RB Talent Unmatched

[ATippett56]

Next year add Demps and this will be off the charts with the diversity of options with which McDaniels will have to play.

Demps = mini Percy Harvin

At least, I hope!

 

[JJDChE]

Pats are what you call a quality middle tier running team....to call them elite at this stage is going way overboard

I think Ridley has a decent chance of being a top 10 rb in this league. He reminds me of a blend of Ricky Watters and MJD. We'll have to wait and see if durability is an issue. But after Ridley there is a HUGE dropoff

Bolden is a bit of a wildcard---it's hard to figure out if he's really good or he just has insanely awesome blocking in front of him on his runs---his running style doesn't really impress me.

Woodhead experiment should be over IMO

Vereen...cmon

I agree 100% with this assessment.

Our run game pretty much goes as far as Ridley takes it. The early returns on Bolden look good but IMO if Ridley goes down our run game would suddenly looks average or worse.

 

[ATippett56]

I want to see Vereen do more...almost anybody could of scored that touchdown. His receiving skills look promising. Does he not play because the other backs are better or is he just not very good?

Vereen injured his ankle/foot in the Tampa Bay preseason game.

 

[JJDChE]

I hope not.. They need to moderate the number of touches he gets so that he has a solid career and not get run into the ground too quickly.

I don't really care about comparisons, I am just so happy we have a robust running game because this means a lot of stress is taken off Brady, and his career is going to extend for one or two more years just because of this.

History shows that guys like Ridley can handle 300 carries/season over the long term. Once it starts getting over 350 is when guys start going down hill.

At this point Ridley isn't catching many passes so having 300 carries won't even add up to that many total touches. Guys like Curtis Martin and LT regularly got 400 total touches per year and went 8-10 years before hitting a wall. Some guys are inherently more durable than others, but you can't really determine if a guy has the durability until you feed him the ball. Regardless of durability, giving a guy 350+ carries a year wears a guy down.

 

[patchick]

If you factor in $$$$/yd......Pats win hands down

Ah, now this makes the question more interesting. Is the Pats' RB corps "the best in the league"? That's a pretty huge stretch just on talent, IMO. But let's reframe it:

Would you trade the Pats' running backs for any other team's, current contracts attached?

They're not quite "minimum wage guys" as you described, but certainly an excellent bargain -- around $2.2 million in new dollars ($2.75 million in cap space) for the full 4-man backfield. The 49ers' outstanding 5-man group costs almost $7 million more. In other words, if you take the Pats' running backs you essentially get a free Jarod Mayo or Rob Gronkowski with your purchase.

 

[ATippett56]

In other words, if you take the Pats' running backs you essentially get a free Jarod Mayo or Rob Gronkowski with your purchase.

I'll take Wes Welker for another couple years. Thank you very much!

 

[PP2]

I agree 100% with this assessment.

Our run game pretty much goes as far as Ridley takes it. The early returns on Bolden look good but IMO if Ridley goes down our run game would suddenly looks average or worse.

I think Bolden has more than held his own.

 

[Kontradiction]

How in the world is Vereen part of the equation? Based on what? His imaginary future accomplishments. His 2 carries for one yard? His 58 career yards?

Well he's breaking off a couple of injuries a pop.

 

[RobertWeathers]

History shows that guys like Ridley can handle 300 carries/season over the long term. Once it starts getting over 350 is when guys start going down hill.

At this point Ridley isn't catching many passes so having 300 carries won't even add up to that many total touches. Guys like Curtis Martin and LT regularly got 400 total touches per year and went 8-10 years before hitting a wall. Some guys are inherently more durable than others, but you can't really determine if a guy has the durability until you feed him the ball. Regardless of durability, giving a guy 350+ carries a year wears a guy down.

To your point everyone is different. Emmitt had 400+ touches in his first 4 of 6 seasons and he played until 35 with his last 1000 yd season coming at 32. Martin had almost 5 (had 398 in '95) and a 400+ touch season at 31 and cooked at 32. LT had one 400 touch season but was essentially done at 31. My point- all had fairly lengthy careers as bellwether RBs with 400 touch seasons early in their careers.

However there are cases where a 400 touch season overcooks a RB. Look at Chris Johnson. In 09 he had a 400+ touch season and now is ave 3.3 ypc. He looked very average to me last night- no burst. Same for Jamal Lewis. He was not the same player after his 2k season. Jamal Anderson is another. Terell Davis had two straight 400+ touch seasons and almost a 3rd. I wonder what would have happened to him if he hadn't blown out his knee. Most likely the same thing. Cooked...

We aren't 100% sure what the Pats have in Ridley. He may be a bellwether RB but things that you call out like endurance, ability to heal, taking care of your body, avoiding those "big hits" and not taking direct punishment (run OOB sometimes) are all ways for a RB to have "long" careers. I like what I see so far. He seems to avoid the big hit most of the time. Just needs to work on ball security and pass blocking every day of his life!!

 

[PatsFan2]

Not to sound like a homer but can anyone name a team with more talent at RB?

Ridley (23yrs old) - 4th in NFL in rushing
Bolden (22yrs old) - 206yds, 5.6ypc
Vereen (23yrs old) - 1st career TD today and showed well in opportunities.
Woodhead (27yrs old)- Excellent 3rd down back and situational runner.

Lets not put any of then in Canton yet...if you ask me upside wise...I think Brandon Bolden might turn out to be the best of the bunch. I love how he runs with both Speed and Power. Love Ridley with his deceptive speed and quickness. Thant said Ridley and Bolden need to learn how to catch.

