Does Parcells belong in the Pats HOF?

[Armchair Quarterback]

Wow - brilliant.

And so, seeing as you pretty much equate THAT with Kraft's own story of how he came to pull the trigger to own the team

.... the unlikely "worst to first" story

... and aside from the fact that you seem to be trashing on Patriots players because they're not in the NFL Hall of Fame...

...and Kraft's realization following the Parcells Fiasco, ultimately acknowledging that he SHOULDN'T meddle in football while bringing in a Parcells assistant named Belichick, and making the bold move to accept Parcell's advice and give Belichick free reign to draft and coach as he see fit...

Just seeing as we're equating that with Coach Fairbanks...

...what's your theory as to why the Hall of Fame Selection committee nominated him?

Yeah brilliant, and this is coming from the guy whose groundbreaking theory is well he was nominated to be voted on so that means he must be worthy of the actual award.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Wow - brilliant.

And so, seeing as you pretty much equate THAT with Kraft's own story of how he came to pull the trigger to own the team

.... the unlikely "worst to first" story

... and aside from the fact that you seem to be trashing on Patriots players because they're not in the NFL Hall of Fame...

...and Kraft's realization following the Parcells Fiasco, ultimately acknowledging that he SHOULDN'T meddle in football while bringing in a Parcells assistant named Belichick, and making the bold move to accept Parcell's advice and give Belichick free reign to draft and coach as he see fit...

Just seeing as we're equating that with Coach Fairbanks...

...what's your theory as to why the Hall of Fame Selection committee nominated him?

What the hell are you talking about?

 

[IllegalContact]

I think Parcells wanted Tony Brackens, not Clemons. Brackens was a good, not great player who had several years with double digit sacks. He did make the Pro Bowl once. Who knows if he would have been a better or worse player playing with the Pats under Belichick's 3-4?

I believe parcells wanted Daryl gardener

 

[Joker]

I believe I'll have a mixed drink...nah..check that..just give me the dyam bottle and a glass of ice..:bricks:

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

How about we give Kraft credit for hiring Belichick and Belichick credit for what the Patriots have done since 2000.

Among Kraft moves, coach gets top billing - Page 2 - Boston.com

Understand that by this time Kraft had received a thorough education in the whys and wherefores of being an owner in the NFL. He had inherited Parcells from James Busch Orthwein, and from the beginning, Parcells made it clear that Kraft’s primary function, in his eyes, was to sign the checks and get out of the way. And, by the way, contracts be damned.

He had a five-year contract,’’ Kraft says, “but all you’d hear was, ‘I coach year to year.’ ’’

That was very unsettling to a businessman such as Bob Kraft.

“I had to grow up as an owner,’’ he says. “I was a kid. It [i.e. dealing with Parcells] made me a man, very quickly.’’

Kraft spent a great deal of time talking to Belichick that year, and the more he did, the more impressed he became. The native intelligence and the devotion to the game were very obvious.

“I remember a conversation we had about [linebacker] Chris Slade,’’ recalls Kraft. “He knew everything about him. He pulled out a book with information.’’

Kraft also was blown away by Belichick’s awareness of the entire NFL. Back in 2000, Kraft had marveled, “Every recommendation he had made in ’96 was an excellent recommendation.’’

Kraft even thought about hiring Belichick to succeed Parcells, but he admits he simply chickened out. He had been so scarred by Parcells that he was afraid to hire someone with a Parcells connection. He reached out for the anti-Parcells instead, and by the end of the 1999 season, he knew Mr. Nice Guy Pete Carroll had to go. The team was clearly regressing.

“Pete was a great guy,’’ Kraft acknowledges. “But I know how to run a business, and by then I knew Bill Belichick was the right guy for me.’’

It wasn’t one thing; it was everything. The NFL world was changing, and new skills were needed for a coach to succeed.

“Bill Parcells was not transitioning well into the salary-cap era,’’ Kraft maintains.

He felt that Wesleyan economics major Belichick would not have that problem.

 

[Triumph]

I believe that, even as a youth, he willed the team to succeed through the sixties, knowing his fate was to be a small, but essential part of the perfect dynasty.

From his WIKI


Yes, in a foreshadowing of future fullfillment of the prophecy, Duane adopted the name "Bill". Not Harry or Tom, but Bill.

Coincidence that he adopted the name of the future savior for no good reason? I think not!
Was there really "another boy named Bill?"

Hilarious

Well done Sir.

