* 2012 Draft Defensive Flankers *

[Off The Grid]

...That's "OutSide LineBackers" to you Earthlings.


8th in a Series

Good Evening, Ladies and Gents...

I humbly and quietly offer this Thread ~ the 8th of many, as I'll be circumnavigating the entire Roster ~ to my Fellow Patriots Fans ~ KoolAid Soaked Homers + Bile Soaked Haters, alike!! ~ as a Gathering Place ~ a common reference ~ for Flanker Prospects.

***

Zach Brown of North Carolina ~ 6.2/230

Zach Brown is an exceptionally gifted Athlete. He's blessed not only with blazing Speed, but commands outstanding Fluidity and explosive Torsion out of his breaks when he needs to rapidly redirect: as a Pass Defending Flanker ~ that's OutSide LineBacker, to you Earthlings!! ~ he is amazing.

As a Run Defender, he needs more work...or another 15 pounds.

Brown is clearly destined to play the Will, lest Tight Ends run over him all day...But he is far and away the best Pass Defender of this year's Flankers and in today's NFL, that makes his skill set a prized commodity, indeed.

Stud Horse!!

***

Courtney Upshaw of Alabama ~ 6.2/264

Courtney Upshaw brings an outstanding fusion of Run Defense and Pass Rush to the table.

He boasts tremendous Core Strength and excellent Mechanics, and can be a Bear to run on.

The very same strengths make him a Beast on the Pass Rush.

As a Pass Defender, however, he gets dubious grades on his Torsion ~ that's Turn + Burn Acuity, Earthlings!!

Upshaw clearly projects as a Sam Flanker ~ OutSide LineBacker, Earthlings!! ~ where his strengths as a Run Defender and Pass Rusher can best be featured. Obviously, you don't want him at Will Flanker, where Running Backs will be running past him, all day!!

As a Sam Flanker, though ~ or remaining at Defensive End ~ his lofty Market Value is fully warranted.

Stud Horse!!

***

Brandon Lindsey of PittsBurgh ~ 6.2/250

Brandon Lindsey has solid, balanced physical skills, making him a viable threat as a Pass Rusher, as well as a decent Run Defender, and a solid Pass Defender.

He has unremarkable Core Strength, but excellent Core Flexibility, and his commendable Lateral Agility and superior Processing Speed and Diagnostic Acuity give him an edge, going into the Draft.

This is a guy with only slightly superior physical talents, but who understands the game very well, and can probably be expected to do his job effectively at the next level, and indeed to improve as time marches on. His 2nd or 3rd Round Market Value is a little rich, perhaps, but not egregiously so.

Player!!

***

Bruce Irvin of West Virginia ~ 6.2/245

Bruce Irvin is the most dangerous Pass Rusher in the entire 2012 Draft.

He commands frighteningly explosive Launch Velocity.

His Core Strength is only average, but he commands outstanding Fluidity, Torsion, and Lateral Agility.

He's extremely new to the job, and he shows it, but he already exhibits tremendous Instincts and Diagnostic Acuity, which can only get better as he continues to master it.

His resume is very thin on Run Defense and Pass Defense. While his mesmerizing natural skills suggest that he could become awfully good at both, growing pains will abound in the early going.

His Past is scary as Hell, bad enough that he'll be off many Boards...But he's scrapped and clawed his way out'f the darkness, and now gets accolades for his Focus and Passion.

He was over hyped coming into his Senior year, but with his stats having returned to Earth, his Market Value has slid rather emphatically: He's actually looking at the 2nd or 3rd Round, at this point. Irvin is a classic High Risk ~ High Reward pay, but and if he remains that range, he'll be one of the great Steals of the Draft!!

Sleeper Super Beast!!

***

LaVonte David of Nebraska ~ 6.1/225

LaVonte David has a smaller Frame, so he will always have some limitations in Run Defense and in his Pass Rush.

But he commands a stunning fusion of frightening Launch Velocity, powerfull, coiled Core Strength, incredibly explosive Torsion out of his breaks, sweet Fluidity, tremendous Lateral Agility, and absolutely mesmerizing Verticity ~ Turn + Burn Acuity ~ as a Pass Defender.

But all that pales in comparison to the lofty grades he gets for exceptional Diagnostic Acuity and stunning Processing Speed: Young Mister David projects, in my book, as a Master of the Game.

He could play anywhere and contribute consistently and well, but if one were to harness his full potential, it would seem that Will Flanker ~ OLB, Earthlings!! ~ preferably in a Cover 2, would be his best bet.

Because of his size and his pedestrian "40" time, David is looking at a Market Value somewhere in the 2nd or, more likely, the 3rd Round. For my money, that is an absolutely amazing Bargain.

This guy has "How the hell did such a short, small, slow guy forge such an amazing career??" written all over him.

...If he doesn't get killed in an head on collision.

Sleeper Beast!!

***

Travis Lewis of Oklahoma ~ 6.2/228

Travis Lewis command exceptional Core Strength, tremendous Fluidity, and absolutely outstanding Lateral Agility in the Run Game, and while his size will always be a concern, he consistently plays low, moves quickly, and brings explosive Torsion out of his breaks, winning many Leverage Battles and making plays.

In the Passing Game, he brings great Verticity ~ Turn + Burn Acuity, to you Earthlings!! ~ to the table, and, above all, both excellent Diagnostic Acuity and superior Processing Speed, allowing him to reliably and consistently read the play, flip the hips, burst on the ball, and arrive on time.

As with most smaller Flankers ~ OLB's, to you Earthlings!! ~ he'd be best as a Will Flanker, preferably in a Cover 2, but he should be a remarkable one. Looking at a 2nd or 3rd ~ probably 3rd ~ Round Market Value, I would cal him a pretty sweet Bargain to the team that drafts him, should that Market Value prove true in late April.

Sleeper Stud Horse!!

***

Kenny Tate of MaryLand ~ 6.4/220

Kenny Tate was projected as a Free Safety, last year.

Fail.

Kenny Tate is projected as a Flanker ~ OLB, to you Earthlings ~ this year.

Fail.

