How much confidence does Brady have in his receivers

[JoeSixPat]

Really? Then its possible that we can trade for Chad Johnson, Reggie Wayne, Torry Holt and Larry Fitzgerald's right?

Yes - the price would be outrageously high but anything's possible.

FYI - There's no "list" of players available for trade. All plyers are available - at the right price... though often that price is too high to pay.

 

[DarrylS]

FWIW, don't know if you can discount Chad Jackson based on a rookie performance, consider the following:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/wrindex.htm

Some players noted here, in their first years, all pretty good recievers:

Chris Carter 1987 5 Receptions
Jerry Rice 1985 49 Receptions
Troy Brown 1993 0 Receptions
1994 0 Rec
1995 14 Rec
Tim Brown 1988 43 Rec
David Givens 2002 9 rec


It is difficult to figure out if we have a Donald Hayes here or a Jerry Rice, he needs to show us something next year. The Colstons et al, are phenoms and due all the credit they deserve.

I do not see the Pats making a big free agency splurge for a wr, they have a core of three and will seek complimentary players.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

when you say 'receivers' do you mean TB is working with Gisele and some else?

I think Stallworth is being too easily dismissed here. In the same number of seasons (5) as Gaffney and Caldwell he has amassed much better numbers while playing with whacky Aaron Brooks as his QB. And it's not even close - Donte has many more total yards, receptions, a much higher yds/catch average and 28 TD's - 6 more than Caldwell and Gaffney combined. I thought Stallworth really helped the Eagles stretch their passing attack and showed some leadership and steadiness for their young and undistinguished WR corps. If we are willing to say that TB improved the play of Gaffney and Caldwell, then our QB expanding Stallworth's performance would put Donte in a class neither Reche or Jabar can rival. Certainly, Stallworth is more of legit downfield threat than Caldwell or Gaffney. I think he'd be a very good signing.

 

[Michigan Dave]

I'd say he had a decent amount of confidence. You don't throw that 3rd down pass to Caldwell in San Diego if you have no confidence he'll make the play. While it wouldn't hurt to add another able body if anything to provide depth, I wouldn't want it at the expense of a position we really need to strengthen (LB, DB). I think there were deeper problems than just WRs dropping balls. That is just our most recent problem, because it just happened. Our offense was schizophrenic all season. It would go from unstoppable (Cincinnati, Minnesota) to dreadful (Miami) and the final game of the season was just a smaller sample of that.

 

[cstjohn17]

Yes, I see REALITY as a whole and well, you see the glass only half empty.

Did you stop to think that maybe there wasn't a player the Pats felt was GOOD ENOUGH for their system and that attempting to negotiate with Branch and Givens after the lost out on Mason WAS Plan B? Or maybe mason was Plan B to the Pats not getting Branch and Givens to agree to contracts after the season 2 years ago? Nope. I didn't think so.

Realist is not a term that jumps to mind. Just my opinion but your posts paint you as a Kool-Aid guzzler and a BB/SP apologist. There is nothing wrong with that, I am more skeptical (glass 1/2 empty, quite possibly), the truth is likely in the middle.

The second paragraph is a great example of your approach, it usually goes something like "The Pats were right.." followed by some made up rambling about their perspective.

My point for both Walker and Mason, the only part that we really know for sure is that they did not get either player. Because they came up short they must shoulder some of the blame.

 

[SeanBruschi54]

His 19.1 average last year looks pretty good to me. He may not be a #1 but I think he'd be our best as of now.

Stallworth's numbers look good on paper but when you look behind the numbers you realize that he really isnt that good. Donovan threw so many long balls to him that it inflated his numbers to look like he was a great WR.

Lets look at some numbers.

Stallworth had a huge amount of receptions last year with 38!!! WOW!

I could get 38 receptions from Donovan if they threw me in there for throw it deep situations.

But of those 38 receptions 14 of which were for over 20 yards or more and another 4 catches were over 40 yards or more. Thats 18 catches. nearly half of his catches were for long pass attempts.

Okay maybe you like that sort of player. Maybe you feel the Patriots want to spend a ton of money on a long ball guy. Thats great and all but what can he do in the short passing game that makes Tom so effective.

In a word he is terrible. He cant make the catch and run for the first down he makes a catch for says 3 yards and maybe gets an extra yard. While guys like Gaffney Reche Troy and others somehow always seem to be getting extra yardage out of a play.

I went back and added up all those 20+ yard bomb play and it comes out to be 493 yards for him. 493!
So if i took away his long plays, so 725 - 493 is 232 yards.
232 divided by 20 (his receptions not over 20 yards) he only averages an 11.6 YPC average.

