Schefter: Pats sign Brandon Lloyd

[Ring 6]

Would rather have Green-Ellis over Vereen. We don't know what we will get with Vereen. We knew what we would get with Green-Ellis. A reliable back that never fumbles with a tough running style.

I put know value in ME knowing what we have. I would certainly hope that BB doesn't make football decisions based on the fans comfort level of knowing what to expect from the players.
It would appear that BB would rather have Vereen than BJGE, because BJGE wanted to stay, and BB was not willing to pay him 3mill a year to not have to rely on Vereen.
I am sure there will be another RB brought in,
But, in response to your question, no I have next to no concern with plugging in whatever capable RB is on the roster. I think RB in this offense is a set up to succeed position, especially if you strip away the 50% of the plays we either have no RB or Woodhead in there.
I think for a RB to fail in BJGEs role he would have to be horrendous, and what we have isn't horrendous.
That is not a slam on BJGE, just a fact that RB in this offense is hard to fail at.

 

[EJ Blitz]

Didn't really agree with him coming initially because I thought he was somewhat overrated, but I'm feeling better and better about Lloyd as the days pass. It's probably withdrawals from a lack of any real football content. This offseason is going to be rough.

 

[Ring 6]

Let's not try and spin this broken record again Andy. Ridley and Vereen have to prove that they are upgrades. Ball security, especially turnovers is of paramount importance in the NFL. Right now, there are questions over Ridley's ball security. He is a far more explosive and dynamic runner than Green-Ellis ever was.

And they will or won't prove that. My point is that playing RB in this offense with these weapons and OL is not a difficult thing. We won't notice much of a difference with any capable RB in there.

I'd still like the Patriots to go after Jonathan Stewart with Matt Forte a pie in the sky proposition. If not, a bruiser to compliment Ridley, Vereen and Woodhead would be preferential. McDaniel's using the run game effectively would be high on my wish list for 2012.

I think the coaching staff believes its best chance to score points and win games is to have the ball in Tom Bradys hands, and we will continue to run only enough to keep defenses honest, and to run down the clock with a lead. That philosophy has a lot to do with the dynamic I mentioned above where any capable RB can find room to run in this offense.

 

[Ununcle]

I think for a RB to fail in BJGEs role he would have to be horrendous, and what we have isn't horrendous.
That is not a slam on BJGE, just a fact that RB in this offense is hard to fail at.

This. We do not need a running back.

 

[voluntarysaftey]

By the way, since this thread was a "Moss" vs "lloyde" impact thread, there's no question Randy had more of an impact to date in the NFL then Lloyde will ever have. However, Lloyd will have some advantages over Moss in this offence. Lloyd will be himself + Gronk/Dez/Welker. Moss was minus the tight ends.

Agree.

Moss + Welker 07 > Welker + Lloyd 12

Welker + Lloyd + Stallworth + Branch + maybe ocho + Gronk + Hernandez 12 much greater than Welker + Moss + Stallworth + Gaffney + Watson 07

 

[ausbacker]

And they will or won't prove that. My point is that playing RB in this offense with these weapons and OL is not a difficult thing. We won't notice much of a difference with any capable RB in there.

I don't agree with this. Whilst I acknowledge that rushing with Brady under center should be easy given the relative strength of the Patriots Offense, the run game and the use of the run game has been sporadic at best.

I think the coaching staff believes its best chance to score points and win games is to have the ball in Tom Bradys hands, and we will continue to run only enough to keep defenses honest, and to run down the clock with a lead. That philosophy has a lot to do with the dynamic I mentioned above where any capable RB can find room to run in this offense.

I am for putting the ball in Brady's hands but what happens when his accuracy percentage goes down, say he injures his shoulder in a game for instance and any competent runner simply isn't getting the job done? This is where you can't teach talent.

 

[ProudestRyno]

Why do people like Ausbacker and others continue to spit out the ignorance that Ridley has had fumbling issues through his football career?