Kenny Tate is Strong Safety ~ perhaps a Rover Back in the "425" Big Nickel ~ and potentially a good one.

His Diagnostic Acuity and Processing Speed are excellent: He Reads + Reacts Rapidly.

His Athleticism ~ his Lateral Agility, his Fluidity, and his Torsion ~ Burst out of Breaks ~ are exceptional.

His Verticity ~ his Turn + Burn Acuity, Earthlings ~ sucks.

But his Smarts and his Athleticism should allow him to make that aspect of his Game acceptable.

Tate's Market Value is hard to evaluate, because of his Injury...

Indeed, he would be best served by being allowed to return for an additional year of eligibility...

Dark Horse!!

***

Keenan Robinson of Texas ~ 6.3/240

Keenan Robinson brings exceptional Athleticism to the table ~ Lateral Agility, Fluidity, and Torsion ~ Burst out of his Breaks, to you Earthlings.

But he doesn't bring much else.

He get dubious grades on his Core Strength and Core Flexibility, and while he can get to play with the best of'm, he can most definitely be run on.

And his Verticity in the Passing Game ~ Turn + Burn Acuity, Earthlings!! ~ is equally sketchy.

Exacerbating his physical limitations are doubts about his Diagnostic Acuity and Processing Speed.

As a projected 3rd or 4th Rounder, he strikes me as highly OverRated.

OverRated!!

***

Sean Spence of Miami ~ 5.11/224

Sean Spence isn't the biggest guy in the world, and doesn't command the Core Strength to make up for it.

He can be run on.

In the Passing Game, though, he brings outstanding Verticity ~ Turn + Burn Acuity ~ to the table.

I see Sean Spence as a good but not exceptional fit in a Cover 2.

Indeed, you could make a very strong Argument that he'd be best as Strong Safety.

Currently, his Market Value seems to be floating around the 3rd or 4th Round, and that looks to be about right...

Role Player!!

 

[MaineMan]

"Flanker"/Defender (OLB), current status:

- Mayo has been playing a lot of OLB and has proven that he can play very well from any LB position and is well worth the five-year extension. However, (IMHO) his optimal use is in the middle (4-3 MLB or 3-4 ILB) where his sideline-to-sideline range comes into play. Unfortunately, that may not be optimal for the defense overall until the Pats have TWO solid defenders at "flanker". As of the moment, they have only one:
- Ninkovich. He's no superstar, but has become a solid, consistent Defender (as opposed to "attacker"). He sets the edge and plays the run very well now (and doesn't bite on play-action nearly as much as he did in the first half of 2010), shedding blocks and getting in on a lot of tackles. His coverage is good enough for his role. He's no pass-rush stud, but he does have 4.5 sacks so far this season (on top of his 4 from 2010), several QB hits and he has drawn a couple of holding flags on opponents (though not nearly as many times as he's actually been held). His rush ability is mostly limited to being savvy enough to take advantage of an OL mistake, though not enough to force an error on his own. Which is fine by me. Overall, I'd saying he's doing his job just fine (and he can also play with his hand on the ground from a DE spot). If the Pats had another Defender just like Ninko on the other side, Mayo would likely be back in the middle full time.

However, the options for this are:

- Guyton, who has done some swell things fro the Pats over the past nearly 3 seasons, especially for a UDFA, but mostly from the inside rather than at "Flanker" (IMHO) and not all that consistently well. I'm not "anti-Guyton" and would be happy to keep him. However, IIRC, this is his contract year and I don't see him as being irreplaceable, because I don't see him being enormously better than:
- Fletcher or even Koutouvides and Tracy White, all of whom are good special teams guys and decent contributors in limited snaps on scrimmage defense, but not nearly the solid, every-down, all-purpose Defender that seems required at "Flanker" for the Pats, regardless of 3-4 or 4-3.

And then there's:
- Cunningham. In his rookie season, he appeared to be headed in the direction of developing into a sound Defender with some potential to contribute perhaps a bit more rush than Ninko. I have no idea (beyond never-ending injuries and missing his sophomore off-season development) why he completely fell off the face of the Earth this season before going to IR, but I personally wouldn't be counting on him for next season.

Of course, all of the above is intended to contrast with the "attackers" - the 4-3 DEs - who may be called upon to be defenders every so often. In this regard:
- Andre Carter has been very good in this role - getting much more consistent pressure than TBC did, AND setting the edge/playing the run much better, too. None of which means he'll be able to transition into a solid defender/flanker like Ninko - at least not while continuing his attacking accomplishments. And Carter is also going to hit age 33 in mid-May. I can see him maintaining his current level of play in his current role for another 2-3 years and it would be very good for the Pats to retain him. But, IMHO, he's not in the "Flanker" discussion.

Neither are:
- Anderson, who's been a good rush-specialist and has improved his run defense a bit over the season, but not nearly enough, at this point, for the Flanker/Defender role.
- Eric Moore, who seems primarily a relief man, emergency sub for the Anderson/Carter roles.

Also out of the Flanker discussion, is:
- Spikes. I like what I've seen of him when he's been healthy (and not suspended). He doesn't have the range to be more than a two-down, inside guy, but he's strong and has great anticipation against the run and knows how to shed and close down gaps (or shoot a gap when called for). IOW, he's a perfect complement to Mayo if they're both playing inside in a 3-4 set. He's not quite so perfect as an MLB in a 4-3 set, but still probably better for the first two downs than anyone else the Pats have at the moment (assuming Mayo at Flanker). He might even become excellent eventually, if he can stay on the field for a significant stretch of games.

Lastly, there's the practice squad guys - Silvestro, Markell Carter and Mike Rivera. I wasn't particularly impressed with Silvestro in the pre-season; he seemed like an ordinary PS/scout team guy to me. OTOH, someone appears to like Carter, though I suspect it's more for a 4-3 DE role than as a Flanker/Defender (If it were the latter, I'd think he might already be on the active roster.) Don't really know much about Rivera except that he was a stalwart all-around LB at Kansas in 2007-08, posted great ProDay numbers and since then has failed to make the active rosters of CHI, TEN, GBY and MIA.

