Willie McGinest rips Wes Welker

[DaBruinz]

He's 100% expendable. The system has proved over the years that it can turn nobodies (which Welker was) into somebodies and it can revive the career of a run down vet (look at Moss and Branch).

You may not have known who Wes Welker was before the Pats traded a 2nd and 7th round pick for him, but other did. To claim that he was a nobody is just stupidity on your part. The guy was known as one of the hardest working WRs in the league despite being on a crappy team (Miami). He was known for doing whatever was needed including Kick-offs, field goals, etc.

BTW, Branch has hardly "revived" his career since the Pats got him back unless you call being nearly invisible for the 2nd half of last season and the SB a "revival".

 

[DaBruinz]

maybe welker should just man up and play under the tag like others have

he really has no choice since the clock is against him

if I was the pats FO, I'd be more worried about gronk showing up one day and simply saying: 'you know what guys? you need to pay me more' .... for gronks part, the smart move would be to do that BEFORE the franchise tag shows up, or he might be playing on the tag for 3 years in a row. on one hand, you have the CBA rules and the leverage the team has to prevent a player from becoming a free agent. on the other, you have the deion branch way of ultimately shooting your way out of town, but that really only works while you are still under your rookie contract.

the players don't owe the teams anything beyond the signed contract and vice-versa. both sides need to treat it like a business. for gronks part, it would be smart business to secure guarantees sooner rather than later, and also time it so that he can get his next big deal at 26-28 years old.

Just a note. Gronk won't be playing for the Franchise tag for 3 years in a row since the 3rd year would have to be at the QB franchise number. And that's not happening.

 

[Sicilian]

It is a bit of a ridiculous opinion, then, given the market, isn't it?

That depends. Given the Patriots realistically have the most leverage here, if he decides to take the Franchise tender rather than signing a contract that might have $11m up front and possibly $15 guaranteed, and (to use the most common argument) blows his knee out in his franchise year, he's now given up $6m in guaranteed money. Again, I would take the chance personally, but the idea that someone wouldn't isn't ridiculous.

 

[Huckleberry1]

You may not have known who Wes Welker was before the Pats traded a 2nd and 7th round pick for him, but other did. To claim that he was a nobody is just stupidity on your part. The guy was known as one of the hardest working WRs in the league despite being on a crappy team (Miami). He was known for doing whatever was needed including Kick-offs, field goals, etc.

BTW, Branch has hardly "revived" his career since the Pats got him back unless you call being nearly invisible for the 2nd half of last season and the SB a "revival".

yep, Belichick used a 2nd for Welker, against the wishes of the same people who are now saying they should get rid of him, because Welker was killing them and he was pretty much unstoppable, which is exactly what he has been since signing here. You cannot be a better team player than he has been and those trashing him are simply showing how little they know and how frigging dumb they are.

 

[DaBruinz]

This is ridiculous. Willie Mac is a 3x Superbowl Champion. Wes Welker is a 2x Superbowl Loser with one of those loses being mainly his fault as he choked away victory in crunch time. Willie can say whatever he wants. He earned that right and I'll take his words over a reciever that owes a big part of his production to Brady and the offensive system.

More proof that you don't know what you are talking about.

Willie McGinest was a BUST until Belichick showed up in 2000. Willie's best years were playing OLB under Belichick.

BTW, you forgot to mention that McGinest also was a SB Loser.

Welker was not solely responsible for the loss against the Giants. This is proof of how much of an imbecile you are.

 

[DaBruinz]

Oh wow, a, "what if..."

He didn't win though and he wasn't the MVP because he's a choke artist, glorified fantasy reciever. Seriously, he should be honored he was offered a franchise tag. No other team in this leauge would pay a 31 year old reciever that only excels in the slot that much money. He's mot even the biggest threat in the Patriots receiving game, Gronkowski is. I'd take Mike Wallace over him too, and the Steelers didn't even franchise him.

Only excels in the slot? More proof you don't know what you are talking about. Welker lines up all over the field and some of his biggest plays have been when he's been lined up outside.

As for Welker not being the biggest threat in the Pats receiving game, I have news for you. Without Welker on the team, there is no other receiver would would draw double coverage and make it easier for Gronkowski to get open. you can claim that Gronkowski is the better receiver, but that's just not the truth.

