Does Parcells belong in the Pats HOF?

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

It is not fair for those too young to know what Antwine had done for this team,so of course anyone under 40 will not have any idea of his play other than seeing it on some NFL classic video and will not put him on top of the list.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Oh - so you actually think that specific member of the Patriots Selection Committee is actually unaware of when the Boston Patriots/New England Patriots were formed? Shall we start a new thread to discuss the definition of "building" and "rebuilding'? (I noticed you've decided to change the words of that selection committee member to "founded")

Give me a break.

Let's make this simple.

Answer these yes or no questions:

1. Were the New England Patriots considered a credible, respected organization, not in danger of moving to St. Louis at the time that Parcells and Bledsoe arrived?


2. Were the New England Patriots considered a credible, respected organization, not in danger of moving to St. Louis at the time that Tom Brady arrived?

Do some research, get back to us with your answers, and then you might begin to understand some of the reasons why Mike Reiss, Chris Price, Mark Farinella and other members of the New England Hall of Fame Committee have nominated both Parcells and Bledsoe.

Funny how you tell other people to do research. I've done some for you.

Jim Donaldson: Kraft’s crafty move gave the Patriots a new lease on life in Foxboro. | New England Patriots | projo.com | The Providence Journal

He took the first step in 1985, when, at a cost of $1 million, he took a 10-year option on the land surrounding the stadium.


Remington razor magnate Victor Kiam had purchased the Patriots from Sullivan in 1988. With the stadium also up for sale, Kiam made a low bid for it because, after all, who would want the stadium if they didn’t own the team?

Bob Kraft, that’s who.

“My banker again thought I was nuts, that I was buying a white elephant, that the team would never play there,” Kraft said. “But the bankruptcy judge reaffirmed our lease on the stadium through 2001, which turned out to be the year we won our first Super Bowl.”


That lease in Kraft’s pocket was also his ace in the hole in his high-stakes gamble to buy the Patriots. According to the terms of the lease, if the Pats were going to play football, it would have to be in Foxboro. Breaking the lease would result in the owner of the team paying treble damages to the owner of the stadium.

“The reason I bought the stadium,” Kraft said, “was to get into position to own the team.”








Kraft had planned to buy the team long before Bledsoe and Parcells came along. The team was never in danger of moving unless Kraft allowed it to happen, which of course he didn't.

Kraft is the reason they didn't move.

Stability in ownership helped turn the team around from the Kiam, Orthwein years.

The credit you want to heap upon Parcells and Bledsoe for keeping the team in NE should be given to Bob Kraft and Bob Kraft only.

 

[RayClay]

Oh - so you actually think that specific member of the Patriots Selection Committee is actually unaware of when the Boston Patriots/New England Patriots were formed? Shall we start a new thread to discuss the definition of "building" and "rebuilding'? (I noticed you've decided to change the words of that selection committee member to "founded")

Give me a break.

Let's make this simple.

Answer these yes or no questions:

1. Were the New England Patriots considered a credible, respected organization, not in danger of moving to St. Louis at the time that Parcells and Bledsoe arrived?

2. Were the New England Patriots considered a credible, respected organization, not in danger of moving to St. Louis at the time that Tom Brady arrived?

Do some research, get back to us with your answers, and then you might begin to understand some of the reasons why Mike Reiss, Chris Price, Mark Farinella and other members of the New England Hall of Fame Committee have nominated both Parcells and Bledsoe.

Again, I know about the 25% of Patriots history that you do. Why keep making it obvious that you are joyfully ignorant of the other 75%?

Do you know who Will McDonough was? he was on TV too, so maybe you do.

In a recent article Will McDonough wrote, “Billy Sullivan founded the Patriots, but the guy who saved them was Holovak. It was his personality, and the love his players had for him, that kept the team afloat in its first decade of existence. The team won consistently with the lowest payroll in the league and the worst practice conditions imaginable.” Had the Patriots collapsed, the credibility of the AFL as a major league would have been called into question.

http://www.profootballresearchers.org/Coffin_Corner/21-05-818.pdf

So, no Patriots, no AFL. You would have been reduced to watching Giants leftovers on TV like we were in the past.

Of course football in New England was always a breeze before Parcells came in, just look at the history of success!

Boston Bulldogs (AFL), 1926
Boston Redskins (NFL), 1933-36
Boston Shamrocks (AFL), 1936-37
Boston Bears (AFL), 1940
Boston Yanks (NFL), 1944-48

 

[RayClay]

It is not fair for those too young to know what Antwine had done for this team,so of course anyone under 40 will not have any idea of his play other than seeing it on some NFL classic video and will not put him on top of the list.