Bottom line for me is that, regardless what the 2012 proportion of 3-4 to 4-3 set begins as or becomes over the course of the season, an upgrade at Flanker/Defender is entirely in order (perhaps even another 2nd-rounder). If the guy comes with some significant pass-rush chops, that's a bonus, but not the primary qualification. This does not preclude the Pats from going for a pass-rushing DE, but perhaps makes it more likely they'd take a raw talent (Cameron Wake type) in a later round.

 

[Off The Grid]

Terrific.

Just terrific.

"Flanker"/Defender (OLB), current status:

- Mayo has been playing a lot of OLB and has proven that he can play very well from any LB position and is well worth the five-year extension. However, (IMHO) his optimal use is in the middle (4-3 MLB or 3-4 ILB) where his sideline-to-sideline range comes into play. Unfortunately, that may not be optimal for the defense overall until the Pats have TWO solid defenders at "flanker". As of the moment, they have only one:

- Ninkovich. He's no superstar, but has become a solid, consistent Defender (as opposed to "attacker"). He sets the edge and plays the run very well now (and doesn't bite on play-action nearly as much as he did in the first half of 2010), shedding blocks and getting in on a lot of tackles. His coverage is good enough for his role. He's no pass-rush stud, but he does have 4.5 sacks so far this season (on top of his 4 from 2010), several QB hits and he has drawn a couple of holding flags on opponents (though not nearly as many times as he's actually been held). His rush ability is mostly limited to being savvy enough to take advantage of an OL mistake, though not enough to force an error on his own. Which is fine by me. Overall, I'd saying he's doing his job just fine (and he can also play with his hand on the ground from a DE spot). If the Pats had another Defender just like Ninko on the other side, Mayo would likely be back in the middle full time.

However, the options for this are:

- Guyton, who has done some swell things fro the Pats over the past nearly 3 seasons, especially for a UDFA, but mostly from the inside rather than at "Flanker" (IMHO) and not all that consistently well. I'm not "anti-Guyton" and would be happy to keep him. However, IIRC, this is his contract year and I don't see him as being irreplaceable, because I don't see him being enormously better than:

- Fletcher or even Koutouvides and Tracy White, all of whom are good special teams guys and decent contributors in limited snaps on scrimmage defense, but not nearly the solid, every-down, all-purpose Defender that seems required at "Flanker" for the Pats, regardless of 3-4 or 4-3.

And then there's:

- Cunningham. In his rookie season, he appeared to be headed in the direction of developing into a sound Defender with some potential to contribute perhaps a bit more rush than Ninko. I have no idea (beyond never-ending injuries and missing his sophomore off-season development) why he completely fell off the face of the Earth this season before going to IR, but I personally wouldn't be counting on him for next season.

Of course, all of the above is intended to contrast with the "attackers" - the 4-3 DEs - who may be called upon to be defenders every so often. In this regard:

- Andre Carter has been very good in this role - getting much more consistent pressure than TBC did, AND setting the edge/playing the run much better, too. None of which means he'll be able to transition into a solid defender/flanker like Ninko - at least not while continuing his attacking accomplishments. And Carter is also going to hit age 33 in mid-May. I can see him maintaining his current level of play in his current role for another 2-3 years and it would be very good for the Pats to retain him. But, IMHO, he's not in the "Flanker" discussion.

Neither are:

- Anderson, who's been a good rush-specialist and has improved his run defense a bit over the season, but not nearly enough, at this point, for the Flanker/Defender role.

- Eric Moore, who seems primarily a relief man, emergency sub for the Anderson/Carter roles.

Also out of the Flanker discussion, is:

- Spikes. I like what I've seen of him when he's been healthy (and not suspended). He doesn't have the range to be more than a two-down, inside guy, but he's strong and has great anticipation against the run and knows how to shed and close down gaps (or shoot a gap when called for). IOW, he's a perfect complement to Mayo if they're both playing inside in a 3-4 set. He's not quite so perfect as an MLB in a 4-3 set, but still probably better for the first two downs than anyone else the Pats have at the moment (assuming Mayo at Flanker). He might even become excellent eventually, if he can stay on the field for a significant stretch of games.

Lastly, there's the practice squad guys - Silvestro, Markell Carter and Mike Rivera. I wasn't particularly impressed with Silvestro in the pre-season; he seemed like an ordinary PS/scout team guy to me. OTOH, someone appears to like Carter, though I suspect it's more for a 4-3 DE role than as a Flanker/Defender (If it were the latter, I'd think he might already be on the active roster.) Don't really know much about Rivera except that he was a stalwart all-around LB at Kansas in 2007-08, posted great ProDay numbers and since then has failed to make the active rosters of CHI, TEN, GBY and MIA.

Bottom line for me is that, regardless what the 2012 proportion of 3-4 to 4-3 set begins as or becomes over the course of the season, an upgrade at Flanker/Defender is entirely in order (perhaps even another 2nd-rounder). If the guy comes with some significant pass-rush chops, that's a bonus, but not the primary qualification. This does not preclude the Pats from going for a pass-rushing DE, but perhaps makes it more likely they'd take a raw talent (Cameron Wake type) in a later round.

1 ~ Great Point about Mayo: Excellent Flanker, but potentially great Mid Fielder...IF we can get another Flanker.

2 ~ I also have my doubts about the other Flanker being currently on the roster.

3 ~ I'm toying with the idea of drafting Bruce Irvin. I'm sure many smart men will dislike that notion, as Irvin is not only a freaking Gangster ~ Ex-Gangster, mind you!! ~ but has made his bones Rushing the Passer. However, I do believe he's got the skill set and the mentality to become an exceptional Run Defender. My notion is to break him in during his Rookie year on Passing Downs ~ with Mayo kicking inside and supplanting Spikes ~ with a mind towards him eventually making that move permanent. I'd love to know your thoughts on that, even though I strongly suspect they wouldn't be favorable!!

4 ~ LaVonte David is also a favorite of mine ~ and of many others, I've noticed!! ~ who I wouldn't want in on Running Downs, but who I think could be amazing on Passing Downs!!

