Pats Running Backs

[ausbacker]

I wonder how the idiots who had Vereen in their group of TC cuts will feel when they hear that he was taking most of the 1st team reps last week?



Out of all of the potential 'surprise' cuts, I never once viewed our 2nd round pick who was probably in the top 3 RB's coming out of Cal last year as one of them.

It seems that a lot of people do not understand the limitations of physical injuries, and how Belichick views them as simply part of the game. On top of that, Vereen was likely waaay behind in learning the playbook last year, with the labor and injury situations that occured in the beginning of the season.

I believe we'll see a return to screen passes in the JMcD offense, and that Vereen will be one of the pleasant surprises of the 2012 yr.

I sure hope Vereen and Ridley go on to form a devastating 1-2 punch supa. Excellence at every offensive position is a luxury when Tom Brady is your QB.

 

[Ron Sellers]

I wonder how the idiots who had Vereen in their group of TC cuts will feel when they hear that he was taking most of the 1st team reps last week?

Without taking the time to look, I would think that it is probably a safe bet that no 2nd round pick has ever been cut prior to his second season.

Have there really been people saying that the Pats should cut Vereen?

:bricks:

 

[TruthSeeker]

I could honestly see Vereen taking the lead role over Ridley. He's got great speed and makes good cuts. He's also got pretty good hands.

If you watch videos of Vereen at Cal, he's got better than "pretty good hands", they used to spread the field and line up Vereen as a WR. He's a nightmare mismatch for any LB to cover. I was very disappointed seing him miss virtually his full first season with injuries. He doesn't have great speed, but good enough speed and is very shifty. If he can stay healthy, he could be our most explosive back in years. He reminds me of Thurman Thomas, and if he could be 25% as good I'd be thrilled.

 

[supafly]

Without taking the time to look, I would think that it is probably a safe bet that no 2nd round pick has ever been cut prior to his second season.

Have there really been people saying that the Pats should cut Vereen?

:bricks:

There were a handful who predicted it in the 'surprise cuts' thread, and I've even seen some who have already labled him a bust.

That said, I shouldn't have used the word "idiots" as that was unnecessary, and I can certainly respect and appreciate opposing viewpoints.

I do however, tend to get a bit aggrevated over those who give up on a player a bit too quickly and do not recognize certain circumstances that shouldn't lump them in with some of the underperformers and malcontents.

 

[mayoclinic]

If you watch videos of Vereen at Cal, he's got better than "pretty good hands", they used to spread the field and line up Vereen as a WR. He's a nightmare mismatch for any LB to cover. I was very disappointed seing him miss virtually his full first season with injuries. He doesn't have great speed, but good enough speed and is very shifty. If he can stay healthy, he could be our most explosive back in years. He reminds me of Thurman Thomas, and if he could be 25% as good I'd be thrilled.

Yup. Vereen's speed is good enough, and he has terrific strength and acceleration. His 31 reps @ 225 at the Combine were the most by a RB in years, and his 4.49 40, 1.56 10 yard split and 6.95 3-cone were acceptable for WRs. I think that Vereen could be a very good lead back in the LeSean McCoy mold, which would be plenty good for me. I never bought all this talk of him being a "3rd down back" - he's plenty big and strong enough to be a lead back in the NFL. LeSean McCoy and Ray Rice are able to do just fine.

My only real criticism of Vereen last year was that he held out briefly, and was one of the last draft picks to report, missing the first season of training camp. Then he got injured, and he just seemed to go backwards on the depth chart. But hopefully with a full offseason to get on track he'll show what he's capable of.

 

[supafly]

If you watch videos of Vereen at Cal, he's got better than "pretty good hands", they used to spread the field and line up Vereen as a WR. He's a nightmare mismatch for any LB to cover. I was very disappointed seing him miss virtually his full first season with injuries. He doesn't have great speed, but good enough speed and is very shifty. If he can stay healthy, he could be our most explosive back in years. He reminds me of Thurman Thomas, and if he could be 25% as good I'd be thrilled.

I think this is a pretty good analysis of him and his potential.

The only thing that I would question would be the definition of 'great speed.'

IIRC he ran anywhere between a 4.46 and 4.49 at his pro-day and combine.

One could view that as pretty impressive, but I'll also agree that different people have different examples and defintions of what they term as 'great.'

Regardless, as you said, he's pretty shifty. I may also add the term explosive, depending again upon your views and definition.

EDIT: Sorry, I see that mayoclinic has already covered most of this.

 

[Ron Sellers]

Shane Vereen Works With Patriots First Team, Pushing Stevan Ridley for Lead Role in Backfield - New England Patriots - NESN.com

Vereen and Ridley are near locks to make the roster, but the same cannot be said for Addai given his age. What he lacks in youth, however, Addai makes up for with his pass protection and experience, two qualities Belichick values in his backs.

