Improve the pass defense quickly -- how?

[Fencer]

Other than Watt, it's hard to see how a DL choice would do too much for the pass defense, given that we already have Warren/Wilfork/Brace.

The difficulties in drafting a pass rusher have been much discussed. Yes, even Kerrigan.

Rightly, nobody is suggesting drafting an impact ILB.

Who exactly is going to help among DBs? Prince A? Sure, but he would be tough to get. Aaron Williams? Plausible, but he's raw. Could he be an upgrade at nickel CB as rookie?

Who/what am I missing?

 

[NEGoldenAge]

Other than Watt, it's hard to see how a DL choice would do too much for the pass defense, given that we already have Warren/Wilfork/Brace.

The difficulties in drafting a pass rusher have been much discussed. Yes, even Kerrigan.

Rightly, nobody is suggesting drafting an impact ILB.

Who exactly is going to help among DBs? Prince A? Sure, but he would be tough to get. Aaron Williams? Plausible, but he's raw. Could he be an upgrade at nickel CB as rookie?

Who/what am I missing?

The biggest problem with the pass defense last year was their innability to stop the run. Our ends were so decimated by injury that the Pats were often forced to play the best NT in the game at DE. The return of Warren, the aquisition of Stroud and a high pick on a run stuffing DE this year will go far in addressing that problem.

 

[IllegalContact]

its pretty simple......improve the pass rush.......the secondary made lots of plays when given the chance to do so.....things only broke down when the opposing QB had 10 seconds to throw the ball......

the pats don't need an ILB......the rotation of spikes,mayo,guyton is fine.....

the pats need OLB's who an get pressure on the QB

 

[Wilfork#75]

The biggest problem with the pass defense last year was their innability to stop the run. Our ends were so decimated by injury that the Pats were often forced to play the best NT in the game at DE. The return of Warren, the aquisition of Stroud and a high pick on a run stuffing DE this year will go far in addressing that problem.

I completely agree, improving the pass defence isn't about adding 1 or 2 pass rushers and looking for a quick fix, its about improving the defence as a whole, which will in turn improve our pass defence. It all starts by stopping the run. By stopping the run we are able to then be more creative and aggressive with our blitzing, and use more resources trying to stop the passing game. I think the best way to go about this is by adding an athletic, run stuffing RDE, and a strong edge setting OLB, that is also a threat to rush the passer. This not only improves the run defence, but allows our LB's more freedom to make plays. I don't believe a specialist pass rusher or adding another DB will have as much of an impact as a good all around DE and OLB.

 

[mgteich]

1) Add a veteran corner - Bodden should help.

2) Improve the DL's run defense - Stroud and Warren should help.

3) Add a front 7 or two player who will help some, but not quickly.

 

[zimmy]

I know this is a cliche but we just need to play better defense in general. It's the little things that will improve the pass defence. It's good communication in the secondary, it's gap control and being where your supposed to be. The secondary improved as the year went on while the front 7 got banged up. We have a lot of young players who should be better this year.

It all starts with more negative plays on 1st and 2nd down. That means stopping the run better as well as getting pressure on the QB. Forcing teams into 3rd and 10+. We ended up in too many 3rd and short situations last year.

I'm hoping Warren comes back healthy and we can bring someone in through the draft at right end. That should hopefully shore up the defensive line. It's important that Mike Wright comes back and plays to his level of the last few years because he is a really underrated sub package rusher. I'm not sure JJ Watt is going to come in and be any better than Wright is at this role.

Cunningham figures to be better this year but it would be good to have a three down OLB - not necessarily one who is an amazing pass rusher but one who would bring versatility to the D. Maybe able to play a few different positions. I think Bowers could be that guy, he is good against the run, looks more athletic on tape then he has shown recently. I think he's a guy Bill could move around and create some mismatches. But of course he has a lot of questions.

We will obviously have Bodden back but I wouldn't mind if Bill picked a DB early. I want him to pick the best players available and if that turns out to be Amukamara then fine. After all, you don't know what your needs will turn out to be as the year goes on.