5 ~ I love Dane Fletcher, and I'm really intrigued by his possibilities as a MidFielder...I don't know if he's got the Range for Flanker. I gather you don't think so??

6 ~ Jeff Tarpinian intrigues me, as well, and strikes me as being a Dark Horse candidate for Flanker or MidFielder, though I'd rather have both of them coming off the bench.

7 ~ Miles Burris is one UFA candidate I've got my eye on as a potential Flanker, down the line. I am VERY hot on this kid.

8 ~ Even though I've converted to the "43" as a Base D, I must say that ~ retaining the "34" as situational substitute and possible 2012 Renaissance, THIS Mid Field Defense holds considerable appeal to me:

Running Downs

Rob Ninkovich
Brandon Spikes
Jerod Mayo
Bruce Irvin

Rob Ninkovich
Jerod Mayo
LaVonte David
Bruce Irvin

 

[MaineMan]

Terrific.

Just terrific.



1 ~ Great Point about Mayo: Excellent Flanker, but potentially great Mid Fielder...IF we can get another Flanker.

2 ~ I also have my doubts about the other Flanker being currently on the roster.

3 ~ I'm toying with the idea of drafting Bruce Irvin. I'm sure many smart men will dislike that notion, as Irvin is not only a freaking Gangster ~ Ex-Gangster, mind you!! ~ but has made his bones Rushing the Passer. However, I do believe he's got the skill set and the mentality to become an exceptional Run Defender. My notion is to break him in during his Rookie year on Passing Downs ~ with Mayo kicking inside and supplanting Spikes ~ with a mind towards him eventually making that move permanent. I'd love to know your thoughts on that, even though I strongly suspect they wouldn't be favorable!!

4 ~ LaVonte David is also a favorite of mine ~ and of many others, I've noticed!! ~ who I wouldn't want in on Running Downs, but who I think could be amazing on Passing Downs!!

5 ~ I love Dane Fletcher, and I'm really intrigued by his possibilities as a MidFielder...I don't know if he's got the Range for Flanker. I gather you don't think so??

6 ~ Jeff Tarpinian intrigues me, as well, and strikes me as being a Dark Horse candidate for Flanker or MidFielder, though I'd rather have both of them coming off the bench.

7 ~ Miles Burris is one UFA candidate I've got my eye on as a potential Flanker, down the line. I am VERY hot on this kid.

8 ~ Even though I've converted to the "43" as a Base D, I must say that ~ retaining the "34" as situational substitute and possible 2012 Renaissance, THIS Mid Field Defense holds considerable appeal to me:

Running Downs

Rob Ninkovich
Brandon Spikes
Jerod Mayo
Bruce Irvin

Rob Ninkovich
Jerod Mayo
LaVonte David
Bruce Irvin

I don't dislike Fletcher at all, but I'm not enamored with him yet. Nor am I sold on him becoming anything more than a decent reserve Flanker/Mid-Fielder/Utility LB, though I don't completely rule out further development. Before his injury, he certainly seemed to shed and tackle better than Guyton and perhaps approached assignments with a bit more situational awareness. Haven't really seen enough of him to have a feel for his comparative range. He may well have a little more upside than Guyton, who I believe reached his ceiling last season. Basically, with a healthy Fletcher on board, the Pats don't lose any ground if Guyton walks in FA.

I see Tarpinian potentially as a coverage LB specialist. As I posted in a free safety thread, I believe he converted from coverage safety to LB at Iowa. And, at 6'2"/238, he ran drills at his ProDay that would have matched/surpassed the numbers posted by pretty much all but the top few safeties at the Combine. However, as I also noted elsewhere, there appears to be a huge injury attrition rate all around the league (not only with the Pats) among LBs and safeties who make their living in pass coverage over the middle.

Spikes is simultaneously an interesting and awkward proposition. In a 3-4, he and Mayo might well develop into the best ILB tandem ever, they complement each other so well. And I really do think he'd be a very good MLB in a 4-3 set for at least two downs. But that would still push Mayo to OLB and Mayo could be an exceptional 3-down MLB, I think. Seems like a good problem to have, but where it gets awkward is that one of them, or Ninko, or any new high-quality Flanker, would have to come off the field in 4-3 sets. Which seems like wasting personnel.

If no new high-quality Flanker is acquired/emerges, it's a moot point. If one DOES, then maybe it nudges the scheme back toward more 3-4 sets a bit. But that may also trigger a couple new problems:
- ensuring that they have solid 3-4 DEs in sufficient numbers
- figuring out what to do with Andre Carter, Mark Anderson, et al (e.g., would Carter function as well overall in a reduced "Elepahnt" role as he does now as a more or less full time DE?)

OTOH, another solid Flanker (more than any other front seven upgrade, perhaps) enhances scheme versatility by enabling more viable 3-4 sets, which is probably a net gain.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Courtney Upshaw of Alabama ~ 6.2/264

Courtney Upshaw brings an outstanding fusion of Run Defense and Pass Rush to the table.

He boasts tremendous Core Strength and excellent Mechanics, and can be a Bear to run on.

The very same strengths make him a Beast on the Pass Rush.

As a Pass Defender, however, he gets dubious grades on his Torsion ~ that's Turn + Burn Acuity, Earthlings!!

Upshaw clearly projects as a Sam Flanker ~ OutSide LineBacker, Earthlings!! ~ where his strengths as a Run Defender and Pass Rusher can best be featured. Obviously, you don't want him at Will Flanker, where Running Backs will be running past him, all day!!

As a Sam Flanker, though ~ or remaining at Defensive End ~ his lofty Market Value is fully warranted.

Stud Horse!!

***[/B]

For me this is the guy! I would not be sad if BB actually traded up for this kid.

Bottom line is he makes a ton of plays in the SEC. Both against the pass and against the run. Inside or outside. Left or right side. Opposing teams actually have to game plan for him.

If he runs well at the combine,we have to do whatever it takes to get him.

If we can add OLB Upshaw, DE Cox, SS Barron, CB Judie and FS Martin (or Lester or McDonald) via the draft our defense is a top 20 defense next season and will continue to get better by playoff time.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

For me this is the guy! I would not be sad if BB actually traded up for this kid.

