Jeremy Beal vs Lamar Woodley

[PATSNUTme]

Most rankings have Beal ranked in the low to mid 100's. However, I think his value to teams like the Patriots, Steelers, or Packers is greater. He has been a very productive player for 3 years in a big time program playing against top competition.

I got out my 2007 draft guide and Woodley was rated as a consensus 3rd round pick. In fact all the same things said about Woodley is now being said about Beal. He is identical in height, weight, and speed.

As some said, "throw away the stop watch and watch the way he plays football on film". He is a much better football player than an athlete. He is also smart and tough with a great work ethic, loves the game, and was a team captain.

Those of who keep draft guides, and I do back to 1994,can read Woodley's write ups vs Beal's, and you would think you are reading about the same player.

I would not object to the Patriots using #60 or #74 on Beal if is still on the board.

Any thoughts on this player?

 

[jukes]

1994? im confused

 

[serifyn]

ive read that Beal's struggles compare to Brandon Spikes from last year, and we all know how well Spikes turned out sans pills.

 

[PATSNUTme]

1994? im confused

I
keep
draft
guides
dating
back
to 1994.

 

[Sciz]

I was never overly high on Beal. He had mediocre college athleticism, but enough that with his motor, he could be productive. What happens when his athleticism goes from mediocre by college standards to horrific by NFL standards? That motor isn't going to be able to make up for the lack of athleticism there.

 

[PATSNUTme]

ive read that Beal's struggles compare to Brandon Spikes from last year, and we all know how well Spikes turned out sans pills.

Please provide a source or link for that, because all I've seen about him is "strong character and work ethic".

What "struggles" are you referring?

 

[MaineMan]

Most rankings have Beal ranked in the low to mid 100's. However, I think his value to teams like the Patriots, Steelers, or Packers is greater. He has been a very productive player for 3 years in a big time program playing against top competition.

I got out my 2007 draft guide and Woodley was rated as a consensus 3rd round pick. In fact all the same things said about Woodley is now being said about Beal. He is identical in height, weight, and speed.

As some said, "throw away the stop watch and watch the way he plays football on film". He is a much better football player than an athlete. He is also smart and tough with a great work ethic, loves the game, and was a team captain.

Those of who keep draft guides, and I do back to 1994,can read Woodley's write ups vs Beal's, and you would think you are reading about the same player.

I would not object to the Patriots using #60 or #74 on Beal if is still on the board.

Any thoughts on this player?

It would be interesting to compare Woodley's All-Star game and practice notes with Beal's. Beal was highly-ranked until then and started dropping afterward. Late-2nd/early 3rd seems appropriate based on those. What was Woodley's draft-ranking "arc"? Did it mirror Beal's? Was it fairly stable? Or did it rise through the All-Star to Combine period?

Alos, I'm wondering how Sam Acho's write-ups compare with Woodley's, if only because he's now ranked in roughly the same range as Beal is and Woodley was.

 

[PATSNUTme]

I was never overly high on Beal. He had mediocre college athleticism, but enough that with his motor, he could be productive. What happens when his athleticism goes from mediocre by college standards to horrific by NFL standards? That motor isn't going to be able to make up for the lack of athleticism there.

They said or Woodley "not a gifted athlete, with a high motor". Four years later, he's one of the best at his position, which they doubted he could play.

 

[Sciz]

They said or Woodley "not a gifted athlete, with a high motor". Four years later, he's one of the best at his position, which they doubted he could play.

If Woodley is not a gifted athlete, then Beal isn't an athlete at all. Sure, both lack great athleticism, but they're at far different points on the "unathletic scale."

 

[serifyn]

Please provide a source or link for that, because all I've seen about him is "strong character and work ethic".

What "struggles" are you referring?

i believe he struggled at the senior bowl, combine and pro day.

 

[PATSNUTme]

It would be interesting to compare Woodley's All-Star game and practice notes with Beal's. Beal was highly-ranked until then and started dropping afterward. Late-2nd/early 3rd seems appropriate based on those. What was Woodley's draft-ranking "arc"? Did it mirror Beal's? Was it fairly stable? Or did it rise through the All-Star to Combine period?

Alos, I'm wondering how Sam Acho's write-ups compare with Woodley's, if only because he's now ranked in roughly the same range as Beal is and Woodley was.

