Defense Proposal Question: hire Romeo Crenel as DC

[ATippett56]

2. Houston: Their defense set all types of records for being bad a few years ago. Wade Phillips comes in and they have a top 5 defense.

Thoughts?

Houston Texans recent NFL Drafts:

2009 1st Round - Brian Cushing
2009 2nd Round - Conner Barwin
2009 4th Round - Glover Quin
2010 1st Round - Kareem Jackson
2011 1st Round - JJ Watt
2011 2nd Round - Brooks Reed

Houston Texans recent unrestricted free agent acquisitions:

2011 - Cornerback Jonathan Joseph
2011 - Safety Danieal Manning

The Houston Texans rebuilt their defense via the NFL draft and a few key unrestricted free agents.

 

[mayoclinic]

Aside from maybe an improvement at DT next to Wilfork (and I'm not that low on Kyle Love either), the front seven is fine. I would like to eventually see a move back to the 3-4, but the front seven itself is stout. As you say, the secondary is a mess...

1. McCourty is awfully inconsistent and struggles in man coverage.

2. Arrington is one of the worst corners in the league.

3. Dowling is injury prone.

4. Dennard is a promising rookie.

5. Sterling Moore gets burned a lot and struggles with receivers he can't physically impose his will on.

6. Patrick Chung is bad against coverage and solid against the run. His skills don't exactly scream Pro Bowler in today's NFL.

7. Steve Gregory is just north of a JAG, has had injury issues throughout his time in the NFL, and was usually caught out of position with the Chargers.

That's six out of seven guys that regularly see playing time in the starting units that can either be replaced or improved upon. To expand on my position, many of the same compaints were made about Pees a few years back. One of the greatest defensive minds in the history of the game took over for him the next season. The results were largely the same. That same mind was the DC last year... he oversaw the second worst pass defense of all time. Again, it's not a coaching issue. It's a talent issue.

McCourty's been fine in a zone and promising at safety. And you left out Tavon Wilson, who has been quite good for a rookie so far. Dowling still has promise. Does the secondary need some new talent? Yes. Is there a base that we can build on? I think the answer is also yes.

 

[Kid~Brady]

Houston Texans recent NFL Drafts:


The Houston Texans rebuilt their defense via the NFL draft and a few key unrestricted free agents.

Maybe BB should take notes?

 

[ATippett56]

Maybe BB should take notes?

Compare the Houston Texans 2009 NFL Draft defensive selections in the first four rounds to the New England Patriots 2009 NFL Draft defensive selections in the first four rounds:

2nd Round - Patrick Chung
2nd Round - Ron Brace
2nd Round - Darius Butler
3rd Round - Tyrone McKenzie

 

[Kid~Brady]

Compare the Houston Texans 2009 NFL Draft defensive selections in the first four rounds to the New England Patriots 2009 NFL Draft defensive selections in the first four rounds:

2nd Round - Patrick Chung
2nd Round - Ron Brace
2nd Round - Darius Butler
3rd Round - Tyrone McKenzie

I'll take that as a yes.

 

[ralmat55]

...

1. McCourty is awfully inconsistent and struggles in man coverage.

2. Arrington is one of the worst corners in the league.

3. Dowling is injury prone.

4. Dennard is a promising rookie.

5. Sterling Moore gets burned a lot and struggles with receivers he can't physically impose his will on.

6. Patrick Chung is bad against coverage and solid against the run. His skills don't exactly scream Pro Bowler in today's NFL.

7. Steve Gregory is just north of a JAG, has had injury issues throughout his time in the NFL, and was usually caught out of position with the Chargers.

That's six out of seven guys that regularly see playing time in the starting units that can either be replaced or improved upon. To expand on my position, many of the same compaints were made about Pees a few years back. One of the greatest defensive minds in the history of the game took over for him the next season. The results were largely the same. That same mind was the DC last year... he oversaw the second worst pass defense of all time. Again, it's not a coaching issue. It's a talent issue.

"One of the greatest defensive minds in the history of the game" The key word in that description is HISTORY. Frankly, Bill Belichick hasn't had a clue on how to slow an NFL passing offense since the NFL told defensive backs to take their hands off receivers and keep them off 8 or 9 years ago.

He clings to his old bend-don't-break and coverage first-rush second strategies that simply don't work in a league where the rules won't let you cover or even intimidate anyone.