Bottom line is he makes a ton of plays in the SEC. Both against the pass and against the run. Inside or outside. Left or right side. Opposing teams actually have to game plan for him.

If he runs well at the combine,we have to do whatever it takes to get him.

If we can add OLB Upshaw, DE Cox, SS Barron, CB Judie and FS Martin (or Lester or McDonald) via the draft our defense is a top 20 defense next season and will continue to get better by playoff time.

He's also too short. If Alabama lists him 6'1, he's probably about 6 ft tall. Bill won't take him.

Our best chances at a 34OLB/43DE is Curry in the 1st round or Cam Johnson in the 2nd round. Both of them would be nice.

 

[manxman2601]

He's also too short. If Alabama lists him 6'1, he's probably about 6 ft tall. Bill won't take him.

Our best chances at a 34OLB/43DE is Curry in the 1st round or Cam Johnson in the 2nd round. Both of them would be nice.

Ninja

Interesting on Curry and Johnson. Most big boards I've seen have Curry as a late second pick and Johnson (who I like) as a 3-4 rounder. Are you projecting them to go in the rounds you've mentioned? Do you have a big board you'd like to share?

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Ninja

Interesting on Curry and Johnson. Most big boards I've seen have Curry as a late second pick and Johnson (who I like) as a 3-4 rounder. Are you projecting them to go in the rounds you've mentioned? Do you have a big board you'd like to share?

Those boards usually rate them from their performance of their 2011 season.

I think Curry (1-2nd round) and Cam (2nd to 3rd) after the combine and Senior Bowl. Clay Matthews was rated as a 3rd to 5th round prospect and he jumped to 1st to 2nd round grade after the combine.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

He's also too short. If Alabama lists him 6'1, he's probably about 6 ft tall. Bill won't take him.

Our best chances at a 34OLB/43DE is Curry in the 1st round or Cam Johnson in the 2nd round. Both of them would be nice.

Height is a consideration and fortunately the combine will solve that issue. However there is no denying playmaking ability and this kid makes a ton of plays in the toughest conference is football.

If Upshaw is off the board, then I would not mind if we take Curry in the second round. However Johnson sticks to blocks like superglue and we don;t need anymore of those types on our defense.

 

[SirApropos]

Maryland S/LB Kenny Tate is among 4 Terps who have been granted an extra year of eligibility for medical hardship. Tate, a 2010 first-team all-conference pick at safety, started four games at OLB this fall, but missed the final eight games of the season because of a knee injury.

From the GBN
Great Blue North Draft Report

 

[Off The Grid]

Courtney Upshaw of Alabama ~ 6.2/264

Courtney Upshaw brings an outstanding fusion of Run Defense and Pass Rush to the table.

He boasts tremendous Core Strength and excellent Mechanics, and can be a Bear to run on.

The very same strengths make him a Beast on the Pass Rush.

As a Pass Defender, however, he gets dubious grades on his Torsion ~ that's Turn + Burn Acuity, Earthlings!!

Upshaw clearly projects as a Sam Flanker ~ OutSide LineBacker, Earthlings!! ~ where his strengths as a Run Defender and Pass Rusher can best be featured. Obviously, you don't want him at Will Flanker, where Running Backs will be running past him, all day!!

As a Sam Flanker, though ~ or remaining at Defensive End ~ his lofty Market Value is fully warranted.

Stud Horse!!

For me this is the guy! I would not be sad if BB actually traded up for this kid.

Bottom line is he makes a ton of plays in the SEC. Both against the pass and against the run. Inside or outside. Left or right side. Opposing teams actually have to game plan for him.

If he runs well at the combine,we have to do whatever it takes to get him.

If we can add OLB Upshaw, DE Cox, SS Barron, CB Judie and FS Martin (or Lester or McDonald) via the draft our defense is a top 20 defense next season and will continue to get better by playoff time.

Well SAID, sir!! :rocker:

Absolutely love Upshaw...

And if we can load UP on high caliber Defenders, next year, I'll be JACKED!!

 

[Off The Grid]

I don't dislike Fletcher at all, but I'm not enamored with him yet. Nor am I sold on him becoming anything more than a decent reserve Flanker/Mid-Fielder/Utility LB, though I don't completely rule out further development. Before his injury, he certainly seemed to shed and tackle better than Guyton and perhaps approached assignments with a bit more situational awareness. Haven't really seen enough of him to have a feel for his comparative range. He may well have a little more upside than Guyton, who I believe reached his ceiling last season. Basically, with a healthy Fletcher on board, the Pats don't lose any ground if Guyton walks in FA.

I see Tarpinian potentially as a coverage LB specialist. As I posted in a free safety thread, I believe he converted from coverage safety to LB at Iowa. And, at 6'2"/238, he ran drills at his ProDay that would have matched/surpassed the numbers posted by pretty much all but the top few safeties at the Combine. However, as I also noted elsewhere, there appears to be a huge injury attrition rate all around the league (not only with the Pats) among LBs and safeties who make their living in pass coverage over the middle.

Spikes is simultaneously an interesting and awkward proposition. In a 3-4, he and Mayo might well develop into the best ILB tandem ever, they complement each other so well. And I really do think he'd be a very good MLB in a 4-3 set for at least two downs. But that would still push Mayo to OLB and Mayo could be an exceptional 3-down MLB, I think. Seems like a good problem to have, but where it gets awkward is that one of them, or Ninko, or any new high-quality Flanker, would have to come off the field in 4-3 sets. Which seems like wasting personnel.

If no new high-quality Flanker is acquired/emerges, it's a moot point. If one DOES, then maybe it nudges the scheme back toward more 3-4 sets a bit. But that may also trigger a couple new problems:

- ensuring that they have solid 3-4 DEs in sufficient numbers
- figuring out what to do with Andre Carter, Mark Anderson, et al (e.g., would Carter function as well overall in a reduced "Elepahnt" role as he does now as a more or less full time DE?)

OTOH, another solid Flanker (more than any other front seven upgrade, perhaps) enhances scheme versatility by enabling more viable 3-4 sets, which is probably a net gain.