Danny Woodhead will also return to New England this season, but he is primarily a third-down back in the Patriots' offense, and his role is not drastically altered with the departure of Green-Ellis.

Depth is particularly important at the running back position, and the Patriots have a few quality options to turn to in the backfield. But which back will New England lean on most heavily during the 2012 season? That will be an ongoing storyline throughout training camp and into the regular season.​

 

[mayoclinic]

EDIT: Sorry, I see that mayoclinic has already covered most of this.

It's hard to get a word in edgewise sometimes, isn't it? But we pretty much agree about Vereen.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

That's awesome to hear Vereen is getting 1st team reps. Every time I saw him run last year, even though it was against scrubs and very limited action, I really wanted to see what he could do in an expanded role.

 

[ZoisKing]

Lets say Vereen continues to show this promise. If he is able to beat out Ridley for the starting spot at RB then I'd say we have one helluva RB core. With the way Ridley performed last year, him being supplanted in the rotation in favor of Shane would be tremendous from a talent potential standpoint.

 

[supafly]

Lets say Vereen continues to show this promise. If he is able to beat out Ridley for the starting spot at RB then I'd say we have one helluva RB core. With the way Ridley performed last year, him being supplanted in the rotation in favor of Shane would be tremendous from a talent potential standpoint.

I agree.

Ridley can be the "wear-em-down, 4th quarter kind of RB." He can also take over many of the GL and SY situations too.

I'm certainly not handing any kind of starting role over to Vereen, especially since OTA's are just glorified practices, where the media and fans tend to pay too much attention; BUT, if the team is willing to give him a shot at first-team reps, that may mean something in the bigger picture.

I just have a feeling that they will do a good job of trying to get him the ball in space more, and that he can offer something as not only a runner but also with the screen passes, and even lining up in the 5 WR role at times a la Faulk and Woodhead.

Blitz pickup will obviously play a big role in the number of snaps he gets too, so that will be something to keep an eye on.

 

[patchick]

Blitz pickup will obviously play a big role in the number of snaps he gets too, so that will be something to keep an eye on.

FWIW, one of the reasons Vareen was such a PatsFans favorite prior to the draft last year...From NFLDraftScout:

Carries the tradition of Cal running backs who are stout pass blockers. Is willing to take on the hard-charging linebacker, showing good technique and power for a back of his size.

Vereen was probably the most COMPLETE back in the draft. Not the best at any one thing, but well-rounded enough to improve the offense's unpredictability.

 

[mayoclinic]

Vereen was probably the most COMPLETE back in the draft. Not the best at any one thing, but well-rounded enough to improve the offense's unpredictability.

From Sideline Scouting's 2011 pre-draft profile on Vereen:

Above average speed, can get to the corner... Very stout build... Does a great job holding onto the football... Versatile player who can contribute in a number of ways... Surprisingly strong, runs through a good amount of arm tackles... Runs very low to the ground... Has a good center of gravity, hard to bring down... Gets a lot of comparisons to Ray Rice for his size and style of play... Patient runner, waits for his blockers... Good hands out of the backfield... Runs excellent routes, has run plays out of the slot before... An explosive kick returner... Solid north/south runner who prefers to get up field than dance around... Strong upper body, led all running backs with 31 reps of 225 pounds at the combine... Decent in pass protection, but is usually running routes on passing downs.

http://sidelinescouting.com/site/archive/2011.pdf

 

[The Gr8est]

From Sideline Scouting's 2011 pre-draft profile on Vereen:

Quote:
Above average speed, can get to the corner... Very stout build

... Does a great job holding onto the football...

Versatile player who can contribute in a number of ways... Surprisingly strong, runs through a good amount of arm tackles... Runs very low to the ground... Has a good center of gravity, hard to bring down... Gets a lot of comparisons to Ray Rice for his size and style of play... Patient runner, waits for his blockers... Good hands out of the backfield... Runs excellent routes, has run plays out of the slot before... An explosive kick returner... Solid north/south runner who prefers to get up field than dance around... Strong upper body, led all running backs with 31 reps of 225 pounds at the combine... Decent in pass protection, but is usually running routes on passing downs.


http://sidelinescouting.com/site/archive/2011.pdf

He sounds gr8, and the part I bolded is very important too, particularly in light of why Ridley got fewer carries down the stretch last year.

I know Doug Martin was one of your pre-draft binkies mayo, but maybe the reason the Pats passed on him is that they already have him.

 

[mayoclinic]

I know Doug Martin was one of your pre-draft binkies mayo, but maybe the reason the Pats passed on him is that they already have him.

Gr8 point. The thought had occurred to me, and I would obviously be thrilled if you are correct.

