Cap Page Help Requested

[Miguel]

For the life of me I can not figure out why my numbers are off by $1.6 million.

I have the Pats under their adjusted cap by about $8.6 million. According to
https://www.nflplayers.com/reports/RunPublicReport.aspx?report=top51 they are actually under the cap by around $6.9 million.

Please take a look at http://www.patscap.com/2013capinfo.xlsx and see if you find the error of my ways. I am hoping that another set(s) of eyes will help.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

I tried to take a look, but the link to the cap page keeps shutting down.

Sorry I couldn't help although, if it has you stumped i'm sure i'd be of no assistance.

 

[DocHoliday]

If it's any consolation, I'm off too. I have them at $7,197,004 pre-Edelman.

I looked at your spreadsheet and my first thought is that your adjusted cap is high. According to the page you linked, their adjusted cap should be $127,850,321. You're about two million higher.

Rollover is: $5,607,914.00
Adjusted cap (pre-rollover): $122,242,407.00
Add them and you get $127,850,321

When I correct for that your numbers fall in place. Which also brings me to another dillemma - it seems to me that the patriots have actually lost cap space due to bonus adjustments rather than gain them as your earlier stats suggest (unless I was misreading them). I did some quick math, and roughly assuming the NFL's numbers are correct (lol) and LTBE/NLTBE is the only thing that changes the cap number before rollover, then the patriots lost $757,593 to incentives.

 

[Fencer]

Why do Cole & Koutivides have cap charges so low? Any chance you misapplied the min-salary vet subsidy rule?

 

[Miguel]

If it's any consolation, I'm even further off than you Miguel. I have them at 9.1 million pre-Edelman and I can't figure out why. My Top 51 cap hit is $112 m and yours seems to be $114. hmm.

I looked at your spreadsheet and my first thought is that your adjusted cap is high. According to the page you linked, their adjusted cap should be $127,850,321. You're about two million higher.

Remaining salary-cap space for each NFL team - NFL.com

is the basis for my Patriots adjusted cap number.

 

[Miguel]

Why do Cole & Koutivides have cap charges so low? Any chance you misapplied the min-salary vet subsidy rule?

I'm pretty sure that those numbers are correct

Contract catch-up: Jenkins, Cole & Niko - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

 

[eom]

I'm actually a little drunk, but for one thing, you have 51 accounted for, I think, and they have 49 contracts listed.
so, there's 2 loose guys unaccounted for.

also, this might be the wrong direction, but does sanders count already?

 

[Big Bucks]

What does the 2013LTBE mean?

It adds up to 1.7m

Ninkovich I have seen elsewhere has a cap hit of 2,166,666, you have added the 900k in the column. Without the 900k you would be the same as elsewhere.

 

[Miguel]

I'm actually a little drunk, but for one thing, you have 51 accounted for, I think, and they have 49 contracts listed.
so, there's 2 loose guys unaccounted for.

also, this might be the wrong direction, but does sanders count already?

Sanders is counting already. The current contracts just list signed contracts. It does not include the tendered players like Hoomanawanui, Michael and Emmanuel Sanders.

 

[Miguel]

What does the 2013LTBE mean?

It adds up to 1.7m

Ninkovich I have seen elsewhere has a cap hit of 2,166,666, you have added the 900k in the column. Without the 900k you would be the same as elsewhere.

LTBE stands for Likely to Be Earned Incentive.

 

[Aßßynormal]

Sanders is counting already. The current contracts just list signed contracts. It does not include the tendered players like Hoomanawanui, Michael and Emmanuel Sanders.

1) What is the resolution of Johnathon Fanene as of today? He had dead money in 2012 as well, could that have been added back?

2) Why is Sanders counting already? Although, he was taken down from RFA listings on a Pittsburgh's team website (per a Pitt visiting poster). Sander's contract isn't official yet, I would assume.

You say (quoted above) that Sanders is and he is not counting (I believe).

3) I would think it should include Hoomanawanu (Franchise tags are included aren't they?). Fanene + Hoomanawanu?

 

[Aßßynormal]

Remaining salary-cap space for each NFL team - NFL.com

is the basis for my Patriots adjusted cap number.

Remaining salary-cap space for each NFL team

NFL.com
Published: March 27, 2013 at 06:57 p.m.
Updated: March 27, 2013 at 09:00 p.m.

Are your dates matched? It looks like you made the adjustment but I'd check. I would go back to March 27th and see if the problem is still there (as of that date). If so, then the problem is before that date (3/27) and if they match on 3/27 then the difference occurred in transactions after that date.