Great stuff, Brother Maine...

I particularly like the stuff on Tarpinian. He's not only a DIABOLICAL Special Teams player, but a potentially potent weapon, as you've indicated, at what most call "Star" and I refer to as "Rover Back"...or simply as a Passing Down MidFielder.

I wasn't aware of the high attrition rate, there.

Worrisome.

***

I must say: I wonder about the Ripple Effect of Carter's injury: Not only on the enormous impact on this year's chances for a Championship, but, because he's such a vital part of our "43" Set, and as this injury may put his future effectiveness in doubt, at his age...I can't help but wonder if this could actually make a big difference on Coach Bill's choice of "Base", next year.

 

[State]

You didn't mention Melvin Ingram out of South Carolina? Bad boy.

Look at him score a TD, something like 70 yards, on a fake punt. Georgia players are intimidated. Look at Boykin #2--who had a monster game in the Outback Bowl against Michigan State--whiff at the rhino legs.

Melvin Ingram Fake Punt for TD - South Carolina vs. Georgia 2011 - YouTube

He's a 4-3 pass rusher who looks at least ten pounds heavier than Andre Carter. He obviously has the athletic tools and has come out of nowhere to establish himself as a bona fide first round talent.

 

[Off The Grid]

You didn't mention Melvin Ingram out of South Carolina? Bad boy.

Uhhh...You know Ingram is only JUST beginning to be characterized by SOME as a Flanker, right??

Please note the date on my posts. :snob:

Please also note: Characterizing him primarily as a Flanker is insane.

 

[Off The Grid]

Uhhh...You know Ingram is only JUST beginning to be characterized by SOME as a Flanker, right??

Please note the date on my posts. :snob:

Please also note: Characterizing him primarily as a Flanker is insane.

January's Insanity is March's Madness!!

 

[Off The Grid]

Explanation of Colors + Numbers

1 ~ Red = OverRated ~ in my OH so humble opinion!!

2 ~ Purple = Sleeper or Steal or Super Sleeper!!

3 ~ Blue = Bargain ~ Good Value.

4 ~ The first number = Market Value ~ my best guess, based on CBS, Walter, Et Cetera...

5 ~ The second number = FIENDISH Value ~ how I grade them!!

6 ~ These will all be Cut + Pasted from yon Site, so the formats are different.

An Explanation of My Twisted ViewPoint!!

I have no intention or expectation of converting anyone to my view of things, of course. That doesn't happen, anyway: People make up their own minds in their own way...But an explanation is warranted, I think, out of respect to those of you who do me the honor of reading these Works.

***


I will not try to discern between "43" Flankers and "34" Flankers at this point, as I find the line to be rather fuzzy!!

...Except in New EngLand, of course!!

In case anyone's wondering: I find "LineBacker" to be a term that both shows a distinct lack of appreciation for the importance of MidFielders ~ I include both Flankers and ( Inner) MidFielders in that general term ~ and which is also ridiculously clunky...and that's before adding "OutSide" or "InSide" to it!! So it must go...

With Flankers, I'm looking in at two main aspects of their Games:

1 ~ Run Defense
2 ~ Pass Rush

Pass Defense is of some concern, but is dwarfed by the first two, save in Tampa 2 Prospects, where Pass Defense is in fact more important than Pass Rush at this position. I hope you enjoy!!

***

Mel Ingram ~ 6.1/264 ~ 1st ~ 1st

Beast!! Mel Ingram is a ferocious Pass Rusher who commands a terrifying fusion of Core Strength, Fluidity, Torsion, Dexterity, and Lateral Agility.

His overall Game is still a bit raw, but his Repertoire of Pass Rush Moves and his Savvy are very impressive.

He's a stout Run Defender as well, all those attributes serving him considerably well in shedding Blockers.

Coming out as a Tackle, he'll have very little experience in Pass Defense, but that is of little import.

Ingram's Market Value is more'n fully warranted. Deal!!

Courtney Upshaw ~ 6.2/273 ~ 1st ~ 1st

Beast!! Courtney Upshaw commands a really sweet fusion of outstanding Core Strength, combined with remarkable Torsion ~ explosion in tight areas ~ and Lateral Agility, making him a Force in the Pass Rush.

He's a Beast against the Run, combining tremendous Processing Speed with Core Power and Burst to make a lot of plays and consistently complete them.

He looks like a mid to late 1st. Fair Value!!

Zach Brown ~ 6.1/243 ~ 1st-2nd ~ 1st

Beast!! Zach Brown commands phenomenal Verticity for a Flanker!! That's Turn + Burn Acuity, to you Earthlings, and it speaks to the ability to Flip the Hips and run with Receivers!!

Zach Brown is outstanding at that, and that alone makes him a terrific "43" candidate, and an amazing Tampa 2 Prospect!!

And he's an exceptional Run Defender, commanding an extremely impressive fusion of Core Strength, Fluidity, and Lateral Agility. He's not nearly as physical as you might like to see, though.

His Pass Rush is raw, but the skills are clearly there.

A tremendous prospect, well worth the Squeeze. Deal!!

Shea McClellin ~ 6.3/260 ~ 2nd ~ 1st

Beast!! Shea McClellin commands a phenomenal fusion of Core Strength, Explosion, Processing Speed, amazing Passion and Worth Ethic, and Savvy!!

He boasts an impressive Pass Rushing Repertoire, and is a Beast in the Run Game, as well.

He's even showing rapidly developing Verticity, despite being new to the concept of Pass Defending.

It is rare to see such a combination of Power, Strength, Athleticism in all directions, together with such impressive Intelligence and relentless Work Ethic!!

Shea McLellin has risen all the way from UFA land to the Second Round ~ more's the pity!! ~ and even a further ascension all the way to the first Round would be fully warranted, in my view. Steal!!

LaVonte David ~ 6.1/234 ~ 2nd ~ 1st

Beast!! LaVonte David has a somewhat smaller Frame, so he will presumably always have some limitations in both Run Defense and in his Pass Rush.

