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CBS Sports: Chandler Jones the #2 Impact Rookie this year

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What is this hunch based on?

A hunch is a hunch.....sort of an uneducated guess,based on their respective collegiate play,both were good,I just think Dont'a will somehow fit better on this defense.
 
A hunch is a hunch.....sort of an uneducated guess,based on their respective collegiate play,both were good,I just think Dont'a will somehow fit better on this defense.

So based on nothing. Thanks for the clarification

Then again, I seem to remember you being positive that Aaron Maybin was going to take the NFL by storm, so it makes sense that you wouldn't like Jones a whole lot. As far as pass rushers go, Jones is pretty much the anti-Maybin.
 
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Now you did it, FTW....called down...er...up.. the Rayge of Ray Ray 19 from the depths of Green River....I'm headed for higher ground until the flood subsides...
 
So based on nothing. Thanks for the clarification

Then again, I seem to remember you being positive that Aaron Maybin was going to take the NFL by storm, so it makes sense that you wouldn't like Jones a whole lot. As far as pass rushers go, Jones is pretty much the anti-Maybin.

Maybin did show signs of life for the Jets last year,so we can't say he is a bust yet.

I didn't care for JJ Watt but so far he looked pretty good.
 
I don't buy into preseason predictions either way. I just don't get how people are writing off Jones because he is raw. That was the same knock on Solder and he started at LT game one and other than one or two plays, he manned the position as if he was playing in the pros for years.

There are plenty of raw players who surprise everyone and hit as rookies and there are other player who come out of school polished and played in a pro style offense or defense in college and struggle for a year or two in the pros.

Obviously, being raw is a negative against Jones in terms of having a great rookie season, but maybe Patricia and Pepper (I am assuming that Jones will train with the LBers, but I could be wrong) can coach him up. I wouldn't write him off, but if guys like Mike Mayock think he was the best defensive player in the draft, there is a chance he is a monster right out of the gate. I wouldn't bet money on it, but I ain't ruling it out either.
 
Maybin did show signs of life for the Jets last year,so we can't say he is a bust yet.

I didn't care for JJ Watt but so far he looked pretty good.

I gotta say that if your secondary can make the opposing QB hold onto the ball for 5-8 seconds, there is no other pass rusher I want rushing the passer than Maybin. Maybin is the king of coverage sacks because he gets knocked so far out of the play initially that he sneaks up on QBs from behind and strips the ball. At least three or four of his 6.5 sacks should have been credited to Revis.

Here's his highlight video from last year, count all the coverage sacks where the QB keeps holding and holding and holding the ball until he gets to him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cQOzfM47lg

I don't think they showed all 6.5 sacks, but I saw only one where he clearly beat his blocker and got to the QB without the QB scrambling before he put pressure or having happy feet or patting the ball while waiting for his receivers to get open.
 
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I don't buy into preseason predictions either way. I just don't get how people are writing off Jones because he is raw. That was the same knock on Solder and he started at LT game one and other than one or two plays, he manned the position as if he was playing in the pros for years.

There are plenty of raw players who surprise everyone and hit as rookies and there are other player who come out of school polished and played in a pro style offense or defense in college and struggle for a year or two in the pros.

Obviously, being raw is a negative against Jones in terms of having a great rookie season, but maybe Patricia and Pepper (I am assuming that Jones will train with the LBers, but I could be wrong) can coach him up. I wouldn't write him off, but if guys like Mike Mayock think he was the best defensive player in the draft, there is a chance he is a monster right out of the gate. I wouldn't bet money on it, but I ain't ruling it out either.
What? You're not buying the Pats drafted a 3-4 year project in the first round!?
 
What? You're not buying the Pats drafted a 3-4 year project in the first round!?

If only! I think he is on the five year plan. I think it is all part of Belichick's plan. Don't really let him do much in his rookie contract so the Pats can sign him to his next deal (where most players cash in) on the cheap and then let him explode. And then the Pats will have an All Pro for back up money in 2016.
 
Maybin did show signs of life for the Jets last year,so we can't say he is a bust yet.

I didn't care for JJ Watt but so far he looked pretty good.

Maybin is absolutely terrible. He has exactly one skill--speed--and even that doesn't translate particularly well into production because he's so awful at everything else that he's supposed to do. It's a big problem, to say the least.