 

[Ring 6]

I don't agree with this. Whilst I acknowledge that rushing with Brady under center should be easy given the relative strength of the Patriots Offense, the run game and the use of the run game has been sporadic at best.

I don't know why sporadic use of the run game would conflict with the idea that we wouldn't see much difference with any capable RB in there. In fact, it seems to support it.

I am for putting the ball in Brady's hands but what happens when his accuracy percentage goes down, say he injures his shoulder in a game for instance and any competent runner simply isn't getting the job done? This is where you can't teach talent.

I'm just decribing the philosophy.
I also think there is no real reason to believe that Ridley or Vereen would be any less effective than BJGE. I don't subscribe to the theory that anyone who has played a lot is better than anyone who has not, regardless of how well they played.
Are you saying BJGE had a level of talent that stands well above Ridley or Vereen, or did I misunderstand?
I don't imagine we would have done very well last year having Brady out and trying to win on the shoulders of BJGE.

 

[Ring 6]

Why do people like Ausbacker and others continue to spit out the ignorance that Ridley has had fumbling issues through his football career?

I don't think Aubacker is saying that.

 

[ProudestRyno]

Let's not try and spin this broken record again Andy. Ridley and Vereen have to prove that they are upgrades. Ball security, especially turnovers is of paramount importance in the NFL. Right now, there are questions over Ridley's ball security. He is a far more explosive and dynamic runner than Green-Ellis ever was.

I'd still like the Patriots to go after Jonathan Stewart with Matt Forte a pie in the sky proposition. If not, a bruiser to compliment Ridley, Vereen and Woodhead would be preferential. McDaniel's using the run game effectively would be high on my wish list for 2012.

Going after a Forte or Stewart who will at some point command a lot of money is bad usage of resources with the way the Pats offense is set up. RB is a relatively easy position to fill in the Patriot's offense. A marginal talent like BJGE being mildly successful proves that.

Steven Ridley is going to be huge, just watch. It would be a mistake to go after a "name RB" just because some of you aren't comfortable going with Ridley/Vereen because we don't yet know what to expect. Some of you need to learn to project. Just because we knew what to expect from BJGE doesnt mean it's valuable.


Where did you get that there are serious questions about Ridley's ball security? The 2 fumbles he had last year? TWO, 1 lost.

It's quite annoying how many people value BJGE and his 3.5 yds per carry without fumbles over the "unknown" combo of Ridley/Vereen and the possibility of a couple fumbles.

The fact that Ridley and Vereen are 10x more talented of runners than BJGE has me on board. BJGE was a marginal talent even though the Patriots offense creates such huge running lanes for the backs because defenses are constantly prepared to defend the pass.

I can't wait to see BJGE plod out to 3.4 yds a carry in the Bengals offense and maybe some people will shut up about him being gone.

 

[Ununcle]

I don't agree with this. Whilst I acknowledge that rushing with Brady under center should be easy given the relative strength of the Patriots Offense, the run game and the use of the run game has been sporadic at best.


I am for putting the ball in Brady's hands but what happens when his accuracy percentage goes down, say he injures his shoulder in a game for instance and any competent runner simply isn't getting the job done? This is where you can't teach talent.

With all due respect if Brady's accuracy percentage goes down, or he's injured, we go to plan "B" just like we did with Cassel. However, till then, we don't need some Complainian Tomlinson around to pick up the pieces of an offense that's not broke. Fark the running game. We have competent short outs in the receiving corps, and more then capable backs to keep defenses honest. We need to spend our remaining resources on a pass rush, and the secondary.

 

[ausbacker]

I don't know why sporadic use of the run game would conflict with the idea that we wouldn't see much difference with any capable RB in there. In fact, it seems to support it.

Not in particular. I have hated the use of the Patriots run game, but then again I'm not standing under center calling audibles based on the defense. My contention is how long can the Patriots keep going to the well with Tom Brady? He's carried the team for so long that a little respite may be in order.