But he commands an amazing fusion of frightening Launch Velocity, powerfull, coiled Core Strength, incredibly explosive Torsion out of his breaks, sweet Fluidity, tremendous Lateral Agility, and absolutely mesmerizing Verticity ~ Turn + Burn Acuity, to you Earthlings ~ as a Pass Defender.

But all that pales in comparison to the lofty grades he gets for exceptional Diagnostic Acuity and stunning Processing Speed: Young Mister David projects, in my book, as a Master of the Game.

He could play anywhere and contribute consistently and well, but if one were to harness his full potential, it would seem that Will Flanker ~ OutSide LineBacker, Earthlings!! ~ preferably in a Cover 2, would be his best bet.

This guy has "How the hell did such a short, small, slow guy forge such an amazing career??" written all over'm.

...If he doesn't get killed in an head on collision. Steal!!

Bobby Wagner ~ 6.0/240 ~ 2nd-3rd ~ 3rd

Starter!! Bobby Wagner brings impressive Verticity to the table in Pass Defense, and has enough Core Strength and Athleticism to make a few plays in Run Defense and in the Pass Rush. Fair Value!!

Ronnell Lewis ~ 6.2/252 ~ 2nd-3rd ~ 2nd-3rd

Starter!! Ronnell Lewis commands an exceptional Burst off the Snap and an outstanding Motor.

His Core Strength isn't anything special, nor is his Athleticism, but there's enough there, combined with his Processing Speed, his Launch Velocity, and his sheer Passion for the Game, to make me think he'll become a solid starter at the next level. Fair Value!!

Sean Spence ~ 5.11/231 ~ 2nd-3rd ~ 3rd

Starter!! Sean Spence commands tremendous Veriticity in Pass Defense, turning and burning with great acuity, but his Core Strength leaves much to be desired, leaving him vulnerable as a Run Defender.

He does boast exceptional Range, however, and should be a very good fit in a Tampa 2. Fair Value!!

 

[Off The Grid]

Bruce Irvin ~ 6.3/245 ~ 2nd-3rd ~ 1st

Beast!! Bruce Irvin is, for my money, the most dangerous Pass Rusher in the entire 2012 Draft Class.

He commands frighteningly explosive Launch Velocity.

His Core Strength is only average, but he commands phenomenal Fluidity, Torsion, and Lateral Agility.

He's extremely new to the job, and he shows it, but he already exhibits tremendous Instincts and Diagnostic Acuity, which can only get better as he evolves.

His resume is very thin on Run Defense and Pass Defense. While his mesmerizing natural skills suggest that he could become awfully good at both, growing pains will abound in the early going.

His Past is scary as Hell, bad enough that he'll be off many Boards...But he's scraped and clawed his way out'f the darkness, and he now gets well deserved accolades for his Focus and Passion.

He was over hyped coming into his Senior year, but with his stats having returned to Earth, his Market Value has slid rather emphatically: He's actually looking at the 2nd or 3rd Round, at this point. If he remains that range, he'll be one of the great Steals of the Draft!!

Super Sleeper Beast!!

Josh Kaddu ~ 6.3/238 ~ 3rd ~ 6th-7th

Reserve!! Josh Kaddu brings exceptional Burst to the table, and excellent Speed, but his Core Strength isn't very good, and his Diagnostic Acuity and Processing Speed are pretty bad. I see him as more of a Reserve at the next level. OverRated!!

Nigel Bradham ~ 6.2/242 ~ 3rd ~ 6th-7th

Reserve!! Nigel Bradham brings some Speed to the table, but I'm concerned that his lack of Fluidity, combined with deficient Processing Speed when the bullets are flying, will hamstring him. OverRated!!

DeMario Davis ~ 6.2/234 ~ 3rd ~ 1st

Beast!! DeMario Davis brings it all: excellent Core Strength, explosive Burst off the Snap, tremendous Fluidity, and absolutely outstanding Processing Speed, Diagnostic Acuity, and Instincts, to say nothing of a relentless Motor!!

He's a force in Run Defense, an effective Pass Rusher, and he commands impressive Verticity when he needs to Turn + Burn in Pass Defense.

He's ascended all the way from UFA to 3rd Rounder, to this point, but even now he's a tremendous bargain at that price, and still under the Radar!! Sleeper!!

Travis Lewis ~ 6.1/245 ~ 5th-6th ~ 2nd-3rd

Starter!! Travis Lewis is a Smart, Savvy player who reads the field well, anticipates plays, and commands enough Lateral Agility to consistently get there.

He doesn't boast enough Core Strength and Fluidity to avoid getting washed out of some plays, but he gets off a good Burst, and he's persistently around the ball.

He commands exceptional Verticity in Pass Defense, turning and burning quickly with great consistency.

His Day 3 Market Value is a bit of a mystery to me. He bowed out of the Combine, but this seems like an over reaction...and a great Opportunity, if true.

He's been on the radar far too long to be a "Sleeper", but if he really lasts to Day 3, he will be a clear Steal!!

Miles Burris ~ 6.2/245 ~ UFA ~ 5th-7th

Role Player!! Miles Burris doesn't boast much Fluidity, but he commands terrific Core Strength, explosive Burst off the Snap, remarkable Dexterity, exceptional Instincts and Savvy, and a ferocious Motor.

He's all heart, and he'll make plays for you, both in Run Defense and in the Pass Rush.

He doesn't really have the Veriticity you want in Pass Defense, but his Processing Speed and Burst are outstanding, and make up for a lot.

I may actually be selling the kid short. But he's certainly work a Pick, and will make far more plays than most expect of'm, I think. Deal!!

Zach Nash ~ 6.2/252 ~ UFA ~ 3rd-4th

Potential Starter!! Zach Nash is extremely raw, but he commands a truly intriguing fusion of Core Strength, Burst, Fluidity, and ~ most impressive of all, to these eyes ~ Diagnostic Acuity and Processing Speed.

Nash is yet another tremendous Gem unearthed by the remarkable Wes Bunting of National FootBall Post!!

He has definite starter potential, this UFA. Sleeper!!