He's a prime example (if an example was even necessary) of why a linebacker--or even, god forbid, defensive lineman--whose playing weight is in the 220s is basically worthless in the NFL. This explains why he put on 25 pounds of muscle in the 2 months leading up to the 2009 draft, because his Penn State playing weight was a huge liability. OTOH, no matter how obvious it was that he was roiding, a FO full of idiots like the ones in Buffalo could totally talk themselves into his metamorphosis being legit, just like they've probably convinced themselves that Mark Anderson is a top-tier pass rusher. They're really dumb like that, and Maybin reaped the benefits.

That's why I consider Maybin to be one of the worst draft picks of the past decade: with other busts, you can at least see how he could have been good if things had gone a bit differently. With Maybin, there was really no conceivable way that he could have become a good, every-down football player. It was a physical impossibility. When he did finally have even a modicum of success in the NFL, it was because he stopped even pretending to be effective at that kind of weight and dropped back down into the 220s. At least that way he had his speed, even if it made him one of the most one-dimensional defensive players in the NFL.

As Rob already pointed out, even when he did get sacks he was typically beaten (soundly) at the snap, simply because any tackle who even gets his hands on Maybin can basically have his way with him. It was only when he was given an inordinate amount of time to recover and take the long way 'round (due to a combination of good coverage/terrible quarterbacking) that made any kind of an impact whatsoever. If you look at every play that he participated in, there were a few sacks interspersed with a bunch of plays in which he was basically blown off the field. Any team with an ounce of sense will just run directly at him everytime they see him on the field, and will do it with great success because he sucks.

That's why he's gone and gained 20+ pounds this offseason, which is great except that speed is literally his only positive attribute. Slowing him down will be removing the only thing he does well, and this will put him right back in the the position that he was in in Buffalo: too slow to rush the passer, and still too weak/bad at football to do anything else.

So on one hand, you have Maybin, whose entire skill-set revolved around being too fast for NCAA tackles to handle. But everyone knows that that doesn't fly in the NFL, because the tackles are faster, have better technique, and if that wasn't bad enough, they're also much stronger. By NFL standards, Dwight Freeney is a "small" pass rusher, and he weighs in in the 260s. If you go and make a list of all of the prolific NCAA edge rushers who failed in the pros, almost all of them will have the same story behind their failure: once they got to the NFL, they couldn't just run around guys anymore, and that's all they were ever good at. This is why most of us saw the Aaron Maybin trainwreck coming a mile away. His skill-set was entirely optimized for NCAA flash, at the expense of NFL substance.

Chandler Jones is the polar opposite. His skill-set is perfect for the NFL, and perhaps a bit out of place in the NCAA. He's a straight-line pass rusher who wins by engaging and then beating him blocker with superior strength, hand technique, and leverage. This means that he can generate a pass rush without creating lanes for the opposing RB or giving the quarterback open lanes to step/throw into. Even if he doesn't get to the QB, he's still in the guy's face, so good luck throwing over his three-foot-long arms. Watching a guy get beat 19 times in a row and then fly in untouched for a blindside hit on the 20th may look sexier to some people, but I'll take the guy who contributes to the overall defensive effort on every snap (and still gets his sacks) any day.
 
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So...I take it that Bullwinkle J. Jetfan's boast that "THIS year for sure!!" when he goes to pull a Lombardi out of his hat is out of the question in your mind, FTW?...me too....

 
So based on nothing. Thanks for the clarification
That has got to be the worst "gotcha" I've ever seen. He said it was just a hunch all along!
 
So...I take it that Bullwinkle J. Jetfan's boast that "THIS year for sure!!" when he goes to pull a Lombardi out of his hat is out of the question in your mind, FTW?...me too....


I can think of less likely things than the Jets winning a Super Bowl. Although, this being 2012 and all, the possibility of the world ending isn't even one of them.

That has got to be the worst "gotcha" I've ever seen. He said it was just a hunch all along!

Most people, when they have a hunch, it's based on... something at least. Maybe not a strong, compelling case, but at least a theory.
 