 

[Triumph]

Here are the people in the NEP HOF

Hall of Fame | The Hall at Patriot Place

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I believe I'll have a mixed drink...nah..check that..just give me the dyam bottle and a glass of ice..:bricks:

Set 'em up twice bartender and call me a taxi at closing time.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Yeah brilliant, and this is coming from the guy whose groundbreaking theory is well he was nominated to be voted on so that means he must be worthy of the actual award.

Again, you've got an answer for everything...

Just the wrong one.

That's not a theory - nor is it mine.

That's the statement made by the New England Patriots themselves regarding the Selection Committee's mission to identify three former Patriots players or head coaches each year who they feel are most "deserving of Hall of Fame induction."

"Deserving of Induction" and actually being inducted are two different things, as fan votes have decided the sole inductee since 2007.

Houston Antwine has been deemed "deserving of induction in the Patriots Hall of Fame" for the third time. The fact that he's deserving doesn't mean he's going to get in however because he needs to hope that potentially ignorant fans have some understanding of the role he played in his era.

So no - not a theory. And if you have a problem with the selection committee deeming Bledsoe, Antwine or Parcells "deserving of induction" you need to take your argument to Bob Kraft and the New England Patriots - not me.

Nice try though.

 

[JoeSixPat]

What the hell are you talking about?

You've now raised the wonderfully bizarre concept that the number of Hall of Fame Players drafted by a coach needs to be a criteria for enshrinement in the Patriots Hall of Fame.

Fairbanks took over a team that had gone 19-51 the previous five years, turned around the team with a 46-39 record, drafted 2 Hall of Famers and left under less than ideal circumstances.

Parcells took over a team that had gone 14-50 the previous four years, turned the team around with a 32-32 record, drafted several dynasty players, not sure if any will make the Hall of Fame and left under less than ideal circumstances.

While that's an inventive way to make a warped contention that the New England Patriots Hall of Fame selection committee should nominate Chuck Fairbanks, unfortunately you've also insulted some very good Patriots players who aren't in the NFL Hall of Fame who nonetheless contributed to Super Bowl appearances and championships.

Indeed you've also apparently ruled out Belichick's place in the Patriots Hall of Fame as he too currently lacks any draftees in the Hall of Fame.

Again, you guys have got an answer for everything... just very very bad ones.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

The Parcells thing is....

Do we win SB titles without the F.O. drafting from the Parcells era led by Parcells?....without BP we likely do not have McGinest,Brown,Law,Milloy on the roster heading into 2000 where BB had the TOOLS to work with and show that he was a better coach than Parcells ever was but without Parcells 'stocking the shelves' we very well might not have 3 SB rings ..if any.

No McGinest means IIRC that game in Indy where McGinest made crucial plays at the end to win the game at Indy and IIRC that made a difference to playing in a dome in the playoffs and in the icy weather of Foxboro which definately could have made a difference......not to forget the tons of big plays Wilie Mac accomplished in his years here.

Do we win without Troy Brown in the 2001 playoffs at Pitt?...Troy came up huge in that game,without him it might have been a different outcome (despite Brown getting cut and re-signed)

How about Bruschi who made BIG plays during all those glory years and a guy who was considered too small to play in the NFL.

Little things like this people ignore.

Not to mention if Parcells is not coach here,Belichick probably would not have fallen off that tree into NE...I believe wherever Parcells took the reigns over in 1993 was where Belichick would have ended up.

If this isnt enough to at least CONSIDER HIM I don't know what is....The bottom line is the PARCELLS SET THE FOUNDATION FOR YEARS AHEAD AND 3 SUPER BOWL TITLES by his methods in the draft and bringing in talent both on the roster and F.O.

......Belichick added his masterful coaching to seal it all up and set the title run and not to mention drafting a guy named Brady and adding Pioli to the mix.

Belichick made this team a dynasty with the way he took over the club and taught guys how to win who didn't get IT under Parcells and Carroll,but by no means did he start from scratch....anyone who says he did is a fool.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

You've now raised the wonderfully bizarre concept that the number of Hall of Fame Players drafted by a coach needs to be a criteria for enshrinement in the Patriots Hall of Fame.



While that's an inventive way to make a warped contention that the New England Patriots Hall of Fame selection committee should nominate Chuck Fairbanks, unfortunately you've also insulted some very good Patriots players who aren't in the NFL Hall of Fame who nonetheless contributed to Super Bowl appearances and championships.