 

[Off The Grid]

My Short List

In case anyone's wondering: I find "LineBacker" to be a term that both shows a distinct lack of appreciation for the importance of MidFielders ~ I include both Flankers and ( Inner) MidFielders in that general term ~ and which is also ridiculously clunky...and that's before adding "OutSide" or "InSide" to it!! So it must go...

With Flankers, I'm looking in at two main aspects of their Games:

1 ~ Run Defense
2 ~ Pass Rush

Pass Defense is of some concern, but is dwarfed by the first two, save in Tampa 2 Prospects, where Pass Defense is in fact more important than Pass Rush at this position. I hope you enjoy!!

Mel Ingram ~ 6.1/264 ~ 1st ~ 1st

Beast!! Mel Ingram is a ferocious Pass Rusher who commands a terrifying fusion of Core Strength, Fluidity, Torsion, Dexterity, and Lateral Agility.

His overall Game is still a bit raw, but his Repertoire of Pass Rush Moves and his Savvy are very impressive.

He's a stout Run Defender as well, all those attributes serving him considerably well in shedding Blockers.

Coming out as a Tackle, he'll have very little experience in Pass Defense, but that is of little import.

Ingram's Market Value is more'n fully warranted. Deal!!

Courtney Upshaw ~ 6.2/273 ~ 1st ~ 1st

Beast!! Courtney Upshaw commands a really sweet fusion of outstanding Core Strength, combined with remarkable Torsion ~ explosion in tight areas ~ and Lateral Agility, making him a Force in the Pass Rush.

He's a Beast against the Run, combining tremendous Processing Speed with Core Power and Burst to make a lot of plays and consistently complete them.

He looks like a mid to late 1st. Fair Value!!

Shea McClellin ~ 6.3/260 ~ 2nd ~ 1st

Beast!! Shea McClellin commands a phenomenal fusion of Core Strength, Explosion, Processing Speed, amazing Passion and Worth Ethic, and Savvy!!

He boasts an impressive Pass Rushing Repertoire, and is a Beast in the Run Game, as well.

He's even showing rapidly developing Verticity, despite being new to the concept of Pass Defending.

It is rare to see such a combination of Power, Strength, Athleticism in all directions, together with such impressive Intelligence and relentless Work Ethic!!

Shea McLellin has risen all the way from UFA land to the Second Round ~ more's the pity!! ~ and even a further ascension all the way to the first Round would be fully warranted, in my view. Steal!!

Bruce Irvin ~ 6.3/245 ~ 2nd-3rd ~ 1st

Beast!! Bruce Irvin is, for my money, the most dangerous Pass Rusher in the entire 2012 Draft Class.

He commands frighteningly explosive Launch Velocity.

His Core Strength is only average, but he commands phenomenal Fluidity, Torsion, and Lateral Agility.

He's extremely new to the job, and he shows it, but he already exhibits tremendous Instincts and Diagnostic Acuity, which can only get better as he evolves.

His resume is very thin on Run Defense and Pass Defense. While his mesmerizing natural skills suggest that he could become awfully good at both, growing pains will abound in the early going.

His Past is scary as Hell, bad enough that he'll be off many Boards...But he's scraped and clawed his way out'f the darkness, and he now gets well deserved accolades for his Focus and Passion.

He was over hyped coming into his Senior year, but with his stats having returned to Earth, his Market Value has slid rather emphatically: He's actually looking at the 2nd or 3rd Round, at this point. If he remains that range, he'll be one of the great Steals of the Draft!!

Super Sleeper Beast!!

Zach Nash ~ 6.2/252 ~ UFA ~ 3rd-4th

Potential Starter!! Zach Nash is extremely raw, but he commands a truly intriguing fusion of Core Strength, Burst, Fluidity, and ~ most impressive of all, to these eyes ~ Diagnostic Acuity and Processing Speed.

Nash is yet another tremendous Gem unearthed by the remarkable Wes Bunting of National FootBall Post!!

He has definite starter potential, this UFA. Sleeper!!

Notes

1 ~ I'd love to see us just go Whole Hog to the "43", because some of my favorite Flankers ~ LaVonte David, Demario Davis, and Bruce Irvin ~ are guys I expect to have MASSIVE Impacts.

2 ~ I've included Bruce Irvin on this list, anyway, because I believe him to be ~ bar none ~ THE most dangerous Pass Rushing Threat in this entire Draft Class...And because he is a DONKEY, he now faces Day 3 HELL...But BECAUSE he now faces Day 3 Hell, he now presents an EPIC Opportunity. Risky?? HELL, yeah. But IF he works out, we get a potential 10 Sack Sub Pack Attack for the price of a 4th or 5th ROUNDER, baby!! DEAL!!

3 ~ Shea McClellin is my baby, of course, and I've been pounding the table on this kid since back in OCTOBER, when he looked like a 7th Rounder!! Hah!! As I feared and explicitly predicted, his Market Value HAS skyrocketed EXACTLY as Brooks Reed's did, last year, but ~ unlike Reed's ~ his ascension is, in my view, fully warranted.

4 ~ Zach Nash intrigues the hell out of me, as well!! I'd LOVE to pull that kid in here and take a look!! He could definitely be a Swing Man, too, making time at Flanker and MidFielder...

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Ahem. Ultimate sleeper this year? Louis Nzegwu*|*Wisconsin,*DE*:*2012 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile

Check out those numbers.

Some video to back it up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF0QLoOtLlg

Low production, but seems to have the tools to get the job done. I'd love to pick him with our last pick and see what he can do.

 

[manxman2601]

Ahem. Ultimate sleeper this year? Louis Nzegwu*|*Wisconsin,*DE*:*2012 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile

Check out those numbers.

Some video to back it up: Louis Nzegwu Highlight - YouTube

Low production, but seems to have the tools to get the job done. I'd love to pick him with our last pick and see what he can do.

OK. Wow! What's the catch? Looks like a perfect OLB too me from that, admittedly highlight video. Splits double teams, pursues well from the backside, range to the sideline, tackles well, looks smooth dropping in to coverage. Might have to dust off some Wisconsin games and give them a watch. Nice find.