The reason the Pats pass defense is historically bad is coaching first and foremost.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

There are good defensive minds out there. Look at what Vic Fangio has done with San Francisco. The key is rapport with BB. That makes it much, much tricker. I don't know the answer to your question.

Harbaugh is a former QB turned offensive minded HC. He has to have a guy come in with a vision and in this case it was his college DC. Who didn't have a ton of success earlier in his coaching career...but landed amidst a pile of talent this time around. Fangio is 54 and had been at it a long time.

From 1979 to 1981 he was the Linebackers and defensive coordinator at Dunmore High School. In 1982 he was the defensive coordinator at Milford Academy and in 1984 he became the Baltimore Stars defensive assistant coach. From 1986 to 1994 he joined the NFL as the New Orleans Saints' linebackers coach, then went on to become the defensive coordinator for the Carolina Panthers (1995–98), Indianapolis Colts (1999-01) and the Houston Texans (2002–05). In 2006 he was hired to become special assistant to head coach of the Baltimore Ravens. In 2010 he was the defensive coordinator for the Stanford Cardinals and in 2011 he followed Jim Harbaugh to the San Francisco 49ers when he was hired as the head coach.

Same deal with Reid in Philly, who gave Jim Johnson complete autonomy on defense because offense supposedly was his expertise, which is why they have sucked since he lost that guy on D (not to mention since he lost his own fastball on offensive genius). Belichick was a great defensive mind long before landing here or landing his first HC gig. RAC and even Charlie, not so much. But they were guys who knew how to do what he wanted done. Which only happens when you've worked with him in the system he developed within or worked your way up for him between the late eighties and the present... The veteran exceptions are guys like Pees who worked with someone who did (Saban). Heck, Saban is even where Josh came from after a two year stint as an offensive assistant at Michigan State. Coaching is a fraternity and guys stick with what they know unless they don't know and then they find someone they can work with who appears to.

Patricia came here from Syracuse so I'm not sure what the draw was. But he's been here since 2006 so what you see is what he has learned on Bill's terms. Supposedly he is one of the typically bright and hard working guys out of the Mangini, McDaniels mold. But he is presently making the most he can out of the hand he is dealt by his mentor the HC and GM and periodically DC hereabouts.

If Belichick thought it was push back or ideas he lacked he has a long list of associates he can jam ideas with. The genius game plan we all miss from the first SB was something he hit on while musing about how you could stop that Rams offense if you got a second shot at them...with Ernie and Saban. RAC was just the installer. And he had the tools at hand to do the job. Huge difference between then and now. And that's not to say RAC is the village idiot. Just not the missing link, either.

Rappore is always key, and that's why Ron Rivera didn't stick as a DC in Chicago even though the D was elite. He and former DC turned HC Lovie Smith didn't see eye to eye.

 

[Boomer B]

I think it's a drafting issue. I was watching a sports talk show and they were discussing this same issue.

Belichick likes to draft "4 down players". He used this expression after drafting McCourty. He also likes his CBs to be able to defend the run.

Maybe he needs to rethink what he is looking for in a DB. Asante Samuel was the best DB he's drafted and Samuel was horrible against the run and didn't play special teams. When drafting a DB, Belichick should look at strictly how good is the player at defending the pass, especially on DB picks in the first 3 - 4 rounds. If they are good on special teams or against the run then that is a bonus.

 

[ATippett56]

I'll take that as a yes.

Thus, the New England Patriots defensive issues stem from a lack of talent not a lack of coaching.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

"One of the greatest defensive minds in the history of the game" The key word in that description is HISTORY. Frankly, Bill Belichick hasn't had a clue on how to slow an NFL passing offense since the NFL told defensive backs to take their hands off receivers and keep them off 8 or 9 years ago.

He clings to his old bend-don't-break and coverage first-rush second strategies that simply don't work in a league where the rules won't let you cover or even intimidate anyone.

The reason the Pats pass defense is historically bad is coaching first and foremost.

And yet the record hereabouts belies the cluelessness, comparatively speaking. Sure other defenses perform better but at the end of the day they don't give out a trophy for that, do they... Therein lies the rub.

 

[Kid~Brady]

Thus, the New England Patriots defensive issues stem from a lack of talent not a lack of coaching.

True but coaches draft the players, not the other way around.

 

[Kontradiction]

"One of the greatest defensive minds in the history of the game" The key word in that description is HISTORY. Frankly, Bill Belichick hasn't had a clue on how to slow an NFL passing offense since the NFL told defensive backs to take their hands off receivers and keep them off 8 or 9 years ago.