BTW, the Steelers didn't Franchise Wallace because Wallace was a RESTRICTED free agent. And they tendered Wallace at the highest possible tender. The Franchise tag is for players who would normally be Unrestricted Free Agents. Thank you for providing even more proof that you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[DaBruinz]

1. Uhm Welker was all pro before brady?

2. Edelman didnt step up big in Wess absence?

3. Did you go to the SB parade in Boston this year?

1) Welker wasn't "All-Pro" before Brady, but then no one outside of Jason Taylor was on those Horrible Miami teams

2) Edelman has only stepped up ONCE. Since then, he's been lacking in the production department.

3) Last I looked, Hernandez and Branch both had drops during the last 2 series that the Pats had. Yet fool, like yourself, totally ignore that. And let's not forget that Brady put the Pats behind to start with because of the safety..

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Willie McGinest: Sign the contract Wes

And all of that goes out the window when we are talking about a reciever that demands to be paid as one of the top guys in his position. If you want to be paid that much, you need to catch that. Welker choked in front on the biggest stage, everyone saw it.

*ROFLMAO* So, the fact that there is fault for the entire team in that SB loss, not just Welker, is irrelevant? WRONG. It's perfectly relevant.

Also, the last I looked, Welker had not made his demands public. So you have no idea what they are.

BTW, I have news for you. Jerry Rice had drops. Terrell Owens had drops. Randy Moss had drops. Plenty of STAR players have had drops in critical times. Yet they still got paid. So, this idea that Wes shouldn't because of ONE drop is ridiculous. Especially when his drop wouldn't have happened if Branch or Hernandez had made their catches.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

What point was that? Because I'm not sure how Gronk's contract is relevant to my point.

You think Gronk and AHern will not be looking to get paid?

When do they start getting paid?

The reality is this whole debate revolves around ken's point #8.

This looks to be standard contract bickering.

However,

It's really, really niave to just assume that there is zero possibility this offense will not change or evolve and Welker's value will not change.

You also have to assume that BB doesn't have a vision and plan for the future. Welker's value will be determined here....not by past years.

Just ask Randy Moss how that went.

There are many "do what we do" coaches in the NFL.

BB ain't one of them.

 

[patfanken]

Wes Welker is an integral part of the Patriots offense. Wes Welker has done everything asked of him and more. Wes Welker is the best slot receiver in the game. In case you have been under a rock for the past decade, the short and intermediate pass is the Patriots bread and butter. It's also the most dangerous for a reciever. Wes Welker deserves to get paid. Those of you turning on him should be ashamed of yourselves.

There is not a single thing you said that was untrue. But the conundrum remains: Should you pay Welker for the things he's done in the past, or should you pay him based one what you think he will do during the period of his new contract?

Do you REALLY think his production will remain at the same levels as the last 5 years? That's an unreasonable expectation based on a lot of things, like his size, his age, the wear and tear of the last 5 years, new additions to the receiving corps, and increased emphasis on the running game.

He is likely looking for a 3-4 year deal. I have little doubt he can product at a high level for next year, but I have serious doubts beyond that. I think he's worth 7-8MM/year on a 3-4 year deal. I think if you pay him what he wants (over 10MM/yr) then all you are doing is paying him for PAST performance, not what you'll get going forward

 

[JimJohns]

Re: Willie McGinest: Sign the contract Wes

*ROFLMAO* So, the fact that there is fault for the entire team in that SB loss, not just Welker, is irrelevant? WRONG. It's perfectly relevant.

Also, the last I looked, Welker had not made his demands public. So you have no idea what they are.

BTW, I have news for you. Jerry Rice had drops. Terrell Owens had drops. Randy Moss had drops. Plenty of STAR players have had drops in critical times. Yet they still got paid. So, this idea that Wes shouldn't because of ONE drop is ridiculous. Especially when his drop wouldn't have happened if Branch or Hernandez had made their catches.

Jerry Rice didn't choke away a Superbowl, Welker did. But anyways, I have no comments for you if you're just going to sneak in insults at me in your posts.