Indeed you've also apparently ruled out Belichick's place in the Patriots Hall of Fame as he too currently lacks any draftees in the Hall of Fame.

Again, you guys have got an answer for everything... just very very bad ones.

So saying I'm not sure if some of the players on the dynasty years teams will make it to the Pro Football HOF is insulting them? A little oversensitive? The comparison to Fairbanks is to point out that what Parcells did has been done before. Fairbanks took over a team on par with the 1989-1992 Patriots, had a better record than Parcells and not only that, he happened to draft 2 of the 4 Patriot Pro FootbalL HOF 's. The Patiots were 2-14 in 1981, Raymond Berry had them in the SB by 1985. The history of the Patriots did not begin in 1993.

Most of your arguments are not based on Parcells own merits, you need to attach things like Kraft bought the team because of Parcells and somehow give credit to Parcells for what happened from 2000 forward to make his case, both of which have little or no truth to them.

 

[JoeSixPat]

So saying I'm not sure if some of the players on the dynasty years teams will make it to the Pro Football HOF is insulting them? A little oversensitive? The comparison to Fairbanks is to point out that what Parcells did has been done before. Fairbanks took over a team on par with the 1989-1992 Patriots, had a better record than Parcells and not only that, he happened to draft 2 of the 4 Patriot Pro FootbalL HOF 's. The Patiots were 2-14 in 1981, Raymond Berry had them in the SB by 1985. The history of the Patriots did not begin in 1993.

Most of your arguments are not based on Parcells own merits, you need to attach things like Kraft bought the team because of Parcells and somehow give credit to Parcells for what happened from 2000 forward to make his case, both of which have little or no truth to them.

The reference to Fairbanks and giving him Patriots Hall of Fame consideration because players drafted while he was coach have made the Hall of Fame and players under Parcells and Belichick have not - is really laughable.

It's a sad day when Patriots fans are attempting to make that to make that point - just as its a sad day when Patriots fans hold regular season W-L records in higher esteem than post-season accomplishments.

I'd at least have expected Patriots fans not to disrespect Bob Kraft and the enthusiastic credit he gives to Parcells for serving as the catalyst for his purchase of the team.

You guys all can assert that **** McPherson and some unnamed owner of the Patriots (though not necessarily the New England Patriots) would have had as much success as Kraft, Parcells and Belichick - but I think everyone knows how silly that sounds.

What can't be denied is that the Patriots own selection committee has deemed Parcells "deserving of induction in the Hall of Fame" - though some are very clearly in denial of that.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

The reference to Fairbanks and giving him Patriots Hall of Fame consideration because players drafted while he was coach have made the Hall of Fame and players under Parcells and Belichick have not - is really laughable.

It's a sad day when Patriots fans are attempting to make that to make that point - just as its a sad day when Patriots fans hold regular season W-L records in higher esteem than post-season accomplishments.

I'd at least have expected Patriots fans not to disrespect Bob Kraft and the enthusiastic credit he gives to Parcells for serving as the catalyst for his purchase of the team.

You guys all can assert that **** McPherson and some unnamed owner of the Patriots (though not necessarily the New England Patriots) would have had as much success as Kraft, Parcells and Belichick - but I think everyone knows how silly that sounds.

What can't be denied is that the Patriots own selection committee has deemed Parcells "deserving of induction in the Hall of Fame" - though some are very clearly in denial of that.

You don't seem to be able to have a discussion without childish accusations and exaggerations.

 

[RayClay]

"Deserving of Induction" and actually being inducted are two different things, as fan votes have decided the sole inductee since 2007.

Houston Antwine has been deemed "deserving of induction in the Patriots Hall of Fame" for the third time. The fact that he's deserving doesn't mean he's going to get in however because he needs to hope that potentially ignorant fans have some understanding of the role he played in his era.

Since you've stated the argument that these wise selectors know who is qualified better than us multiple times, why not address the selection of Ron Burton for the umpteenth time?

 

[RayClay]

You've now raised the wonderfully bizarre concept that the number of Hall of Fame Players drafted by a coach needs to be a criteria for enshrinement in the Patriots Hall of Fame.



While that's an inventive way to make a warped contention that the New England Patriots Hall of Fame selection committee should nominate Chuck Fairbanks, unfortunately you've also insulted some very good Patriots players who aren't in the NFL Hall of Fame who nonetheless contributed to Super Bowl appearances and championships.