They could see him on the plaque in the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

 

[Bostonian1962]

Parcells, Bledsoe and Houston Antwine are up this season.

I vote NO.

I realize that he changed the direction of the franchise, but he also bailed on the team and was a distraction at the Super Bowl. He tried screwing NE out of compensation by naming himself a consultant for the Jets. There is also the Curtis Martin issue.

Futhermore, Parcells quit because he didnt want Terry Glenn. He wanted his groceries and it was rumored that Parcells wanted to select DE - Duane Clemons who was nothing special at all.

Tough Hall for Drew Bledsoe, Bill Parcells - BostonHerald.com

I absolutely agree with you and vote a capital letter NO! He effed the fans, and our experience in the '96 Super Bowl. It was all about him, and his hurt feelings. It sucked, and he sucked for doing that to us. Now, were are considering him for Patriots Hall of Fame? Short memories. Bledsoe deserves winning this hands down.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Again, I know about the 25% of Patriots history that you do. Why keep making it obvious that you are joyfully ignorant of the other 75%?

So, you are REALLY faulting that Selection Committee member for not going back to the Boston Bulldogs of 1926 in his reference to the rebuilding project of Parcells, Bledsoe, and then Kraft????

Please tell me you're joking. (Or if you're just trying to impress us with your ability to Google - then well done!)

Then please answer the yes or no questions - which is actually the point that the Selection Committee member was making.

1. Were the New England Patriots considered a credible, respected organization, not in danger of moving to St. Louis at the time that Parcells and Bledsoe arrived?

2. Were the New England Patriots considered a credible, respected organization, not in danger of moving to St. Louis at the time that Tom Brady arrived?

My guess is that you'll again refuse to address the issues cited by the Selection Committee, and instead attempt to impress us in your ability to cut and paste Patriots history.

 

[RayClay]

So, you are REALLY faulting that Selection Committee member for not going back to the Boston Bulldogs of 1926 in his reference to the rebuilding project of Parcells, Bledsoe, and then Kraft????

Please tell me you're joking. (Or if you're just trying to impress us with your ability to Google - then well done!)

Then please answer the yes or no questions - which is actually the point that the Selection Committee member was making.

1. Were the New England Patriots considered a credible, respected organization, not in danger of moving to St. Louis at the time that Parcells and Bledsoe arrived?

2. Were the New England Patriots considered a credible, respected organization, not in danger of moving to St. Louis at the time that Tom Brady arrived?

My guess is that you'll again refuse to address the issues cited by the Selection Committee, and instead attempt to impress us in your ability to cut and paste Patriots history.

........................

“It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.”

 

[goheels22002]

Parcells quit on the New England Patriots at precisely the moment that the team and fans needed him to focus on success. No. He should not be in the Patriots' HOF.

 

[goheels22002]

I haven't read the 2,683,987 posts before this one. I dont have to. This is a no stinkin brainer. The Tuna most certainly belongs. Its not even up for discussion. Never mind what he did to turn the team around. The players he drafted and got here were pivitol in our first SB win. He also inadvertantly brought us BB.

The guy is without a doubt the second best coach to ever coach this franchise. He also would not have left if Kraft had not butt his nose in on the draft. This feud and split resulted in Kraft backing out and not being another Jones from the Cowboys. It taught Krafty the most valuable of lessons, which allowed BB to have the control he needed to get us all those championships...

First ballot no brainer.

Wow. Bill Parcells did a tremendous amount of samage to this franchise by the way he left and by essentially taking credit for what a tremendous core staff and core team he had in Foxboro. His dis-loyalty to the owner is legendary and despicable. On top of that he went on to be a mediocrity and failure in Dallas. 2nd best? Not even close. Raymond Berry is the clear #2 to Bill Belichick.

 

[JoeSixPat]

........................

Can't answer?

Or won't?

C'mon - you're the guy who wants to show us that you're much more of an expert about the Boston Bulldogs than the members of the Selection Committee (while your at it can you inform us how that relates to the rebuilding job that Parcells and Bledsoe initiated in 1993?)

Surely you can handle two simple yes or no questions.

Or perhaps you're taking Twain's advice, refusing to open your open your mouth to "remove all doubt"?

Don't worry - I don't think anyone has any doubt at this point.

 

[RayClay]

Can't answer?

Or won't?

C'mon - you're the guy who wants to show us that you're much more of an expert about the Boston Bulldogs than the members of the Selection Committee (while your at it can you inform us how that relates to the rebuilding job that Parcells and Bledsoe initiated in 1993?)

Surely you can handle two simple yes or no questions.