All references to the players were post All Star games.

And Acho's write ups are similar but he was not as productive as Beal or Woodley over the 3 year period.

Production over a 3-2 year period is one thing that I look for when looking at players. Some of these guys are one year wonders, so I do wonder if they are just playing for the high draft position and their dedication to the game is lacking.

 

[PATSNUTme]

If Woodley is not a gifted athlete, then Beal isn't an athlete at all. Sure, both lack great athleticism, but they're at far different points on the "unathletic scale."

Did you believe that in 2007 about Woodley?

Beal seems to be a football player, which is what the Patriots are drafting. 2008 season 61-15.5-8.5, 2009 69-19-11. 2010 72-19-8.5 with a high ankle sprain.

But he probably is not very good at the cone drill.

 

[Defsoul]

Lamar Woodley's workout numbers according to NFL Draft Scout:

Michigan Pro Day
Height: 6014
Weight: 266
40 Yrd Dash: 4.74
20 Yrd Dash: 2.72
10 Yrd Dash: 1.65
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 29
Vertical Jump: 38 1/2
Broad Jump: 9'9"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.42
3-Cone Drill:

Jeremy Beal's numbers:

NFL Combine
Height: 6022
Weight: 262
40 Yrd Dash: 5.14
20 Yrd Dash: 2.92
10 Yrd Dash: 1.78
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 22
Vertical Jump: 28 1/2
Broad Jump: 08'10"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.46
3-Cone Drill: 7.20

Oklahoma Pro Day
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.41
3-Cone Drill: 6.95

On paper, Lamar Woodley was far more explosive coming out of college than Jeremy Beal.

 

[reflexblue]

It would be interesting to compare Woodley's All-Star game and practice notes with Beal's. Beal was highly-ranked until then and started dropping afterward. Late-2nd/early 3rd seems appropriate based on those. What was Woodley's draft-ranking "arc"? Did it mirror Beal's? Was it fairly stable? Or did it rise through the All-Star to Combine period?

Alos, I'm wondering how Sam Acho's write-ups compare with Woodley's, if only because he's now ranked in roughly the same range as Beal is and Woodley was.

I'm more comfortable with what someone has done over their career vs one All Star game or the combine. So if that is when Beals stock dropped i wouldn't give it as much wgt. as if the situation was reversed ie Mammula

 

[MaineMan]

All references to the players were post All Star games.

And Acho's write ups are similar but he was not as productive as Beal or Woodley over the 3 year period.

Production over a 3-2 year period is one thing that I look for when looking at players. Some of these guys are one year wonders, so I do wonder if they are just playing for the high draft position and their dedication to the game is lacking.

Actually, I was asking about their comparative "arcs" - as in, where was Woodley ranked in, say, January of his draft year compared to where Beal was ranked in January of this year - and then comparing those to where both guys were ranked at this point, a couple weeks out for the draft? Did Woodley rise, fall, or stay mostly around the same ranking?

WRT total college production including TT, TFL, sacks, QBH, PBUs and FFs, Beal is certainly right there at the top among "three-year starters" along with Kerrigan, and with Romeus close behind. Acho is pretty far ahead of all "two-year-starters" and his two-year total production is pretty much in line with the 3-year total production of guys like Reed, Sheard, Clayborn and Ayers.

Though I'm not necessarily touting Acho over Beal, I like the fact that he's very publicly made a commitment to train as a 34OLB on his own, with private instructors in FLA. Notes from some observers who saw him in LB drills at his All-Star game who also saw him in drills at the combine noted distinct improvements. Gotta like the drive, anyway. But, I'm really only saying that he might be included in the conversation with guys like Beal (or Sheard, et al).

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Lamar Woodley's workout numbers according to NFL Draft Scout:

Michigan Pro Day
Height: 6014
Weight: 266
40 Yrd Dash: 4.74
20 Yrd Dash: 2.72
10 Yrd Dash: 1.65
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 29
Vertical Jump: 38 1/2
Broad Jump: 9'9"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.42
3-Cone Drill:

Jeremy Beal's numbers:

NFL Combine
Height: 6022
Weight: 262
40 Yrd Dash: 5.14
20 Yrd Dash: 2.92
10 Yrd Dash: 1.78
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 22
Vertical Jump: 28 1/2
Broad Jump: 08'10"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.46
3-Cone Drill: 7.20

Oklahoma Pro Day
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.41
3-Cone Drill: 6.95

On paper, Lamar Woodley was far more explosive coming out of college than Jeremy Beal.