Indeed you've also apparently ruled out Belichick's place in the Patriots Hall of Fame as he too currently lacks any draftees in the Hall of Fame.

Again, you guys have got an answer for everything... just very very bad ones.

I've got a novel concept. Why not induct players or coaches into the Hall of Fame based on their actual performance, regardless of when they played, or events that happened before or after they played?

 

[Garbanza]

I can understand why people think his nomination is valid. However, his departure was so despicable he should NEVER be voted into the Patriots Hall of Fame. Some wrongs are unforgiveable. I have been to the Hall twice and plan on going again and again....if Bottom Bellied schmuck Parcells is part of the HOF display - I plan on skipping over than scum-buckets "shrine."

 

[JoeSixPat]

I've got a novel concept. Why not induct players or coaches into the Hall of Fame based on their actual performance, regardless of when they played, or events that happened before or after they played?

Why do you allege that's not exactly what the Patriots Hall of Fame selection committee did in deeming Parcells "deserving of induction in the Patriots Hall of Fame" - noting his ability to guide the team from worst to first during the darkest days of the organization in which they were on the cusp of moving?

If they gave him extra credit for serving as a catalyst for Kraft's purchase of the team, or the contributions his draft picks made later, I'm fine with that.

I view all those things as positives. The rest of you seem to view that as a negative - or at least something completely irrelevant to his impact on the organization.

Either that or you all have a chip on your shoulders and aren't viewing his nomination objectively.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Since you've stated the argument that these wise selectors know who is qualified better than us multiple times, why not address the selection of Ron Burton for the umpteenth time?

The selection committee surely had their reasons...

I'm going to guess that some had to do with Burton's place in Patriots history as well as his accomplishments in the era in which he played.

But do you really want to start a new thread insulting the late Ron Burton though?

That's pretty low, but feel free - I'll weigh in with my theories as to why the Patriots selection committee deemed him deserving of induction.

 

[Garbanza]

The Parcells thing is....

Do we win SB titles without the F.O. drafting from the Parcells era led by Parcells?....without BP we likely do not have McGinest,Brown,Law,Milloy on the roster heading into 2000 where BB had the TOOLS to work with and show that he was a better coach than Parcells ever was but without Parcells 'stocking the shelves' we very well might not have 3 SB rings ..if any.

No McGinest means IIRC that game in Indy where McGinest made crucial plays at the end to win the game at Indy and IIRC that made a difference to playing in a dome in the playoffs and in the icy weather of Foxboro which definately could have made a difference......not to forget the tons of big plays Wilie Mac accomplished in his years here.

Do we win without Troy Brown in the 2001 playoffs at Pitt?...Troy came up huge in that game,without him it might have been a different outcome (despite Brown getting cut and re-signed)

How about Bruschi who made BIG plays during all those glory years and a guy who was considered too small to play in the NFL.

Little things like this people ignore.

Not to mention if Parcells is not coach here,Belichick probably would not have fallen off that tree into NE...I believe wherever Parcells took the reigns over in 1993 was where Belichick would have ended up.

If this isnt enough to at least CONSIDER HIM I don't know what is....The bottom line is the PARCELLS SET THE FOUNDATION FOR YEARS AHEAD AND 3 SUPER BOWL TITLES by his methods in the draft and bringing in talent both on the roster and F.O.

......Belichick added his masterful coaching to seal it all up and set the title run and not to mention drafting a guy named Brady and adding Pioli to the mix.

Belichick made this team a dynasty with the way he took over the club and taught guys how to win who didn't get IT under Parcells and Carroll,but by no means did he start from scratch....anyone who says he did is a fool.

If McGinest was not on the team the Pats would not have made that crucial stop against Indy. Hmmm...if the Pats still had Curtis Martin they may not have needed that crucial stop....and without Tom Brady, none of it would have happened. Shoot, without Walt Coleman none of this would have happened either.

You say that he set the standard for the future fo's. Bobby Grier was junk and the demise of Pete Carroll...but should Carroll get credit for developing Bruschi and McGinest? When did Pioli start picking Tuna's brain....while he was dating spawn of Tuna or after they were wed?

BB's defensive game plan for the 1990 Giants SB is on the Hall of Fame. BB and Co. won the SB against the Rams because of defense and Tom Brady. Not sure how Tuna gets credit for this unless its because he was smart enough to hire Belichick many moons ago so BB could understand how important Otis Smith would be? LOL!