He clings to his old bend-don't-break and coverage first-rush second strategies that simply don't work in a league where the rules won't let you cover or even intimidate anyone.

The reason the Pats pass defense is historically bad is coaching first and foremost.

The 2004-2007 Patriots were pretty good at slowing NFL passing attacks. Two of those teams went to Super Bowls and one of them won it.

 

[aluminum seats]

The defense isn't that far off being fixable. Hightower and Gregory have been out, and the secondary has been mismanaged big time.

Agreed--there's hope. And there's a decent chance that when the personnel in the secondary is utilized different--that is, a change in the coaching strategy--we'll see that improvement.

 

[Kontradiction]

McCourty's been fine in a zone and promising at safety. And you left out Tavon Wilson, who has been quite good for a rookie so far. Dowling still has promise. Does the secondary need some new talent? Yes. Is there a base that we can build on? I think the answer is also yes.

I left out Tavon because he's only seeing time with the starting unit due to injuries to the regular starters. Dennard cracked the line-up without needing to have that happen. But it's still too early to make any decisions one way or another on Dennard or Wilson back there. They both look promising.

 

[aluminum seats]

Sure other defenses perform better but at the end of the day they don't give out a trophy for that, do they... Therein lies the rub.

Well, they don't give out the trophy everyone cares about for what the Pats do either....not for awhile, anyway.

 

[ATippett56]

True but coaches draft the players, not the other way around.

Bill Belichick drafts the players not the "coaches".

 

[ATippett56]

But it's still too early to make any decisions one way or another on Dennard or Wilson back there. They both look promising.

As far as I'm concerned, Arrington and Chung already have one foot out the door. In addition, add Ron Brace and Trevor Scott to that list.

 

[mgteich]

LET'S BE CLEAR

It is not that we need a new and improved defense. We need a new and improved secondary. The front seven is fine and continues to get better.

We need a new DC if that coordinator would help secure and develop the secondary (and hire better coaches for the secondary).

Yes, the talent should be better. However, great coaches do pretty good with average and even below average talent. Would weak coaching have developed Ninkovich and Love?

Aside from maybe an improvement at DT next to Wilfork (and I'm not that low on Kyle Love either), the front seven is fine. I would like to eventually see a move back to the 3-4, but the front seven itself is stout. As you say, the secondary is a mess...

1. McCourty is awfully inconsistent and struggles in man coverage.

2. Arrington is one of the worst corners in the league.

3. Dowling is injury prone.

4. Dennard is a promising rookie.

5. Sterling Moore gets burned a lot and struggles with receivers he can't physically impose his will on.

6. Patrick Chung is bad against coverage and solid against the run. His skills don't exactly scream Pro Bowler in today's NFL.

7. Steve Gregory is just north of a JAG, has had injury issues throughout his time in the NFL, and was usually caught out of position with the Chargers.

That's six out of seven guys that regularly see playing time in the starting units that can either be replaced or improved upon. To expand on my position, many of the same compaints were made about Pees a few years back. One of the greatest defensive minds in the history of the game took over for him the next season. The results were largely the same. That same mind was the DC last year... he oversaw the second worst pass defense of all time. Again, it's not a coaching issue. It's a talent issue.

 

[ivanvamp]

I was going to start a thread on this, but I was sure it would have been moved to this thread, or another one like it. So here goes...

I wanted to compare the first 7 games of last season to the first 7 games of this season, and see if the defense has improved at all from this point last year. Here are the numbers:

Category: 2011 - 2012
Points allowed: 160 (22.9/g) - 163 (23.3/g)
Yards allowed: 2969 (424.1/g) - 2632 (376.0/g)
Rush yds allowed: 707 (101.0/g) - 602 (86.0/g)
Pass yds allowed: 2262 (323.1/g) - 2030 (290.0/g)

I would suggest that, on the whole, the defense is performing better than it was up to this point in 2011. It seems like the Pats are getting roasted all the time, but it *is* a slight improvement from last year, at least to this point in the season. We'll see where they are at the end of the year.

 

[ATippett56]

The front seven is fine and continues to get better.

I somewhat disagree with your analysis. The New England Patriots defense lack interior pass rushers in subpackages (especially third down and long scenarios). Check the NWE-NYJ gamebook and look at the NYJ third down conversion rate.

The New England Patriots have failed to adequately replace Mike Wright. Myron Pryor can't find the playing field, not that Myron Pryor is the answer to an interior pass rush.