Let's repeat this for the benefit of our friend at the Super Walmart greeter station and his shopping cart full of draft guides. Woodley's athleticism significantly greater than Beal's, further:

04/24/07 - Draft Value: A relentless pass rusher, Woodley is the first in Michigan's storied history to ever win both the Lombardi Award (nation's top defensive lineman) and Ted Hendricks Award (nation's top defensive end) in the same season. Shorter at 6-foot-2 than scouts would like, Woodley will almost certainly fall into the middle or late second round, where the 266-pounder eventually will be considered one of the true steals of the draft. There are flashier defensive ends available, but few provide the passion and consistency that Woodley did while at Michigan.

12/13/06 - 2006 AP All-American First Team: LaMarr Woodley led the conference and is tied for seventh nationally with 11 sacks on the season. Woodley tallied 15.5 tackles for loss and 33 total stops this season to lead all Wolverine defensive linemen. He notched five multi-sack games in 2006 and tied a school record with four forced fumbles. The senior co-captain also recorded four fumble recoveries in 2006, taking one back for his first career touchdown, a 54-yard touchdown return at Notre Dame (Sept. 16).

12/11/06 - 2006 Walter Camp All-America First Team: Senior defensive end LaMarr Woodley (Saginaw, Mich./Saginaw HS), Woodley was edged out Penn State linebackers Paul Posluszny for the Bednarik Award as the nation's outstanding player by the Maxwell Football Club. The Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year and the Defensive Lineman of the Year, Woodley won the Lombardi Award and Ted Hendricks Award.

11/30/06 - AFCA Coaches All-America Team: DE/OLB LaMarr Woodley finished the regular season with 15.5 tackles for a loss, 11 sacks and four forced fumbles for the Wolverines.

12/27/10 - 2010 AP ALL-AMERICA SECOND TEAM: DE-Jeremy Beal, senior, Oklahoma, has been selected AP Second Team All-American for the 2010 college football season as selected by the Associated Press. - AP Sports

12/15/10 - 2010 WALTER CAMP FOOTBALL FOUNDATION SECOND TEAM ALL-AMERICAN: DL Jeremy Beal, Oklahoma, Sr., leads the Big 12 in tackles for loss and is second in sacks, was named the 2010 Big 12 Defensive Lineman of the Year. - Oklahoma football

12/06/10 - 2010 ALL-BIG 12 FOOTBALL FIRST TEAM (COACHES): DL Jeremy Beal, Oklahoma, Sr., has been selected All-Big 12 First Team for the 2010 college football season as selected by the Big 12 coaches. - Big 12 football

11/30/10 - 2010 BIG 12 DEFENSIVE LINEMAN OF THE YEAR (COACHES): Jeremy Beal embraced the change and again showed why he's considered among the greatest Oklahoma Sooners defensive players. He shrugged humbly at the notion his work in pass coverage helped at least slow down Oklahoma State in the Sooners' 47-41 victory, which put them in Saturday night's Big 12 title game against Nebraska at Cowboys Stadium. Oklahoma coach Bob Stoops, though, wasn't shy in explaining what Beal's versatility has meant to holding together a defense that has struggled at times. "The guy is the absolute best," Stoops said. "He was again one of our players of the game. He just consistently makes plays when you need them. We stood him up and put him in a different position because of all their four-wide receiver sets. He took to it like he was out there playing cornerback. The guy can do anything." Few players could have made the move as seamlessly as Beal, who leads the Sooners in sacks with 81/2 and 19 tackles for losses. For his career, he ranks second in sacks with 29 (behind Cedric Jones with 31 1/2) and second in tackles for loss with 57 1/2 (behind Rocky Calmus with 59). "It's crossed my mind a time or two because there have been some great players here," Beal said. "I can't believe I'm up there with them, the Lee Roy Selmons and everybody else." Beal is tied for sixth on the team with 60 tackles. - Tom Spousta, The Dallas Morning News

In this clash of heavy weights, Woodley brings more and bigger hardware to the discussion.

Remember to be discrete when ogling the young ladies who stop by for a shopping cart. :snob:

 

[Seneschal2]

Beal seems to be a football player, which is what the Patriots are drafting....