 

[Fencer]

Perhaps I should have been more specific.

Who/what, in the draft, would have a chance of quickly improving passing-down defense?

 

[Water Boy]

I'd love to see us get some combination of Watt or Jordan at DE and Kerrigan/Houston/Sheard/Reed/Carter etc at OLB.

 

[bucky]

I completely agree, improving the pass defence isn't about adding 1 or 2 pass rushers and looking for a quick fix, its about improving the defence as a whole, which will in turn improve our pass defence. It all starts by stopping the run. By stopping the run we are able to then be more creative and aggressive with our blitzing, and use more resources trying to stop the passing game. I think the best way to go about this is by adding an athletic, run stuffing RDE, and a strong edge setting OLB, that is also a threat to rush the passer. This not only improves the run defence, but allows our LB's more freedom to make plays. I don't believe a specialist pass rusher or adding another DB will have as much of an impact as a good all around DE and OLB.

While I do not disagree with this general assessment, I think it's a little too simplistic of an answer. IMO, there are 2 areas that need to be improved - base defense and 3rd down.

In the base, there are too many "specialists" - guys who are only good at stopping the run (Vince, Brace, T Warren, Spikes, Cunningham), or only good against the pass (TBC, Wright, Guyton). So adding a complete player at either DE or OLB position (or ideally both) would improve the situation. This has to be priority #1 for this team.

On 3rd downs it's pretty straightforward - Pryor needs to be improved on, Wright has been hurt and may retire, and the LDE spot - which has been occupied by the likes of Crable, Burgess and Moore - needs to be improved on. Of course, if you improve the base defense by adding good 3-down players, you improve the 3rd down D as well. But in any case, the 3rd down pass rush has to be improved.

PS: to answer the question of "who", I would go like this:

Jordan, Watt, Heyward, Fairley and Wilkerson could all project as 3 down DEs for the Pats, though some project more favorably than others.

Von Miller and Ayers project as 3-down OLBs.

Everyone else, IMO, is either a 2-down run stuffer or a 3rd down pass rush specialist.

 

[Wilfork#75]

Perhaps I should have been more specific.

Who/what, in the draft, would have a chance of quickly improving passing-down defense?

If your looking strictly at improving on passing downs:
OLB- Da'Quan Bowers- Clemson or OLB-Robert Quinn- UNC
Sub Rusher- Cedrick Thornton- Southern Arkansas (5th or 6th round)
Healthy Mike Wright
Healthy Leigh Bodden
Any FS who can stick to their assignments

But I don't think improving the pass defence is as easy as that.

 

[Fencer]

If your looking strictly at improving on passing downs:
OLB- Da'Quan Bowers- Clemson or OLB-Robert Quinn- UNC
Sub Rusher- Cedrick Thornton- Southern Arkansas (5th or 6th round)
Healthy Mike Wright
Healthy Leigh Bodden
Any FS who can stick to their assignments

But I don't think improving the pass defence is as easy as that.

So your only draft idea is a rusher? Makes sense. On those downs we can play 4 OLBs, so a new guy would have to take reps from the worst of TBC, Moore, Cunningham, Ninkovich, and beat out Fletcher for the role, and hopefully be as good as those guys in sub-package run defense (and/or pass coverage) -- not trivial to accomplish, but conceivable.

 

[Fencer]

On 3rd downs it's pretty straightforward - Pryor needs to be improved on, Wright has been hurt and may retire, and the LDE spot - which has been occupied by the likes of Crable, Burgess and Moore - needs to be improved on.

OK. That's pretty direct. In other years, Seymour would have played the Wright or Pryor role. It's the argument to pay up for Watt rather than settling for a slightly lesser guy.

Actually, Wilfork took some reps there. He has the talent. But perhaps the best use of him even so is to leave him in on all base downs, and give him whatever rest he needs in the sub package.

 

[Wilfork#75]

So your only draft idea is a rusher? Makes sense. On those downs we can play 4 OLBs, so a new guy would have to take reps from the worst of TBC, Moore, Cunningham, Ninkovich, and beat out Fletcher for the role, and hopefully be as good as those guys in sub-package run defense (and/or pass coverage) -- not trivial to accomplish, but conceivable.