Here is the difference between Jerry Rice and Wes Welker,

The GOAT:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chtE8T1YHbs

and Butterfingers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT6XziIQ5RI

 

[patfanken]

You're kidding with this one, right?

So, DI, based on you well thought out and documented critique of my post, it would be fair to say that the following would reflect YOUR opinion on the Welker Matter

1. Willie is NOT entitled to his opinion.

2. Welker's "drop" in the superbowl SHOULD have an impact in the contract negotiations.

3. The Pats SHOULD pay Welker whatever he wants

4. Welker's production going forward into 2013-15 will be worth in excess of $10MM/yr

5. Based on past history "holding out" has been a very effective tactic to use against the Patriots organization.

6. It is very likely that despite his age, size, and the wear and tear of the last 5 years, its likely Welker will still be producing 100 catch seasons throughout his next contract

7. Yes the Pats should be obligated to overpay him because he over produced in his first 5 years

8. Despite the fact that BB drafted TWO RBs in 2011, added TWO FBs for 2012, and is likely to add another vet RB, the Pats will continue to de-emphasize the running game.

.....AND if that's what you believe, then all I have to say is.....You have to be kidding.

 

[DaBruinz]

There is not a single thing you said that was untrue. But the conundrum remains: Should you pay Welker for the things he's done in the past, or should you pay him based one what you think he will do during the period of his new contract?

Do you REALLY think his production will remain at the same levels as the last 5 years? That's an unreasonable expectation based on a lot of things, like his size, his age, the wear and tear of the last 5 years, new additions to the receiving corps, and increased emphasis on the running game.

He is likely looking for a 3-4 year deal. I have little doubt he can product at a high level for next year, but I have serious doubts beyond that. I think he's worth 7-8MM/year on a 3-4 year deal. I think if you pay him what he wants (over 10MM/yr) then all you are doing is paying him for PAST performance, not what you'll get going forward

Could you please post the link where you got that Welker wants $10mm a year? Thanks

 

[patfanken]

Re: Willie McGinest: Sign the contract Wes

Jerry Rice didn't choke away a Superbowl, Welker did.

PLEASE, JimJohns, just STOP!. We all wish Welker had made that catch. But please at least acknowledge that it wasn't a great throw by Brady. That it was only one of a dozen plays that "could" have turned that game around. That although that it was a catch he usually makes it was a very tough catch. AND that, that single play should have nothing to do with the current contract negotiations.

Deal with your disappointment, like we all have. It shouldn't just be focused on this single play and a single individual. Football is just not that kind of game.

 

[JimJohns]

Re: Willie McGinest: Sign the contract Wes

PLEASE, JimJohns, just STOP!. We all wish Welker had made that catch. But please at least acknowledge that it wasn't a great throw by Brady. That it was only one of a dozen plays that "could" have turned that game around. That although that it was a catch he usually makes it was a very tough catch. AND that, that single play should have nothing to do with the current contract negotiations.

Deal with your disappointment, like we all have. It shouldn't just be focused on this single play and a single individual. Football is just not that kind of game.

It wasn't a perfect throw but it was good enough. Maybe if you're a college receiver it's understandable you drop that. If you're an NFL receiver you're expected to make that catch. If you're a receiver that is going to hold out because 9 million in a year isn't enough for you, you have no excuse for dropping that ball. If you follow the flow of the game, that was the one single play that ruined the Patriots chances for winning. Sure, the defense didn't stop Manning but it wasn't the defense's job to win that game. They were terrible all year, they kept a great offense to a low score. The Patriots offense choked the game away and 99% of that burden rests on the man who could've sealed the win with a catch. If he wants to be paid like a top receiver maybe he should've played like one in the SB.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Willie McGinest: Sign the contract Wes

Jerry Rice didn't choke away a Superbowl, Welker did. But anyways, I have no comments for you if you're just going to sneak in insults at me in your posts.

Here is the difference between Jerry Rice and Wes Welker,

The GOAT:

Jerry Rice: Super Bowl Highlights - YouTube

and Butterfingers:

Wes Welker Superbowl XLVI Dropped Pass - YouTube

Welker did not choke away a SB. Why can't you get that through your thick skull? Or are you to ignorant to understand reality? Why aren't you complaining about Deion Branch choking away the SB since Branch had a drop just a few plays before? Why aren't you complaining about Hernandez chocking away the SB since he also had a critical drop? OH, yeah. I know. Because, in your eyes, it doesn't matter. Just like it doesn't matter that Brady threw the ball to Welker's outside shoulder and Welker was looking for it on the inside one..