This past week, I posted that I was once very high on Beal, but now -- :ugh:

For some perspective:

Like yourself, I also look for "football players" when viewing college games. I've seen Beal in several games the last two seasons and based on those performances, he made my potential Pats prospects list -- as a football player. Followed up with some research, found he had the necessary intangibles (smart, coachable, productive, team first) -- which solidified him as a Pats prospect.

Then came the Combine. :ugh: was the majority opinion. For those who don't know, it was his slow 40 and splits that were disappointing, along with his jumps. I thought he was faster (on the field), but based on his Combine numbers, started questioning his lack of speed, explosion, and overall athleticism.

Then came his Pro Day. He stood by his poor Combine 40, but ran the shuttle and cone. Comparing those two drills to the Combine results of top rated DE/OLBs, the results were as follows:

Beal - SHUTTLE 4.41 3-CONE 6.95
Kerrigan - 4.39/7.18
Quinn - 4.40/7.13
Smith - 4.50/7.19

All four similar in weight (260+) w/ Beal having comparable or better numbers in the two drills. Those numbers exemplify the player I saw on the field.

Where Beal loses mightily is the straight line 40, vertical, and broad jump -- which is why he's now considered a sliding player.

He's still on my list...but I have my doubts if his lack of athleticism is enough to play (a position) for Belichick. As a pure football player -- I have no doubts.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

This past week, I posted that I was once very high on Beal, but now -- :ugh:

For some perspective:

Like yourself, I also look for "football players" when viewing college games. I've seen Beal in several games the last two seasons and based on those performances, he made my potential Pats prospects list -- as a football player. Followed up with some research, found he had the necessary intangibles (smart, coachable, productive, team first) -- which solidified him as a Pats prospect.

Then came the Combine. :ugh: was the majority opinion. For those who don't know, it was his slow 40 and splits that were disappointing, along with his jumps. I thought he was faster (on the field), but based on his Combine numbers, started questioning his lack of speed, explosion, and overall athleticism.

Then came his Pro Day. He stood by his poor Combine 40, but ran the shuttle and cone. Comparing those two drills to the Combine results of top rated DE/OLBs, the results were as follows:

Beal - SHUTTLE 4.41 3-CONE 6.95
Kerrigan - 4.39/7.18
Quinn - 4.40/7.13
Smith - 4.50/7.19

All four similar in weight (260+) w/ Beal having comparable or better numbers in the two drills. Those numbers exemplify the player I saw on the field.

Where Beal loses mightily is the straight line 40, vertical, and broad jump -- which is why he's now considered a sliding player.

He's still on my list...but I have my doubts if his lack of athleticism is enough to play (a position) for Belichick. As a pure football player -- I have no doubts.

If we needed another Spikes I'd be interested, but with Fletcher's impressive rookie season, I'm more interested in a more instinctive Guyton for STs and passing downs. As an OLB ... Beal who?

 

[DaBruinz]

i believe he struggled at the senior bowl, combine and pro day.

I watched the Senior Bowl. Beal was very explosive off the snap. His timing was slightly off and he got one off-sides penalty and should have gotten a second, but didn't. But he was very disruptive in the backfield.

Now, that being said, Beal's combine numbers were lousy in the 10, 20, and 40, as were his vertical and Broad Jump. He actually had good numbers in the 3 cone at his pro-day, posting under a 7.

 

[Off The Grid]

Lamar Woodley's workout numbers according to NFL Draft Scout:

Michigan Pro Day
Height: 6014
Weight: 266
40 Yrd Dash: 4.74
20 Yrd Dash: 2.72
10 Yrd Dash: 1.65
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 29
Vertical Jump: 38 1/2
Broad Jump: 9'9"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.42
3-Cone Drill:

Jeremy Beal's numbers:

NFL Combine
Height: 6022
Weight: 262
40 Yrd Dash: 5.14
20 Yrd Dash: 2.92
10 Yrd Dash: 1.78
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 22
Vertical Jump: 28 1/2
Broad Jump: 08'10"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.46
3-Cone Drill: 7.20

Oklahoma Pro Day
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.41
3-Cone Drill: 6.95

On paper, Lamar Woodley was far more explosive coming out of college than Jeremy Beal.