RFA Emmanuel Sanders visits Pats 3/16; signs offer sheet 4/10, sheet matched 4/14

[BadMoFo]

You don't think Donald Jones is going to make the team?

Unless he's got some serious health condition, I think the guy will fit in nicely as a #3.

Through the years, I've seen free agents and draft picks that looked like sure bets cut before the season, so nothing would surprise me.

 

[bagwell368]

Then again, the Dolphins chose a 2nd rounder over Welker, so sometimes teams make mistakes

This statement actually makes no sense. Miami was never going to be able to get what the Pats got out of Welker. I thought it was a 2nd and a 5th BTW.

 

[Spergon Wynn]

So if the Steelers don't Match. I guessing there is about a 90% chance the Pats are trading out of the first round then.

I'd expect that even if they do match. Given that every one seems to be trade-down happy, it may be more difficult than we assume.

 

[Triumph]

Re: Pats submit offer sheet for Emmanuel Sanders

Don't see it they are not going to give him that kind of money(franchise). My guess is they add more years to the deal. I guess it makes sense so they don't match that you do a one year offer( no backloading of contract) but to lose a 3rd and no plan in place to extend would not be smart.

Love the move lets see what comes next IF Pit doesn't match.

Why cant they franchise and trade Sanders lieu of letting him walk?

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm not sure if I like this move, for several reasons:

1) This draft is incredibly deep with a lot of playmakers of all sizes. If the Pats trade out of the 1st round (pretty much a certainty if Pitt doesn't match), I hope they still use a high pick on a WR. So many talented receivers available.

2) I know what people are going to say, they rather depend on a veteran than a rookie trying to learn the system and be productive. Well, it's been proven that even Hall Of Fame WR's (Ocho) couldn't learn our system and be productive. So who's to say Sanders could do any better learning the system, and be more productive, than any of the receivers available in the draft ? Gronkowski and Hernandez had no problems learning the system and being productive as rookies.

3) Sanders never was an incredibly productive receiver, with his best season being last season. 44 catches and ONE TD. Averages 31 catches and 1.7 td's a season. Why all the hype and excitement, and he's injury prone, I don't really get it. Plus, with it being for only 1 year, if he has a huge year, no guarantees he signs an extension next season.

I really don't find this to be a smart move. Really don't like it. I hope Pitt matches, but I doubt they do, because they realize that a 3rd round pick for a receiver that is injury prone and really isn't a great player, is a good smart financial move for them. They could probably get a better receiver with that 3rd round pick.

Pittsburgh can take a 3rd round pick in a WR deep draft, which would allow them to package a higher pick for a move to acquire a safety and still draft a WR, or they can pay $4 million for a WR3 with a history of leg/foot problems. If you look at Pittsburgh's position from a BB-like perspective, they're probably better off letting Sanders go and taking the Patriots' pick, because they trust their front office.

 

[patfanken]

Very mixed emotions on this one. Some comments on the comments

1. I have been a STRONG proponent for getting bigger at WR. Clearly this move doesn't fit my approach.

2. Going into this draft with only 4 picks and only 2 that will likely make the team, doesn't make me feel very comfortable, and will certainly make this years' draft a LOT less interesting to follow, BUT, with the FA pick ups, and the solid young roster that we have, I don't see that a depleted draft this ONE year, will have any long term effects

3. While Sanders isn't exactly my cup of tea, I reject the idea that some have floated that his "skill set" doesn't fit the Pats offense. On the contrary, his skill set is EXACTLY what the Pats have looked for the past several years - a smaller quicker receiver. Think Deion Branch at 26, only faster, and that's what we have in Sanders.

4. Now the issue becomes, ASSUMING Sanders truly is the 2nd coming of Deion Branch in his prime, is that the kind of skill set we need in our offense.

5. The second issue becomes, IS whatever money we end up paying Sanders, worth the production we get from what will arguably be our 3rd or 4th option on most downs, plus a low 3rd round pick.

6. I think that his move eliminates the chances of Lloyd coming back, but I still think that Edelman would be a nice resigning for his familiarity with the system and special teams play

 

[JMC00]

The Patriots gave him a three-year deal with essentially zero guarantees, so even they're not convinced he's gonna make the roster.

Or Jones just took the Pats first offer and surprised them but not even looking for guaranteed money.

 

[Triumph]

I dont like drafting and depending on a rookie WR for couple of reasons.

1. The Pats have sucked at drafting that position. Branch and Givens were 10 years ago.

2. IF the Pats were able to hit on a player, the rookie wall is very real assuming the Pats make the post season.

 

[Shockt327]

This statement actually makes no sense. Miami was never going to be able to get what the Pats got out of Welker. I thought it was a 2nd and a 5th BTW.

2nd and a 7th.