 

[Miguel]

1) What is the resolution of Johnathon Fanene as of today? He had dead money in 2012 as well, could that have been added back?

There has been no resolution

[2) Why is Sanders counting already? Although, he was taken down from RFA listings on a Pittsburgh's team website (per a Pitt visiting poster). Sander's contract isn't official yet, I would assume.

It became official yesterday. Tender offers count against the cap as soon as they are made. Right now, Sanders is counting $1.323 million against the Steelers cap and $2.5 million against the Patriots

 

[Miguel]

Remaining salary-cap space for each NFL team

NFL.com
Published: March 27, 2013 at 06:57 p.m.
Updated: March 27, 2013 at 09:00 p.m.

Are your dates matched? It looks like you made the adjustment but I'd check. I would go back to March 27th and see if the problem is still there (as of that date). If so, then the problem is before that date (3/27) and if they match on 3/27 then the difference occurred in transactions after that date.

My numbers stop being close on the 27th.

 

[Aßßynormal]

My numbers stop being close on the 27th.

If they were close before 3/27 then it's from the period of your last cross-check (with a source you trust ) and 3/27.

 

[Miguel]

If they were close before 3/27 then it's from the period of your last cross-check (with a source you trust ) and 3/27.

And yet I can not find the difference,. Hence, this request for help.

 

[Deus Irae]

And yet I can not find the difference,. Hence, this request for help.

I didn't do a full breakdown for you, sorry, but I'm swamped right now. I did notice, however, that you and Jason differ on the following players from the 51 (your numbers first):

Amendola (3,573,750 v. 3,543,750)
Gronk (2,700,000 v. 2,750,000)
McCourty (1,845,800 v. 1,845,000)
McDonald (656,668 v. 630,000)
Ballard (555,000 v. 630,000)
Koutouvides (580,000 v. 620,000)
Bequette (619,950 v. 614,950)
Cole (570,000 v. 620,000)

Totals 11,101,168 v. 11,253,700

That would lead to a total difference of 152,532 from that group, if my quick addition is correct.

I hope that helps, and I'll try to take a closer look at all the numbers tomorrow (probably won't be free enough until Friday, but I'll try).

 

[mgteich]

The differences between Miguel and Jason are minimal as you found. I could check them all if that will help. However, Jason's total is $10,263,950 less $2,500,000 for Sanders or $8.8M. Miguel is at $8.6M.

What I would need to seriously help is to have an analysis that totals the $6.9M. I guess that isn't out there or Miguel would have used it himself.

I didn't do a full breakdown for you, sorry, but I'm swamped right now. I did notice, however, that you and Jason differ on the following players from the 51 (your numbers first):

Amendola (3,573,750 v. 3,543,750)
Gronk (2,700,000 v. 2,750,000)
McCourty (1,845,800 v. 1,845,000)
McDonald (656,668 v. 630,000)
Ballard (555,000 v. 630,000)
Koutouvides (580,000 v. 620,000)
Bequette (619,950 v. 614,950)
Cole (570,000 v. 620,000)

Totals 11,101,168 v. 11,253,700

That would lead to a total difference of 152,532 from that group, if my quick addition is correct.

I hope that helps, and I'll try to take a closer look at all the numbers tomorrow (probably won't be free enough until Friday, but I'll try).

 

[Deus Irae]

The differences between Miguel and Jason are minimal as you found. I could check them all if that will help. However, Jason's total is $10,263,950 less $2,500,000 for Sanders or $8.8M. Miguel is at $8.6M.

What I would need to seriously help is to have an analysis that totals the $6.9M. I guess that isn't out there or Miguel would have used it himself.

Well, when you're looking for exact accuracy, comparing to other cap guys helps to get there, so checking the numbers was worthwhile. Both Jason and Miguel are about 2.5 different from the NFLPA site, which likely means that either they have both missed the same item (hence their overall closeness in dollars) or the NFLPA has been carrying an error for a bit of time.

That's what I'll look into tomorrow, if I have the time.

 

[mgteich]

fair enough.

I did this 3 or 4 weeks ago, but much has changed since then.

Well, when you're looking for exact accuracy, comparing to other cap guys helps to get there, so checking the numbers was worthwhile. Both Jason and Miguel are about 2.5 different from the NFLPA site, which likely means that either they have both missed the same item (hence their overall closeness in dollars) or the NFLPA has been carrying an error for a bit of time.

That's what I'll look into tomorrow, if I have the time.