Or perhaps you're taking Twain's advice, refusing to open your open your mouth to "remove all doubt"?

Don't worry - I don't think anyone has any doubt at this point.

Kraft started buying the land in 1985, had already bought the stadium by 1988, yet

Parcells becoming coach in 1993 is why Kraft bought the team

And that is your entire argument. it's based on either time travel or fortune telling.


Parcells saved the team!

You're saying no other coach of the Patriots turned around the team, yet at least three did and they all have better records than him

The one who possibly also saved the AFL, which might not have survived the implosion of the franchise also had the best record

and, unlike two of them didn't publicly look for another job while the team was in contention for the ultimate game.

You're argument is narrow, due to your admitted ignorance of team history, and even given the narrow scope of your knowledge is ridiculous given the huge investment Kraft had made in the team years before Parcells was hired or considered.

 

[JoeSixPat]

........................

Can't handle a simple "yes" or "no" question huh?

Look - you're the one who wanted to focus on the Selection Committee member's comparison of the scope of the rebuilding project faced by Parcells and Bledose to the one faced by Brady.

It's common sense to most of us that the state of the organization at the end of 1992 was in a much worse state than it was at the start of 2001.

While you've impressed us all with your ability to Google information about the Boston Bulldogs, it would be very refreshing to see you answer a very simple question.

I think we all know why you won't answer it though - so let's just leave it that you refuse to - what was the quote you used? "... open your mouth and remove all doubt"

THIS is a prime example of what the Selection Committee member termed "negative comments by short-sighted fans that either weren't old enough or intelligent enough to understand the state of the franchise when both arrived here."

 

[RayClay]

Can't handle a simple "yes" or "no" question huh?

Look - you're the one who wanted to focus on the Selection Committee member's comparison of the scope of the rebuilding project faced by Parcells and Bledose to the one faced by Brady.

It's common sense to most of us that the state of the organization at the end of 1992 was in a much worse state than it was at the start of 2001.

While you've impressed us all with your ability to Google information about the Boston Bulldogs, it would be very refreshing to see you answer a very simple question.

I think we all know why you won't answer it though - so let's just leave it that you refuse to - what was the quote you used? "... open your mouth and remove all doubt"

THIS is a prime example of what the Selection Committee member termed "negative comments by short-sighted fans that either weren't old enough or intelligent enough to understand the state of the franchise when both arrived here."

Ha ha. That was only 18 years ago. that is the stupidest statement I've ever heard.

loLolol

I have a new theory based on wearing blinders, or being such a gnoob fan you think 18 years ago is ancient history.

Since, well before Parcells was even considered, Kraft twice put down money for land and a stadium and he was a fan...

I'm going to say he bought the team based on their unprecedented road playoff run, led by Hall of Famer, coach Ray Berry.

At that point Kraft put down money to buy.

Indisputable evidence that Ray Berry was the pivotal figure in the entire history of the Patriots (18 or 50 years, depending).

You know, I bet short sighted fans are too young to remember the 2-14 season of Ron Erhardt *Joesix sez who?* or the player revolt under Ron Meyer.

So every fan here is less thsn 24 years old? I guess that's possible. I was about six when I started following the Patriots.

Please Post this great writer who thinks anyone 24 years old is a wizened vet.

Please don't stop Joe, this is about the funniest thread I've ever seen. So, any other old codgers remember Bill Parcells?

 

[JoeSixPat]

Ha ha. That was only 18 years ago. that is the stupidest statement I've ever heard.

Still can't answer a simple yes or no question.

Your "lol"s are beginning to frighten me however as I'm getting the feeling your blood pressure's going through the roof.

If you think that Selection Committee member is so off base about your intelligence, why don't you prove it, and answer the question about the state of the franchise at the time of Parcells/Bledsoe compared to the the time of Brady.

You're the one who is obsessed with that statement by the Selection Committee member - not me.

At least give him credit for not hiding behind a nom-de-plume, and publicly and proudly standing behind his selection of Parcells (as well as Bledsoe).

 

[RayClay]

Still can't answer a simple yes or no question.

Your "lol"s are beginning to frighten me however as I'm getting the feeling your blood pressure's going through the roof.

If you think that Selection Committee member is so off base about your intelligence, why don't you prove it, and answer the question about the state of the franchise at the time of Parcells/Bledsoe compared to the the time of Brady.

You're the one who is obsessed with that statement by the Selection Committee member - not me.

At least give him credit for not hiding behind a nom-de-plume, and publicly and proudly standing behind his selection of Parcells (as well as Bledsoe).

I just realized your rant includes accusing me of being too young to remember before Parcells. Talk about a rambling argument.