 

[patfanken]

Pittsburgh can take a 3rd round pick in a WR deep draft, which would allow them to package a higher pick for a move to acquire a safety and still draft a WR, or they can pay $4 million for a WR3 with a history of leg/foot problems. If you look at Pittsburgh's position from a BB-like perspective, they're probably better off letting Sanders go and taking the Patriots' pick, because they trust their front office.

They can trust their front office all they want, but fact remains that for THIS year at least, they are NOT going to find a WR at #91 who will impact their offense.

The draft might eventually solve the Steelers' WR problems, but it won't be THIS season. Instant successes at WR are rare to begin with. And when they do occur, they are generally guys who go in the top 10 picks.

Certainly you can get some great WR's 91 and below, but they almost ALWAYS take a few years to develop into great ones. If you are VERY lucky, you might get one who becomes a key contributor in their 2nd year, like Randell Cobb

 

[DW Toys]

Re: Pats submit offer sheet for Emmanuel Sanders

Someone with better cap knowledge can correct me: Could it be that it's a one year deal because that means the cap hit is 100% on this year, which makes it tougher for the Steelers to match? Then they could renegotiate an extension after the deal is done? Is that allowed or does it even make sense?

Excellent thought. Good post.
Here is another tid bit of intrigue. The League has taken a big P.R. hit on the fact that the RFA market is now considered taboo by the Teams. It was dying on the vine. In the back of my mind, one might wonder if the League is cheerleading this move?

I think the Pats wanted Deion Branch II (Sanders)and they wanted to test the rest of the FA pool to dig anyone else out. After The Kelly signing, the next day we get the Sanders offer. Sanders and Branch have almost the same measurables with Sanders being taller and Branch a few pounds heavier.

With this signing if it goes through, it mostly precludes the Pats of going higher round on a Draft WR. And that is a good thing as we have all noted.

It Sanders works, the Pats had a darned good free agent season:

They resigned or resigned:
04/10/2013 Signed RFA E.Sanders WR to offer sheet
04/10/2013 Signed free agent DT Tommy Kelly
03/28/2013 Signed free agent WR Michael Jenkins
03/26/2013 Re-signed unrestricted free agent tackle Sebastian Vollmer
03/20/2013 Re-signed unrestricted free agents CB Marquice Cole and LB Niko Koutouvides.
03/18/2013 Signed free agent OT Will Svitek.
03/16/2013 Re-signed CB Aqib Talib and CB Kyle Arrington; Signed free agent S Adrian Wilson.
03/15/2013 Signed free agent WR Donald Jones.
03/14/2013 Signed free agent RB Leon Washington
03/14/2013 Signed WR Danny Amendola as an unrestricted free agent.
02/19/2013 Signed DL Jason Vega
02/01/2013 Signed DL Armond Armstead.

I think they do two more moves before the Draft and resign Julian Edelman and John Abraham and we are at CAP pending any Fenene relief.

A WR is not a dire need. Now I will suspect BB will go into trade down mode which is fun time for Bill and get a perhaps a DE like Margus Hunt, an OLB with coverage skills like a Collins, a later round WR and a developmental Safety.

The effects of losing our third round pick? The wild card is Mallett. OK We lose our third rounder for Sanders. It makes all the sense in the world to trade Mallett now. His measurables match or near Smith with 100 less passes in his last year in the SEC. He has had O'Brien, McDaniel and Brady for teachers and a few years of actual NFL camp. He might be the best QB if you include him in this class this year.

Why would he stay past 2013 when he is a FA in 2014? He was picked just for this as a future trade chip. The Pats re-upped with Brady for another 3.

The Browns are still the option I think. Campbell is not a starter nor is Weeden. They dumped McCoy. Browns and Pats swap picks in round one and throw in a needed RB to the Browns like a Bolden to back up to Richardson, and to sweeten the pot. And the deal is done. The Browns needed a QB and RB and don't have a two. Smart move by Lombardi.

Watch the fun begin if BB gets that #6 pick and opens up the store.

DW Toys

 

[chasa]

Or Jones just took the Pats first offer and surprised them but not even looking for guaranteed money.

Jones probably saw that his team was the 3rd or 4th team in the east, just got rid of their qb and coaching staff and said to himself, do i want to learn a new offense on a loser, or do I want to try and play with tom ******* brady.

I'd take the non guarenteed money and playing with brady over a little bit of money up front and catching "passes" from kolb or tavaris jackson

 

[Shockt327]

3. While Sanders isn't exactly my cup of tea, I reject the idea that some have floated that his "skill set" doesn't fit the Pats offense. On the contrary, his skill set is EXACTLY what the Pats have looked for the past several years - a smaller quicker receiver. Think Deion Branch at 26, only faster, and that's what we have in Sanders.

4. Now the issue becomes, ASSUMING Sanders truly is the 2nd coming of Deion Branch in his prime, is that the kind of skill set we need in our offense.

Emmanuel Sanders style of play has nothing in common with Deion Branch. You may as well compare Mike Wallace to Steve Smith, or something.