To have you better understand that Jabar, Troy Brown, Chad Jackson, Reche Caldwell all put up better numbers.

Trust me you dont want this guy. The numbers look good but theres a story behind the numbers.

 

[Oswlek]

Talk is cheap, in free agency there is no second place. Trying is not good enough, if they think the WRs are weak then they should bring someone in to improve the unit. In both years 2005 & 2006 they came very close, maybe one more play maker would have made a difference.

Back to the original question, I think Brady is going to find a beach, a bottle and a blonde and unwind somewhere for a month. He took and emotional and physical beating this year. His confidence level with Reche and Jabar has likely improved but it would be interesting to find out what he thinks of Jackson. An entire offseason with these guys should help a lot, throw in a FA and a rookie and the unit should be ok. There will be no Branch drama this year, all the while I think he was convinced Branch was coming back. He will never let himself get so emotionally attached to an outgoing free agent, once bitten, twice shy.

Wow. I am sorry but that is competely wrong.

Walker never came here because he was advised not to by Branch. Mason was offered more from NE than he was by Baltimore but chose them. Do you really blame NE for either of those transactions not coming to fruition?

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

I went back and added up all those 20+ yard bomb play and it comes out to be 493 yards for him. 493!
So if i took away his long plays, so 725 - 493 is 232 yards.
232 divided by 20 (his receptions not over 20 yards) he only averages an 11.6 YPC average.

You may well be right but taking away all his big plays is a little unfair

On Football Outsiders he has a hideous catch % of 49% - most decent WR are in the 60-65% range.

A FA sleeper could have been Dennis Northcut as he's he small quick type we like who is also a top PR - but his catch% is also below 50% - although the sh!tty QB in Cleveland may give him a bit of an out there. Northcutt was 4th in the league in PR average; Faulk was 6th.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

Call me cynical but I don't believe Branch called Walker and tried to talk to him out of coming here.

I have no reason not to believe it. Branch wanted a big contract and having a better WR than him on the other side of the field wasn't the path to getting it.

 

[Oswlek]

I have no reason not to believe it. Branch wanted a big contract and having a better WR than him on the other side of the field wasn't the path to getting it.

What cst doesn't seem to realize is that guys may be enemies inside the lines, but when matters of money are discussed, players are best friends.

 

[SeanBruschi54]

You may well be right but taking away all his big plays is a little unfair

On Football Outsiders he has a hideous catch % of 49% - most decent WR are in the 60-65% range.

A FA sleeper could have been Dennis Northcut as he's he small quick type we like who is also a top PR - but his catch% is also below 50% - although the sh!tty QB in Cleveland may give him a bit of an out there. Northcutt was 4th in the league in PR average; Faulk was 6th.

It might be unfair but its a way too look at a player not invloved in a west coast offense. What i did would give you the true stats for a team like ours.

Dennis Northcutt would be fine as long as he never sees the field as a WR.

 

[cstjohn17]

Wow. I am sorry but that is competely wrong.

Walker never came here because he was advised not to by Branch. Mason was offered more from NE than he was by Baltimore but chose them. Do you really blame NE for either of those transactions not coming to fruition?

I must be the most cynical person in the world and missed by daily shot of Kool-aid.

I think I said "Talk is cheap, in free agency there is no second place. Trying is not good enough, if they think the WRs are weak then they should bring someone in to improve the unit. In both years 2005 & 2006 they came very close, maybe one more play maker would have made a difference."

Mason - With Mason there was not much more they could do, what man whats to go against his wife. Can you imagine what your life would be like if you made her move to a place she wasn't interested in? Trust me, it would be hell. I don't blame them for not landing Mason but question there plan after missing out. No one of any significance was brought in at WR in 2005, the plan B is what I question.

Walker - I don't think Branch called Walker. I think the Broncos made a stronger run at him and were aggressive enough to land him. Maybe blame is a strong word but I would at a minimum put some responsibility on the Patriots.

That makes it two years in a row they tried to get a 1, 1A type WR and came up short. Both years they restocked with players who could be considerd a 2nd ,3rd or 4th WR.

 

[cstjohn17]

What cst doesn't seem to realize is that guys may be enemies inside the lines, but when matters of money are discussed, players are best friends.

I understand players loyalty and don't blame them. They have only a few chances to make money and should take it when they can.