BTW, Jerry Rice had plenty of drops that prevented the 49ers from even getting to the SB. Why do you think there was a 4 year gap between the 1st two SBs and their last one?

But, don't let the facts get in the way of you being a pathetic troll..

 

[IllegalContact]

Just a note. Gronk won't be playing for the Franchise tag for 3 years in a row since the 3rd year would have to be at the QB franchise number. And that's not happening.

thanks for the clarification, but you get the damned point

the best opportunity for gronk to take care of gronk will be after next season by either demanding a new deal or only show up if they promise to NOT use the franchise tag after his 4th year. he will be a just-turned 25 when his rookie contract is up. it would behoove him to make a new 4 year deal as a just turned 24 year old, so that he can make yet another deal as a just turned 28 year old and reap 8 years worth of highest paid TE money in the league.

considering that
- he just had the best season ever by a TE
- he has the best 1st 2 years by any TE and it's not even close.
- his impact to the offense

I'd say if he comes close to reproducing season number 2, that he has a very strong negotiating stance. And given the fact that the front office will be sitting there with the franchise tag at their disposal, that he would do himself a disservice to let it get to that.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Willie McGinest: Sign the contract Wes

It wasn't a perfect throw but it was good enough. Maybe if you're a college receiver it's understandable you drop that. If you're an NFL receiver you're expected to make that catch. If you're a receiver that is going to hold out because 9 million in a year isn't enough for you, you have no excuse for dropping that ball. If you follow the flow of the game, that was the one single play that ruined the Patriots chances for winning. Sure, the defense didn't stop Manning but it wasn't the defense's job to win that game. They were terrible all year, they kept a great offense to a low score. The Patriots offense choked the game away and 99% of that burden rests on the man who could've sealed the win with a catch. If he wants to be paid like a top receiver maybe he should've played like one in the SB.

Welker isn't holding out because 9 million isn't enough. FFS would you get your facts straight already.

Welker is "holding out" because he doesn't have a contract in place. If you had actually FOLLOWED anything, you'd know that the PATRIOTS are the issue currently because they haven't contacted Wes or his agent since they placed the tag on him.

And, no, that ONE PLAY was NOT the one single play that ruined the Patriots' chances for winning. Any INTELLIGENT person knows that the drop by Branch, the drop by Hernandez, the missed blocks by Mankins and Polite on BJGE's running play had just as much to do with the loss as Welker's drop.

 

[IllegalContact]

Re: Willie McGinest: Sign the contract Wes

Welker isn't holding out because 9 million isn't enough. FFS would you get your facts straight already.

Welker is "holding out" because he doesn't have a contract in place. If you had actually FOLLOWED anything, you'd know that the PATRIOTS are the issue currently because they haven't contacted Wes or his agent since they placed the tag on him.

And, no, that ONE PLAY was NOT the one single play that ruined the Patriots' chances for winning. Any INTELLIGENT person knows that the drop by Branch, the drop by Hernandez, the missed blocks by Mankins and Polite on BJGE's running play had just as much to do with the loss as Welker's drop.

he's not holding out

 

[DaBruinz]

thanks for the clarification, but you get the damned point

the best opportunity for gronk to take care of gronk will be after next season by either demanding a new deal or only show up if they promise to NOT use the franchise tag after his 4th year. he will be a just-turned 25 when his rookie contract is up. it would behoove him to make a new 4 year deal as a just turned 24 year old, so that he can make yet another deal as a just turned 28 year old and reap 8 years worth of highest paid TE money in the league.

considering that
- he just had the best season ever by a TE
- he has the best 1st 2 years by any TE and it's not even close.
- his impact to the offense

I'd say if he comes close to reproducing season number 2, that he has a very strong negotiating stance. And given the fact that the front office will be sitting there with the franchise tag at their disposal, that he would do himself a disservice to let it get to that.

Do me a favor. Show me a rookie that outplayed his rookie deal that the Pats didn't take care of on the 2nd one..