Da'Quan Bowers would be a 3-down elephant OLB who is a beast against the run and an explosive pass rusher. He also offers the versatility to play the 3-tech and 5-tech on passing downs. Cedrick Thornton is a very talented interior pass rusher that plays both the 3-tech and 5-tech. I think this gives you versatility accross the D-Line whether in a 3 or 4 man front, and allows your to bring pressure in a number of ways. Add an improved Cunningham, and a healthy Mike Wright and Myron Pryor to TBC, Ninko and Moore and you have a pretty solid front 7 on third down. And with a healthy Leigh Bodden I'm not too worried about our secondary, so our third down defence should improve. However I do think the key to success on third down is a strong base defence forcing the opposition into long 3rd downs which allows the defence to be more creative and aggressive in their play calling.

 

[charlie2]

I think the biggest need is an upgrade over Pryor/Wright as a third down penetrating DT/interior pass rush specialist. The problem is BB won't use a first round pick on a player that can't be an every down contributor in the base 3-4. The ideal player for this role is Marvin Austin- he is going to be an outstanding player. However, he is not a fit at DE in the base 3-4 and pick 33 is likely the first spot to grab him- he most likely won't be available. I'm sure the Patriots will also consider Terrell Mcclain at 60.

 

[patchick]

This is a fascinating thread. We have a wildly varied and conflicting array of prescriptions, several of which are described by their authors as "simple and obvious."

I think the interior pass rush hasn't gotten enough play in the overall discussion this offseason. The loss of both Wright and Pryor was pretty devastating. (For those disappointed in Pryor last year, remember that he only managed to suit up for 9 games and played several of those with a bad back.) Does anybody feel confident in them returning healthy? If not, isn't that a major need?

I agree that Austin is ideal but will go high. Any thoughts on Martin Parker as a mid-round possibility?

 

[Fencer]

However I do think the key to success on third down is a strong base defence forcing the opposition into long 3rd downs which allows the defence to be more creative and aggressive in their play calling.

One would think.

But last year, the Pats were an exception to that rule.

 

[Fencer]

I think the interior pass rush hasn't gotten enough play in the overall discussion this offseason. The loss of both Wright and Pryor was pretty devastating. (For those disappointed in Pryor last year, remember that he only managed to suit up for 9 games and played several of those with a bad back.) Does anybody feel confident in them returning healthy? If not, isn't that a major need?

You mean that Wright and Pryor injured aren't as good in the role as Seymour & Green in their primes?

Come to think of it, Green's post-rookie contract illustrates the value BB can place on a guy who's good in the sub packages but JAGgish in the base defense.

 

[SamBamsFan]

Any thoughts on Martin Parker as a mid-round possibility?

I like him. He does have a skill set that might make him go earlier than many "experts" are forecasting. Would you pick him the 4th round? He would be a rotational player for the 1st few years IMO.

 

[Fencer]

What about Jurrell Casey? Said to have some pass rush chops, but also to hold up against the run like a sandypants. He won scout team awards and is a PR major, so he probably has a good football personality. His arms are short, however.

A good sub-package guy, or a poor man's Dan Klecko?

 

[MaineMan]

Perhaps I should have been more specific.

Who/what, in the draft, would have a chance of quickly improving passing-down defense?

I'd still go with a run-stopping RDE. As notoriously poor as we were on 3rd-and-short against the run, we were probably just as bad on 3rd-and-7 or more against the run. That would seem to significantly enhance the effectiveness of play-action for the opposing offense. And, of course, play-action's main purpose is to stifle a pass-rush.

So, getting another run-stopping DE to restore a 30-front against which running the ball on 3rd-and-7 is no longer a viable option should reduce the effectiveness of play-action against us and enhance our pass-rush even with the guys we already have.

OTOH, if we DON'T reduce the effectiveness of play-action against us, even an elite pass-rusher will be less effective.