McCourty Moving Forward: CB or S

[manxman2601]

manx, since you're so high on Barron, I took the opportunity to watch some YouTube film to refresh my memory of him.

Here's what I saw:
- great tackler, strong hands
- very decisive
- great anticipation of the play
- big and physical, looks like a LB even standing next to Hightower
- will line up on the slot receiver or TE
- will line up as a linebacker against the run
- does not have great recovery speed
- does not look like a cover corner, even on the slot tends to drop the guy after 5 yards... this may be the scheme not an indication of his ability
- strong in the box, but can get burned in the open field

In interviews, his early years he's pretty uncomfortable answering questions. Seems like a quiet guy. More recent interviews, he's more confident speaking to media. But honestly, he's not a great interview. Has good substance in his answers. Seems thoughtful.

I'm sold. Put him on the roster. BB will figure out how to place the talent around him. He would be the anchor to the secondary. But I stick by my claim that he's a true SS. He's not nearly as good in man coverage as he is roaming the field.

I remember a play where Rodney Harrison was playing deep safety against the Colts, playoff game. 3rd down. At the snap, Rodney let the TE run right down the seam, wide open, and hit the slant route where the ball was going to Reggie Wayne. It was an incredible instinctive play. He knew where the play was going, I assume based on down and distance and formation and tendencies. He covered an incredible amount of field to get to the spot before the ball got there. Huge gamble, because if Peyton pumps and throws to the TE instead, it's a TD. But it was exactly the play that was needed and somehow he knew. I must have watched that play a dozen times, trying to figure out what Rodney saw that tipped him off. I never did figure it out, only that he read the play and moved IMMEDIATELY on the snap.

I could see Barron making that play.

Glad you are a convert. Nice post.

When I project someone to the Patriots I do it, not by going by who I like, but by who's a fit for the Patriots. We know that the Patriots assign value on a number of criteria, not least on determining who on the roster that player is going to replace. That's why I jumperd on Barron so early:

1.He'd be filling the biggest hole on the Patriots roster (big jump in his value)
2. By all accounts, in 2010 he was, as you described, solely an in the box safety. Last year he really upped his game on pass defense. That suggests that he's very coachable, another trait the Patriots value in assigning a draft grade.
3. That coaching, Alabama defense, looks to be about the best coaching there is. That whole defense plays assignment controlled football, very much like the Pats.
4. Nick Saban was BB's defensive back coach at Cleveland I believe which might have some influence.
5. He's apparently a dedicated film watcher which is something else I think BB will value.

For those reasons, I just saw Barron's value to the Patriots being much higher than a number of those other prospects around him and once I accepted that he was a probable Patriot target, I started to like the other aspect which I was looking for, namely the ability to make plays on defense which I think we need and which I think Barron supplies, either in the run game or to a lesser degree, in the pass game.

But you were probably right in your initial post. I think we'll be very lucky if he falls to us. PFW has him as their 5th ranked prospect in the draft. I figure to be disappointed on the night.

 

[manxman2601]

This thread is why I have Stephon Gilmore so high on my personal board. He's a better than adequate outside CB, good in the nickel, but also has the size and skillset to play safety. Not entirely sold on him with a first rounder, but if we were to trade back into the early first, and we haven't already drafted Barron, then I think Gilmore would be a very good pick.

I'm also high on Harrison Smith as a 2nd/3rd round guy. Mike Mayock rates him very highly (says he's a 1st/2nd rounder*) and he gets to watch Notre Dame a lot. If anyone knows, it's probably going to be him.

* He actually says that teams have Smith in that range.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

For those reasons, I just saw Barron's value to the Patriots being much higher than a number of those other prospects around him and once I accepted that he was a probable Patriot target, I started to like the other aspect which I was looking for, namely the ability to make plays on defense which I think we need and which I think Barron supplies, either in the run game or to a lesser degree, in the pass game.

But you were probably right in your initial post. I think we'll be very lucky if he falls to us. PFW has him as their 5th ranked prospect in the draft. I figure to be disappointed on the night.

Barron has spent four years in our defense and probably even knows most of the terminology. He appears to be an excellent communicator as well as Alabama hardly ever had blown coverages.