 

[PatsFan2]

In past years, sure. Right now, it's pretty heavily the Pats' favor, though:
Ridley: 4.8 YPC
Bolden: 5.6

Tate: 3.9
Foster: 3.7

Even though Houston can pass it...they are primarily a Run First Team. So that 3.9 and 3.7 whith their two headed monster is pretty good considering Defenses are loading up.

 

[JJDChE]

I think Bolden has more than held his own.

He's gained his yards, mostly, by taking what has been given. He's a Benji clone IMO. Of course, he's only 37 carries into his career, so he's still a little bit of an unknown quantity, but he hasn't shown me enough in the way of natural ability to peg him at anything more than an average RB. Maybe he will, but that's not usually something that develops.

Ridley makes yards. Huge difference. Huge.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

How in the world is Vereen part of the equation? Based on what? His imaginary future accomplishments. His 2 carries for one yard? His 58 career yards?

Nobody has him higher than #4 on the depth chart.

I doubt that you will find any accomplished RBs on other teams that low on their depth charts. Based on his college production and the fact that in training camp before he was hurt there was serious debate about a time-split with Ridley, I'd say he's a nice card to have in the pocket as a #4 RB.

 

[PP2]

He's gained his yards, mostly, by taking what has been given. He's a Benji clone IMO. Of course, he's only 37 carries into his career, so he's still a little bit of an unknown quantity, but he hasn't shown me enough in the way of natural ability to peg him at anything more than an average RB. Maybe he will, but that's not usually something that develops.

Ridley makes yards. Huge difference. Huge.

I'm sorry? Is there a specific criteria for determining when a back "gains his yards" as opposed to "making yards"?

 

[borg]

I'm sorry? Is there a specific criteria for determining when a back "gains his yards" as opposed to "making yards"?

I'm eager to learn the answer to this one

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'm eager to learn the answer to this one

Not sure where JJDChe is going with this but yards gained after initial contact is a pretty important metric to follow.

This article articulates the point.

Analysis: Ridley, Bolden and yards after contact

But a hard look at each back's runs shows some more interesting information. Bolden made 78 yards after contact (which I defined as any blow that slows the runner or causes a noticeable break in stride); Ridley had 60 yards.

Bolden had seven carries on which he was brought down by the first defender (or wave of defenders) with no gain after contact. Ridley had six of those.

Ridley made seven defenders miss; Bolden made eight miss (remember, Ridley had six more carries.

Most interestingly, on Bolden's first five runs, he didn't make any defenders miss and only made 1 yard after contact. But after that, he exploded, gaining 17, 5 and 7 yards after contact on his next three runs.

In the second half, Bolden had a six-run stretch in which he gained 11, 9, 12, 5, 5, and 4 yards after contact.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Nobody has him higher than #4 on the depth chart.

I doubt that you will find any accomplished RBs on other teams that low on their depth charts. Based on his college production and the fact that in training camp before he was hurt there was serious debate about a time-split with Ridley, I'd say he's a nice card to have in the pocket as a #4 RB.

This is the NFL, it's not college. Last time I checked training camp stats or playing time don't count. The title of the thread is RB Talent Unmatched and people want to include Vereen and his 59 career yards - that's laughable.

Anyone remember Cedric Cobbs? He had 59 career yards in the NFL and more rushing yards in college than Vereen.

I hope he turns into the player you all think he already is but he has accomplished jack, to include him in a discussion about unmatched RB talent is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[borg]

Here's some Bolden love....Sure 37 carries is too small a sample....but that never stopped me from arguing anything.

Facts for RBs with 37 or more carries.

Bolden:
#1 in the league in % First Downs/rush.....14/37=37.7% (Ridley is #2...37%)
#2 in the league in yds/carry ...5.6 yds (Consider his longest rush was only 27 yds)
Tied for #6 in the league in 20+yd carries (3).....Except for Spiller, leading backs have 90+ attempts
Bolden is certainly making the most out of his reps. As to whether he is taking the yards given to him or he is making them.......Is the criteria all about breaking tackles....If so, I guess Barry Sanders was more of a taker than a maker

 

[RobertWeathers]

Here's some Bolden love....Sure 37 carries is too small a sample....but that never stopped me from arguing anything.

Facts for RBs with 37 or more carries.

Bolden:
#1 in the league in % First Downs/rush.....14/37=37.7% (Ridley is #2...37%)
#2 in the league in yds/carry ...5.6 yds (Consider his longest rush was only 27 yds)
Tied for #6 in the league in 20+yd carries (3).....Except for Spiller, leading backs have 90+ attempts
Bolden is certainly making the most out of his reps. As to whether he is taking the yards given to him or he is making them.......Is the criteria all about breaking tackles....If so, I guess Barry Sanders was more of a taker than a maker

Considering BJGE only has 4 runs over 20+ in 601 carries, he's already a better from that standpoint.

For those people who are saying he is a plodder just like BJGE, you aren't watching the games.

 

[patchick]

For a good impression of how effective the Pats' total running game has been so far, advancedfootballstats.com shows that Patriots' RBs occupy 3 of the top 8 slots in Running Success Rate. (That's a stat that attempts to track how successful running plays are in achieving situational objectives -- e.g., a 2-yard run might not help your conventional stats, but it's a success on 3 and 1.)

Advanced NFL Stats - Player Statistics by Position