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Chandler Jones is the polar opposite. His skill-set is perfect for the NFL, and perhaps a bit out of place in the NCAA. He's a straight-line pass rusher who wins by engaging and then beating him blocker with superior strength, hand technique, and leverage. This means that he can generate a pass rush without creating lanes for the opposing RB or giving the quarterback open lanes to step/throw into. Even if he doesn't get to the QB, he's still in the guy's face, so good luck throwing over his three-foot-long arms. Watching a guy get beat 19 times in a row and then fly in untouched for a blindside hit on the 20th may look sexier to some people, but I'll take the guy who contributes to the overall defensive effort on every snap (and still gets his sacks) any day.

Why would his skillset be out off place in the NCAA? If he'd be effective at a much higher skill NFL why wouldn't he completely dominate the lower class of player in college ball?
 
Why would his skillset be out off place in the NCAA? If he'd be effective at a much higher skill NFL why wouldn't he completely dominate the lower class of player in college ball?

Out of place probably wasn't the right term, I should rephrase it. Compared to someone like Aaron Maybin, who could regularly run untouched around NCAA tackles, Jones' college numbers were destined to be relatively unimpressive. When facing a slow tackle (by NFL standards), the guy who goes around him will pretty much always get there faster than the guy who goes through him.

In the NFL, going around tackles can no longer be relied upon as your one and only skill, because most of them have too much lateral quickness to be beaten consistently when they know that that's all you have going for you. In the NFL, even the JAGs were good college players who have since had the benefit of NFL coaching and training. So whatever advantage the speed rusher had over the Jones types in college is pretty much negated. In principle, it's similar to why 6'2 shooting guards are rarely successful in the NBA, no matter how much much they produce in college. There are certain skills/attributes that translate well to the pro level, and others--specifically, those that rely on athletically dominating a lower tier of athlete that doesn't exist at the pro level--that don't. If the caliber of athlete that you'll see every day at the next level reliably shuts you down at the college level, then you're probably going to suck in the pros (see: Aaron Maybin, or Adam Morrison for another NBA example).

This explains exactly why Jones didn't have a ton of sacks in college, to the point that I'm not sure why so many media types couldn't figure it out. What guys like Belichick and Mike Mayock saw in him is that he performs against NFL-caliber talent. That's all that really matters; how thoroughly he can dominate someone who will be selling insurance in two years is basically irrelevant. To that effect, he could stand to put on some weight, but even now he's not small. If he were to sack the QB at 2/3rds of the rate that he did last year, that's 7 sacks. Because his game translates so well to the pros, I think that that is a real possibility for him, even as a rookie.
 
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I'm not expecting big stats from Jones in fact he didn't put up big stats in college either, but he is going to make other people around him better.

If you like stats watch out for Bequette. The guy is a demon off the edge and came up big in big games for Arkansas. The downside to him is that it's all he can do.

That's about all Jared Allen can do, and we all know how overrated he is...
 
FWIW, Sports analyst tough guy John Clayton has Jones as his #7 impact rookie.
 
I think Jones will rush the passer on 3rd and long downs. He may have lots fo success there and thus rack up the sacks.

To clarify, when I say he seems raw and looks a little light....those are my perceptions, I really have no idea whether he will come in and play every down like a pro-bowler or whether he is going to get pushed around and out-played.

Ya know, we haven't seen them play with the pads on, pre-season is almost here, so that is when we get to see for real.
 
I think Jones will rush the passer on 3rd and long downs. He may have lots fo success there and thus rack up the sacks.

To clarify, when I say he seems raw and looks a little light....those are my perceptions, I really have no idea whether he will come in and play every down like a pro-bowler or whether he is going to get pushed around and out-played.

Ya know, we haven't seen them play with the pads on, pre-season is almost here, so that is when we get to see for real.

As for the light thing, many people say he is going to take over the Willie Mac role and McGinest was 6-5 and 268lbs when he played and Jones is 6-5 and 265lbs now. I don't think he is that light. He isn't going to be a 3-4 DE or a 4-3 DT.
 
When facing a slow tackle (by NFL standards), the guy who goes around him will pretty much always get there faster than the guy who goes through him.

In the NFL, going around tackles can no longer be relied upon as your one and only skill, because most of them have too much lateral quickness to be beaten consistently when they know that that's all you have going for you.

This. Very much this.
 
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