I'm just decribing the philosophy.
I also think there is no real reason to believe that Ridley or Vereen would be any less effective than BJGE. I don't subscribe to the theory that anyone who has played a lot is better than anyone who has not, regardless of how well they played.
Are you saying BJGE had a level of talent that stands well above Ridley or Vereen, or did I misunderstand?
I don't imagine we would have done very well last year having Brady out and trying to win on the shoulders of BJGE.

I'm not saying that. In fact, I've said countless times that Ridley has demonstrated that he's a far more explosive back than Green-Ellis. Vereen is a great unknown but from short exposure, I liked the look of him. My contention is, when there is an opportunity to upscale at a position, you have to investigate it.

I'm sad to see Green-Ellis go, but he's replaceable. I had him pegged as a dependable albeit unspectacular player, a fine Patriots player.

I don't think Aubacker is saying that.

It's probably because I'm not, I've made mention that there's questions over his ball security, which includes rushing with the ball away from your body, something Adrian Peterson is horrendous at.

 

[ausbacker]

Going after a Forte or Stewart who will at some point command a lot of money is bad usage of resources with the way the Pats offense is set up. RB is a relatively easy position to fill in the Patriot's offense. A marginal talent like BJGE being mildly successful proves that.

Have I not made mention that RB is less of a need than other positions or did you simply not read that in the myriad of threads discussing the RB situation?

Steven Ridley is going to be huge, just watch. It would be a mistake to go after a "name RB" just because some of you aren't comfortable going with Ridley/Vereen because we don't yet know what to expect. Some of you need to learn to project. Just because we knew what to expect from BJGE doesnt mean it's valuable.

How is it possible for you to say Ridley will be huge then come out and tell people to learn how to project? I sure hope Ridley goes on to be a star. It makes it considerably easier for the offense. Hell, I hope Vereen goes on to be a star too.

Where did you get that there are serious questions about Ridley's ball security? The 2 fumbles he had last year? TWO, 1 lost.

You need to read up a little more.

It's quite annoying how many people value BJGE and his 3.5 yds per carry without fumbles over the "unknown" combo of Ridley/Vereen and the possibility of a couple fumbles.

It's quite annoying how many people denigrate former Patriots players because they're not on the team.

The fact that Ridley and Vereen are 10x more talented of runners than BJGE has me on board. BJGE was a marginal talent even though the Patriots offense creates such huge running lanes for the backs because defenses are constantly prepared to defend the pass.

How do you explain the huge passing numbers put up in 2011 if teams are happily defending the pass opposed to the rush? Wouldn't it make sense to have a stand out running given your qualification?

I can't wait to see BJGE plod out to 3.4 yds a carry in the Bengals offense and maybe some people will shut up about him being gone.

Yep, continue to play the disrespect card to a guy who gave the Patriots a few great years of service.

With all due respect if Brady's accuracy percentage goes down, or he's injured, we go to plan "B" just like we did with Cassel. However, till then, we don't need some Complainian Tomlinson around to pick up the pieces of an offense that's not broke. Fark the running game. We have competent short outs in the receiving corps, and more then capable backs to keep defenses honest. We need to spend our remaining resources on a pass rush, and the secondary.

I have no problem with spending resources on the defense, in fact I've been championing it for some time. I also realize free agency is only one part of team building.

 

[Ununcle]

If memory serves the last time a team gave its Kudo's to a RB for it's SB was the Broncos with Terell Davis. Remember that? Oh the pain that invokes. Terrell vs Curtis? Regardless, those days are long gone. It's a Passing game now. Any team spending the farm for a positional player like running back that has a shelf life of 3 or 4 years get what they deserve. Ask San Diego or Minnesota.

 

[Ring 6]

Not in particular. I have hated the use of the Patriots run game, but then again I'm not standing under center calling audibles based on the defense. My contention is how long can the Patriots keep going to the well with Tom Brady? He's carried the team for so long that a little respite may be in order.