But don't kid yourself, his coverage skills are average, his speed is not elite and his ball skills are not the best. If he runs under 4.5 at the combine, I expect him to jump up draft boards a half dozen spots or so.

Jets and Ravens fans seem to think that their teams are really high on Barron.

 

[patchick]

On the title question, I used to consider this question key...for Dowling rather than McCourty. But now, I find myself mentally allotting the two of them 1 CB and 1 S job. And I'll leave it to the coaches to sort out which is which.

 

[dryheat44]

On the title question, I used to consider this question key...for Dowling rather than McCourty. But now, I find myself mentally allotting the two of them 1 CB and 1 S job. And I'll leave it to the coaches to sort out which is which.

I sort of agree with this. In fact, I think Dowling was drafted to be an eventual safety, and with the benefit of an off-season, I think he'll play there, given a healthy slate of DBs. I think the ideal backfield would be a McCourty/Arrington and Chung/Dowling (or newcomer -- Griffin, DeCoud, Barron) in the base, with Arrington moving to the slot, Dowling moving outside, and the third safety coming in on the nickel. In the short yardage / goal line we go big, with Arrington leaving in favor of Barron or Ihedigbo (whom I suspect I like more than most in a limited role).

 

[mgteich]

I suspect that we simply presume a major role for a player who was on IR for his rookie season. I think that we might consider that it is relatively rare for someone in this position to become a major producer in the defense.

I agree that the coaches will find the appropriate role for both McCourty and Dowling.


And yes, I agree with your bottom line: alotting these two players 1 CB and 1 S job.

On the title question, I used to consider this question key...for Dowling rather than McCourty. But now, I find myself mentally allotting the two of them 1 CB and 1 S job. And I'll leave it to the coaches to sort out which is which.

 

[patchick]

I suspect that we simply presume a major role for a player who was on IR for his rookie season. I think that we might consider that it is relatively rare for someone in this position to become a major producer in the defense.

I agree that the coaches will find the appropriate role for both McCourty and Dowling.


And yes, I agree with your bottom line: alotting these two players 1 CB and 1 S job.

It's true that an IR rookie season is always a worry, but this case is a little unusual because Dowling was a starter (and looked good) in the only 2 games of his career. I can't recall a comparable situation, can you?

 

[patsfaninpa]

It's true that an IR rookie season is always a worry, but this case is a little unusual because Dowling was a starter (and looked good) in the only 2 games of his career. I can't recall a comparable situation, can you?

Ben Watson had an injury at an identical time in his career as Dowling. I thought Ras-I got hurt in Miami 1st game. Watson got hurt in that 04 kickoff game against Indy.Has come back and had a nice career. Not great. But, a good player. Watson picked at 32 and Dowling at 33.

 

[patchick]

Ben Watson had an injury at an identical time in his career as Dowling. I thought Ras-I got hurt in Miami 1st game. Watson got hurt in that 04 kickoff game against Indy.Has come back and had a nice career. Not great. But, a good player. Watson picked at 32 and Dowling at 33.

Ah, good call on Watson! I do get the sense that the rookie IR effect can be a kind of multiplier of the player's natural downward trajectory and doesn't usually derail a promising start.

OTOH, Stephen Neal managed to weather 2 early IRs as a UDFA long shot, so anything's possible. (Go, Tarpinian, go!)

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Ben Watson had an injury at an identical time in his career as Dowling. I thought Ras-I got hurt in Miami 1st game. Watson got hurt in that 04 kickoff game against Indy.Has come back and had a nice career. Not great. But, a good player. Watson picked at 32 and Dowling at 33.

Did Watson miss most of his final season in college with injuries?

Dowling has to prove he can stay healthy before we can begin to figure out where he projects best. That being said, it only makes sense to have someone we can plug in immediately if Dowling does a "Crable" on us again next season.

 

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

I'd be more sold on the idea of McCourty at safety if he were a better tackler.

 

[VrabelJr]

He's a Safety for sure. He struggles in man and excels in zone. Also, we need to get our 4-5 best DBs on the field all at the same time. I see that as being McCourty and Chung at Safety, Arrington and Dowling/Moore at CB and the loser of Dowling/Moore playing the Nickel.