I'm guessing that the Pats at least in part kicked the tires on Doug Martin and David Wilson to compare them to what they already had in Shane Vereen. They clearly felt comfortable trading up for Chandler Jones and Dont'a Hightower in the 1st round and ignoring the RB situation, knowing that both guys probably wouldn't last until 48, which suggests that they didn't see a big upside to either over what Vereen already offered. I'd be ecstatic if that were the case. I probably like Martin a bit more than Vereen is a pure back, but Vereen probably has a bit more positional versatility. I personally consider Vereen to be in the same range talent wise as Martin and Wilson, and I'm eager to see what he can do.

 

[mayoclinic]

Sayre Bedinger of NFL Mocks discusses the potential shape of the New England backfield this year:

The New England Patriots are about to have a complete makeover at the running back position, and it starts with two young guys they drafted in the second and third rounds last year. Shane Vereen and Stevan Ridley saw limited action last year as rookies behind BenJarvus Green-Ellis. Both backs have really contrasting styles, with Vereen as more of a bigger, speedier back and Ridley as the powerful back. With Danny Woodhead also still in the mix as the third down back, there will really be no featured back for New England unless someone emerges as a guy that needs more carries.

One thing the Patriots could look to do is something like what New Orleans did last year with Mark Ingram, Pierre Thomas, Darren Sproles, and Chris Ivory. Interestingly enough, Ingram led the Saints in carries last year with 122. Pierre Thomas had 12 fewer carries and just under 100 more yards. The carry distribution between the four backs went 122, 110, 87, and 79. If I had to guess right now, I’d say that the players getting those touches in order would be Ridley, Vereen, Woodhead, and Addai, but Addai could certainly see more carries.

One thing the Patriots didn’t really do much last year was involve the backs in the passing game. Danny Woodhead led all backs with 18 receptions, and there are times when he lines up at receiver, so it will be interesting to see if the Patriots use their backs in the passing game a little bit more this year.

As to the question of who is ready to break out, I would have to think it’s Vereen. He basically didn’t play last year after receiving less than one carry per game, but he definitely has an intriguing skill set including size and speed. If he can come in and make a significant impact on the offense, the Patriots could be even more dangerous offensively than they were a year ago.

New England Patriots Young Backfield Ready to Break Out? - NFL Mocks - 2013 NFL Mock Draft, Fantasy Football, NFL News, and NFL Mock Draft Databases

Hmmm. Sounds vaguely familiar.

 

[patchick]

Sayre Bedinger of NFL Mocks discusses the potential shape of the New England backfield this year:

One thing the Patriots could look to do is something like what New Orleans did last year with Mark Ingram, Pierre Thomas, Darren Sproles, and Chris Ivory.

New England Patriots Young Backfield Ready to Break Out? - NFL Mocks - 2013 NFL Mock Draft, Fantasy Football, NFL News, and NFL Mock Draft Databases

The personnel parallels are remarkably apt. From the start, I've seen Ridley as a bigger Mark Ingram: good power, elite balance, sturdy in pass protection and the soft hands to be a dump-off option in the passing game, but no real outside speed. Sproles is the best at what he does, but Woodhead is cut from the same mold and in the next tier. And Vereen is pretty much a physical clone of Thomas and projects to the same versatility.

If we're picturing a full Saints-East RB corps, that should give Bolden the leg up on Addai as more of a Chris Ivory type, eh?

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

Some good stuff here on Vereen:

Emerging Talents: NE RB Shane Vereen | The Rookie Scouting Portfolio

 

[UK_Pat37]

I wouldn't take too much from OTA reports but I wouldn't be surprised Vereen is taking 1st team reps. He was drafted before Ridley for a reason and asd high as he was for a reason and you don'[t need to look to far or too in depth to see why this kid could be a special player.

He's a RB who can line up as a wideout with his speed and receiving ability, has excellent burst and vision, breaks it outside extremely well, has a decent stiff arm and spin move, very good pad level and protects the ball pretty well...lost count of the number of times this guy made people miss and broke runs from what should have been negative gains. Making people miss is a rare ability not many have and he had it at Cal.

The hamstring injury was a big blow and meant he was never going to feature prominently in a season where he had no OTAs or any form of off season program. If Vereen isn't taking the load at the start of the year I'm going to be really disappointed.

Ridley surprised me in pre season with his ability to receive out of the backfield and with his speed outside...but Vereen is better at all of that. Vereen is your #1 back and Ridley is your smash mouth relief back that provide you with that 1-2 punch that NFL teams favour nowadays over that feature back role.

Don't read too much into OTAs, but Vereen SHOULD be starting come week one regardless.

 

[mayoclinic]

Jeff Howe looks at the RB group:

Patriots run option play - BostonHerald.com