It is starting to seem like running doesn't help set up the passing game, but can actually hamstring it by putting it in more long yardage situations. The game has definitely changed, and if you look at the Patriots when they are succeeding on offense they zip right down the field rarely getting into a 3rd down. When they are stopped they run more and end up in a lot of 3rd conversions and ultimately miss one. Now that is only a anecdotal example, but it seems that teams who rely heavily on the run are simply not the most effective offenses any more.
It also seems that defenses tend to sell out on those 3rd downs to get off the field, and they are pretty easy to pick apart of it you come out throwing on 1st and 2nd when they are more concerned with not giving up a big play.
That probably a much,much deeper topic that should be addressed here, but hey I had a thought so I posted it

I'm not saying that. In fact, I've said countless times that Ridley has demonstrated that he's a far more explosive back than Green-Ellis. Vereen is a great unknown but from short exposure, I liked the look of him. My contention is, when there is an opportunity to upscale at a position, you have to investigate it.

Yeah, thats why I said I may have misunderstood. I couldn't tell if by talent you meant BJGE or bringing someone in.
I think the cap makes you pick and choose though. What is known, but not to us, is where Ridley and Vereen are in BBs eyes. It could be anywhere from certain they are the future to worried they can do the job.

I'm sad to see Green-Ellis go, but he's replaceable. I had him pegged as a dependable albeit unspectacular player, a fine Patriots player.

Fair statement

It's probably because I'm not, I've made mention that there's questions over his ball security, which includes rushing with the ball away from your body, something Adrian Peterson is horrendous at.

I haven't seen inherent problems, other than on the one fumble which looked very bad. I didn't see that as a constant issue, more of a screw up than his M.O.

 

[Ununcle]

It is starting to seem like running doesn't help set up the passing game, but can actually hamstring it by putting it in more long yardage situations. The game has definitely changed, and if you look at the Patriots when they are succeeding on offense they zip right down the field rarely getting into a 3rd down. When they are stopped they run more and end up in a lot of 3rd conversions and ultimately miss one. Now that is only a anecdotal example, but it seems that teams who rely heavily on the run are simply not the most effective offenses any more.
It also seems that defenses tend to sell out on those 3rd downs to get off the field, and they are pretty easy to pick apart of it you come out throwing on 1st and 2nd when they are more concerned with not giving up a big play.
That probably a much,much deeper topic that should be addressed here, but hey I had a thought so I posted it



Yeah, thats why I said I may have misunderstood. I couldn't tell if by talent you meant BJGE or bringing someone in.
I think the cap makes you pick and choose though. What is known, but not to us, is where Ridley and Vereen are in BBs eyes. It could be anywhere from certain they are the future to worried they can do the job.



Fair statement


I haven't seen inherent problems, other than on the one fumble which looked very bad. I didn't see that as a constant issue, more of a screw up than his M.O.

In my mind I see either Riddly or Vereen as adequate. Again, we're not looking for a Barry Sanders to make something out of nothing. Someone to dart through a hole is all. Anyone with 2 legs, a strong heart, and a 20 something body will do. The Firm will find out sooner then later that those yards came easier then he thought without Brady.

 

[PatsFan24]

Via Twitter:

Cool.

10char

 

[Marqui]

Look at the way Lloyd easily toasts the press coverage at the line here. He's exactly what this offense needed. Brady has never really had this type of receiver in his whole career if you think about it.

 

[Finn McCool]

Via Twitter:

Great news!

 

[Nordberg]

Look at the way Lloyd easily toasts the press coverage at the line here. He's exactly what this offense needed. Brady has never really had this type of receiver in his whole career if you think about it.

The closest thing to Lloyd would be Terry Glenn in 2001. Glenn played one game with Brady against the Chargers. Glenn caught 7 passes for 110 yards, including a 21 yard TD.

Both are similiar in that they are sharp route runners with great hands.