I don't believe Branch called Walker, it sounds like an internet rumor.
"BB is leaving..."
"SP is leaving..."
"The Pats are trading for Randy Moss..."
"Roswell"
etc., etc., etc.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

I understand players loyalty and don't blame them. They have only a few chances to make money and should take it when they can.

This wasn't about helping Walker get paid, this was about helping Branch get paid - he knew his numbers would drop with Walker on the other side - and we know how important money is to Mr. Branch.

 

[Oswlek]

I must be the most cynical person in the world and missed by daily shot of Kool-aid.

I think I said "Talk is cheap, in free agency there is no second place. Trying is not good enough, if they think the WRs are weak then they should bring someone in to improve the unit. In both years 2005 & 2006 they came very close, maybe one more play maker would have made a difference."

Mason - With Mason there was not much more they could do, what man whats to go against his wife. Can you imagine what your life would be like if you made her move to a place she wasn't interested in? Trust me, it would be hell. I don't blame them for not landing Mason but question there plan after missing out. No one of any significance was brought in at WR in 2005, the plan B is what I question.

Walker - I don't think Branch called Walker. I think the Broncos made a stronger run at him and were aggressive enough to land him. Maybe blame is a strong word but I would at a minimum put some responsibility on the Patriots.

That makes it two years in a row they tried to get a 1, 1A type WR and came up short. Both years they restocked with players who could be considerd a 2nd ,3rd or 4th WR.

The story that Branch called Walker came out more than 2 months prior to training camp. This isn't one of those "NE didn't land him so something else must have happened" type deals. Walker himself admitted that he missed several flights to NE and really never had all that much interest in coming here.

You can use circumstancial reasoning to fault NE for Walker, but you are incorrect. I'm sorry. You just are.

Now, if you believe that it was a mistake not to offer to tear up the final year of Branch's deal (which they did not do for Seymour of Brady, BTW) or you feel that NE should have gone after Stalworth or TO or someone else that NE most likely didn't even try, go ahead and make that case.

But just because a guy goes somewhere else does not mean a mistake was made. The other guys pay and get paid to.

 

[cstjohn17]

This wasn't about helping Walker get paid, this was about helping Branch get paid - he knew his numbers would drop with Walker on the other side - and we know how important money is to Mr. Branch.

I don't believe he called him. In the end for Walker and 99.99999% of all players seeking new contracts it came down to money, not #83 whispering in his ear.

 

[Oswlek]

I don't believe he called him. In the end for Walker and 99.99999% of all players seeking new contracts it came down to money, not #83 whispering in his ear.

Considering that Walker never even made a trip to NE, how did he know what NE was offering?

Even if you are right about Branch, doesn't Walker missing several flights to NE show that he wasn't that interested in coming to NE?

 

[cstjohn17]

Considering that Walker never even made a trip to NE, how did he know what NE was offering?

Even if you are right about Branch, doesn't Walker missing several flights to NE show that he wasn't that interested in coming to NE?

All I was trying to say is that in both 2005 & 2006 they tried to add a 1, 1A WR and fell short. They went after Mason and put a toe in the water with Walker. Both times they did not get the player and no comparable player was brought in to fill the roster void they perceived existed.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

I don't believe he called him. In the end for Walker and 99.99999% of all players seeking new contracts it came down to money, not #83 whispering in his ear.

Given that :

- Adam Shefter was the one who reported the call from Branch and, whatever you think of Shefter, he does have sources with the Broncos - and where did Walker end up ?

- Branch is all about the money and Walker coming to NE would have cost him money as a UFA.

- Walker never even showed up in NE, he didn't leave after not getting a decent offer. Given that he was coming off a torn ACL I doubt NE talked contract with him before he showed up for a physical.

1+1+1 = ?

For me the answer here is a clear 3.

 

[Oswlek]

All I was trying to say is that in both 2005 & 2006 they tried to add a 1, 1A WR and fell short. They went after Mason and put a toe in the water with Walker. Both times they did not get the player and no comparable player was brought in to fill the roster void they perceived existed.

Because no other player would fill the void. Building a team is not like shopping for a home when relocating. It isn't as if you absolutely have to have a house so when the first one falls through you scurry to find another one immediately.

NE felt that Walker and Mason provided good value and made a run at them. When they did not happen they clearly did not see as much value from some of the others on the market. Why sign an expensive WR if he will only duplicate what guys on the roster already do. Go after the guys that you feel will be worth the money and then go picking in the garbage bin.

Do you have an example of highly compensated WR that was available in the past two years that NE obviously missed on?

Again, if you are going to fault them, fault them for picking the wrong guys in the garbage bin, not for missing on the expensive guys.