY did the right thing and moved UP to get their man (Jackson). I admit it, I was psyched too. And the guy was a waste of space. Imagine that- the Pats did what many of their fans had begged them to do... and the end result was a bust of a draft pick.

I'd be surprised if the Pats pick a WR in the first. I don't see the team making just 4 picks (assuming their third goes to Pitt) either. Time will tell- the "day" is approaching!

 

[Kontradiction]

Many on this board thought the Pats FINALLY did the right thing and moved UP to get their man (Jackson). I admit it, I was psyched too. And the guy was a waste of space. Imagine that- the Pats did what many of their fans had begged them to do... and the end result was a bust of a draft pick.

I'd be surprised if the Pats pick a WR in the first. I don't see the team making just 4 picks (assuming their third goes to Pitt) either. Time will tell- the "day" is approaching!

This draft is deep enough at WR where a quality one should still be available in rounds 2-3. And I see them trading out of the first round as well.

 

[Nunchucks]

This draft is deep enough at WR where a quality one should still be available in rounds 2-3. And I see them trading out of the first round as well.

You've heard the draft is deep at WR, that doesn't make it true. The Patriots may have decided that they do not like any of the WRs in the draft, hence the RFA bid.

 

[Brady2Moss]

You've heard the draft is deep at WR, that doesn't make it true. The Patriots may have decided that they do not like any of the WRs in the draft, hence the RFA bid.

Or they are going to double dip like they often have at positions of need. The RFA bid just signals to me that Sanders is better than the 3rd round receivers. That still leaves them a 1 and a 2 to draft a WR.

If they do not draft a big outside threat I'll be disappointed.

 

[Nunchucks]

Or they are going to double dip like they often have at positions of need. The RFA bid just signals to me that Sanders is better than the 3rd round receivers. That still leaves them a 1 and a 2 to draft a WR.

If they do not draft a big outside threat I'll be disappointed.

Heh, I am always disappointed with the Patriots off-season. Pretty much used to it by now.

 

[tonyto3690]

...so, as you said, reading comprehension is nice. Now, do you have any semblence of a counter point to my response to you or are we finished here?

Not sure what your point is. You clearly stated that having amendola Lloyd sanders Edelman Jenkins jones is not enough at wr which is completely absurd. Spending resources on a wr when we have those guys and junk at lde and in the secondary is just incredibly stupid, espn highlight driven opinion.

Maybe I should switch from reading comprehension and tell you to watch a few games first. Teams that invest tons in skill players and neglect the trenches and defense are asking to be awful.

On top of that we have tom freaking Brady. He took welker and hooman an piloted the third best offense of all time. He created a dynasty with junk at wr. Gronk and Hernandez alone are a million times better than anything he had before 2007, let alone throwing in amendola, Edelman, Lloyd, sanders. Sorry we can't have six receivers and a running back on the field at once.

Ridley gronk and hern need to be on the field on every down (swap Ridley with vereen on third and long). That leves two spots. One is for amendola and the other is for Ballard/hooman/Edelman/fb and then if you throw in sanders and Lloyd, you want to spend a high draft pick on a we? LOL I'm glad you don't run the team.

 

[bagwell368]

Or they are going to double dip like they often have at positions of need. The RFA bid just signals to me that Sanders is better than the 3rd round receivers. That still leaves them a 1 and a 2 to draft a WR.

If they do not draft a big outside threat I'll be disappointed.

Have you looked at Brady's deep throws the past few years? He's done poorly, in particular in terms of accuracy. Maybe it was Moss? Well any of these guys Moss?

There is a salary cap. There are needs now or coming next year at:

CB, SS, MLB, DT, DE, LG, RG, WR, RB

If we sign Sanders we've got a top 3 offense worst case.

There are usually very few (1 or 2) WR's that have a big impact in their rookie year. With a team loaded - yes loaded with receivers (TE slots, RB) - how many throws is a "big outside threat" going to get? A rookie WR in Foxboro? Who was the last rookie WR that was well used here? Branch?

If BB drafts one, great, than he thought it was the best move. But if he doesn't, you ought to figure out why you think your opinion not being followed will be enough reason to come here and complain - again.

 

[tonyto3690]

Or they are going to double dip like they often have at positions of need. The RFA bid just signals to me that Sanders is better than the 3rd round receivers. That still leaves them a 1 and a 2 to draft a WR.

If they do not draft a big outside threat I'll be disappointed.

I was a big supporter of drafting two wrs.

Then we signed amendola, Jenkins, jones, and Edelman. If we sign sanders there is ZERO need at wr. We don't need four starters. We need two #2s who can compliment our FRANCHISE tight ends.

 

[Nunchucks]

To be fair with the deep throws, it appears he is overthrowing the receiver...that could just be that the outside receivers just doesn't have the wheels to catch up to the ball...Brady is being careful, because INTs are killers.

 

[Brady2Moss]

Have you looked at Brady's deep throws the past few years? He's done poorly, in particular in terms of accuracy. Maybe it was Moss? Well any of these guys Moss?

There is a salary cap. There are needs now or coming next year at:

CB, SS, MLB, DT, DE, LG, RG, WR, RB

If we sign Sanders we've got a top 3 offense worst case.

There are usually very few (1 or 2) WR's that have a big impact in their rookie year. With a team loaded - yes loaded with receivers (TE slots, RB) - how many throws is a "big outside threat" going to get? A rookie WR in Foxboro? Who was the last rookie WR that was well used here? Branch?

If BB drafts one, great, than he thought it was the best move. But if he doesn't, you ought to figure out why you think your opinion not being followed will be enough reason to come here and complain - again.

Outside threat doesn't mean he runs 100% streaks and Brady has to bomb it. How about a guy that can do a deep in cut and other intermediate-deep routes 20-30 yards downfield. Because right now the only guy we have that can do that is Gronk and sometimes Hernandez.

There's needs coming every year its the nature of the beast, outside receiver has been a need for years so how about plugging that hole up? You're really saying that this is a top 3 offense WORST CASE? How arrogant are you? They lost the one guy that was there 16 games a year to make this a top 3 offense every year, replaced with Amendola who can be great if he doesn't get hurt. Notice a trend? Doesn't get hurt?

Team desperately needs a big outside receiver that is a red zone threat otherwise they are screwed if Gronk goes down.

Ah there is the crux of it you have some bias against anyone that "complains" so you ignore all reason that an outside threat would help and put your hands on your ears screaming lalalala we have a top 3 offense regardless of whose on the field. Exactly Branch was the last guy, that doesn't mean rookies cannot do it, it means the scouting is terrible.

Also thanks for the "there is a salary cap" quip like a 2nd round WR is going to hurt this team capwise get a clue.

 

[Brady2Moss]

I was a big supporter of drafting two wrs.

Then we signed amendola, Jenkins, jones, and Edelman. If we sign sanders there is ZERO need at wr. We don't need four starters. We need two #2s who can compliment our FRANCHISE tight ends.

Jenkins and Jones are not guys to be counted on to be anything more than Branch and Stallworth of this years team. That leaves 2 slot guys that can sometimes play outside. The FRANCHISE tight ends are always hurt, you need a contingency plan for when they inevitably are not on the field. We just lost the one guy who was always on the field to keep the offense moving.

If you don't think WR is a need, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Deus Irae]

Is this opinion or fact? I was under the impression that statements of fact require a link. Link, please.

Feel free to go look at the posting history from back when the Patriots were cutting Galloway loose and people here were insisting that Aiken would be fine as the replacement, and then moving forward.