 

[UK_Pat37]

I'm not sure if I like this move, for several reasons:

1) This draft is incredibly deep with a lot of playmakers of all sizes. If the Pats trade out of the 1st round (pretty much a certainty if Pitt doesn't match), I hope they still use a high pick on a WR. So many talented receivers available.

2) I know what people are going to say, they rather depend on a veteran than a rookie trying to learn the system and be productive. Well, it's been proven that even Hall Of Fame WR's (Ocho) couldn't learn our system and be productive. So who's to say Sanders could do any better learning the system, and be more productive, than any of the receivers available in the draft ? Gronkowski and Hernandez had no problems learning the system and being productive as rookies.

3) Sanders never was an incredibly productive receiver, with his best season being last season. 44 catches and ONE TD. Averages 31 catches and 1.7 td's a season. Why all the hype and excitement, and he's injury prone, I don't really get it. Plus, with it being for only 1 year, if he has a huge year, no guarantees he signs an extension next season.

I really don't find this to be a smart move. Really don't like it. I hope Pitt matches, but I doubt they do, because they realize that a 3rd round pick for a receiver that is injury prone and really isn't a great player, is a good smart financial move for them. They could probably get a better receiver with that 3rd round pick.

Wes Welker averaged less than one TD a season before we signed him.

In fact, in his first three seasons in the NFL, Sanders has scored five TDs...five mroe than Welker had scored at this stage in his career. He had zero. Oh, and we paid more for him in terms of draft picks.

These points aren't very valid at all.

I like Sanders. He brings a lot to the table. He's the 'perfect fit' some might even say. Competed in all 16 games last year, a pretty decent yardage total considering he's a 3rd/4th option...I'm not completely upset about it. He's going to come here to a better QB with a better O Line.

 

[Sicilian]

This statement actually makes no sense. Miami was never going to be able to get what the Pats got out of Welker. I thought it was a 2nd and a 5th BTW.

It was a 2nd and a 7th.

Regardless, it's certainly reasonable to assume Welker never would have had the same production in Miami. But perhaps the mistake the Dolphins made was not finding the best way to use him, which was my point. In reality, I was just making a jokey little comment

 

[BradyFTW!]

I don't like this signing. Giving up a third rounder for a one-year rental is risky as hell, even if you do believe that you can re-sign him. I'd be (cautiously) for it, though, if it was for a player with more production and less injury history in his young career than Sanders has. Best case scenario is that he pulls a Welker, which is great right up until we have to re-sign him next offseason and pay him a bunch of money. For that alone, I would have felt better about a 3-4 year deal that makes it possible for the Pats to cut him and escape with minimal damage to the cap after 1-2 years.

 

[Deus Irae]

I dont like drafting and depending on a rookie WR for couple of reasons.

1. The Pats have sucked at drafting that position. Branch and Givens were 10 years ago.

2. IF the Pats were able to hit on a player, the rookie wall is very real assuming the Pats make the post season.

Sanders played in 13 games as a rookie. He had 28 catches and 2 TDs, averaging 13.4 ypc. Last year, playing a full season, he had 44 catches and 1 TD, averaging 14.2 ypc. That's not much development, so the Patriots are having to project this kid's numbers without Wallace and Brown.

This is a very unBelichickian move, and we'd probably all be laughing at the Steelers if the situation was reversed.

 

[TruthSeeker]

They can trust their front office all they want, but fact remains that for THIS year at least, they are NOT going to find a WR at #91 who will impact their offense.

The draft might eventually solve the Steelers' WR problems, but it won't be THIS season. Instant successes at WR are rare to begin with. And when they do occur, they are generally guys who go in the top 10 picks.

Certainly you can get some great WR's 91 and below, but they almost ALWAYS take a few years to develop into great ones. If you are VERY lucky, you might get one who becomes a key contributor in their 2nd year, like Randell Cobb

The Steelers hit a home run with Mike Wallace 3 years ago, I believe around pick 84 or later. They are quite good at finding receivers that produce as rookies. Watch them pick Da'Rick Rogers or Aaron Dobson 91st overall.

 

[Sciz]

Emmanuel Sanders style of play has nothing in common with Deion Branch. You may as well compare Mike Wallace to Steve Smith, or something.

They were used differently (Sanders in the slot, Branch not), but from a physical standpoint, Sanders is about as close to Branch as it gets in the NFL when it comes to speed and change of direction numbers. I think part of why the Pats are making this move is that they think Sanders is undervalued since he's only been in the slot, but that the Pats can get a lot more out of him if they put him outside.

 

[patfanken]

Emmanuel Sanders style of play has nothing in common with Deion Branch. You may as well compare Mike Wallace to Steve Smith, or something.

I disagee, but you are entitled to your opinion

BTW- note to the mods, this topic deserves its own thread and should be separated at the point where it was reported that the offer sheet was signed.