THIS is a prime example of what the Selection Committee member termed "negative comments by short-sighted fans that either weren't old enough or intelligent enough to understand the state of the franchise when both arrived here."

Because, as every true fan like yourself knows, the Patriots had been a model of affluence and stability through their whole history, except the early nineties.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I just realized your rant includes accusing me of being too young to remember before Parcells. Talk about a rambling argument.

Reading comprehension must be failing you in your old age...

That was the Selection Committee member's statement:

But those of us on the nominating committee apparently threw a curve ball at the voters when our secret ballot made Bledsoe's former coach, Bill Parcells, one of the finalists along with 1960s defensive end Houston Antwine. In recent days, the presence of both Bledsoe and Parcells on the ballot has dredged up a lot of negative comments by short-sighted fans that either weren't old enough or intelligent enough to understand the state of the franchise when both arrived here.

The choice is yours: too young to remember or not intelligent enough to understand the state of the franchise when Parcells/Bledsoe arrived here.

I suppose he'd accept "too old/dementia" as well...

Speaking of which, just a friendly reminder that you still haven't answered the simple yes or no question.

 

[RayClay]

Do you think the Erhardt era was more stable? How about Clive Rush/Mazur? Fairbanks just needed to turn the key there, they were in great shape.

I'd really like your opinion of those eras for some perspective.

 

[RayClay]

1. Were the New England Patriots considered a credible, respected organization, not in danger of moving to St. Louis at the time that Parcells and Bledsoe arrived?

The answer is no, the Patriots were never considered a credible respected organization.

The Patriots were always in danger of being moved from day one.

When Parcells left, they were again a joke, this time mostly because of him and the chaos he left including Grier and gnoob owner Kraft. We weren't a laughinstock when our head coach lost focus looking for work before the crucial game(s)? *Just pretend you know about the other one*

I'd say they were in better shape after Berry's SB than after Parcells, because Sullivan got rid of the team.

When Belichick started as coach, they were considered the worst run team in football and least likely to win a championship.

By Joel Buchsbaum, Contributing editor
As published in print March 5, 2001

The question posed to NFL insiders was: Which team had the least chance of making the playoffs or going to the Super Bowl in the next five years? The Patriots were a unanimous choice, but several other teams will have more than their share of obstacles to overcome as well.

Almost all the scouts we spoke to gave the following reasons for picking the Patriots.

The Patriots are in salary-cap hell because they spent money unwisely due to their inability to evaluate their own talent.

They got almost nothing out of the drafts during the Pete Carroll era, although in many of those years they had two first-round picks. One year, they even had double picks in all the higher rounds of the draft.

In this day and age when everyone wants a mobile quarterback who can make plays with his feet, buy time and improvise, Patriots QB Drew Bledsoe gets F’s in all these areas. To compound matters, he was the highest-paid player in the league in 2000.

At the other offensive skill positions, the Patriots have just one player who is of starting quality — WR Terry Glenn.

On the offensive line, the only lineman whom scouts like is C Damien Woody, and many say he is a superior talent who is always overweight and will not push himself hard enough. "After all this time in the league, he still can’t even make the shotgun snap," said one scout.

On defense, the only upper-echelon player the Pats can count on is SS Lawyer Milloy, and the defensive backfield is a disaster area aside from him.

The Boston media is one of the most negative in the nation, and when they have a bad team to cover, they will blame everyone, especially the coaches and management team. In the past, Bill Belichick had a hard time coping with a very negative press that treated him unfairly, and it remains to be seen if he has reached the point where he can overcome the negative assault he will be hit with. It also remains to be seen how much time owner Robert Kraft will give the coach once the vultures start swooping around.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

For the love of God,can we lock this thread before it hits platinum numbers?

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

So, you are REALLY faulting that Selection Committee member for not going back to the Boston Bulldogs of 1926 in his reference to the rebuilding project of Parcells, Bledsoe, and then Kraft????

Please tell me you're joking. (Or if you're just trying to impress us with your ability to Google - then well done!)

Then please answer the yes or no questions - which is actually the point that the Selection Committee member was making.

1. Were the New England Patriots considered a credible, respected organization, not in danger of moving to St. Louis at the time that Parcells and Bledsoe arrived?

2. Were the New England Patriots considered a credible, respected organization, not in danger of moving to St. Louis at the time that Tom Brady arrived?

My guess is that you'll again refuse to address the issues cited by the Selection Committee, and instead attempt to impress us in your ability to cut and paste Patriots history.

They were never in danger of moving unless Bob Kraft allowed it to happen. Which he didn't.