Unspecial teams

[patchick]

There was only one situation where he could have kicked and the Pats elected to go for it, and that was on the 4th and 1 from the SD 32. It's a 49-yard attempt but they went for it instead and picked up the first down, which led to a huge TD. So I'm confused.

I don't get it either. BB is always aggressive on 4th downs, and that choice paid off. Why take it as an indictment of Gostkowski? The expected value of a kick there was about 1.5 points, the expected value of going for it was higher.

The real issue on teams right now is Ingram, who has suddenly lost it altogether. Reminds me of a golfer who misses a few putts then starts to overthink every 4-footer.

 

[buile]

what about our LS Jake Ingram?

Arg, this is true... one or two bad snaps a game... It's only a matter of time before that costs a game.

 

[Whatarunweareon...]

Arrington was the guy who extended and laid out from the kicker's left and he did tip the ball which I think kept it from hooking back in. A game saver.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

I don't get it either. BB is always aggressive on 4th downs, and that choice paid off. Why take it as an indictment of Gostkowski? The expected value of a kick there was about 1.5 points, the expected value of going for it was higher.

The real issue on teams right now is Ingram, who has suddenly lost it altogether. Reminds me of a golfer who misses a few putts then starts to overthink every 4-footer.

The golfer analogy is a good one. It's not a lack of talent or ability so much as a mental block that develops. Maybe there are some mechanics involved as well, I don't know. But just as Ghost struggled early on yet rounded into form, I have to think (and maybe this is wishful thinking) that Scott O'Brien can help Ingram turn it around.

Ingram was really solid all last season so we know he can do the job. But I have no idea how to actually fix it.

 

[DaBruinz]

4th quarter onside kick....

Due to CBS11 in Dallas pre-empting the game so their Moron of a weatherman could listen to himself talk, I missed this.

I have to say, though, that it's surprising that the Pats weren't expecting this... Norv Turner had tried it earlier in the game, only to have Dane Fletcher make a damn good play. So, one would think that Scotty O'B would have his players be alert for it again. Kinda surprised that they were caught napping.

 

[Fencer]

It was Chung. He ran out of the locker room and insisted he be on that play. Almost had the block too.

Well, THAT is good news regarding his injury ...

... unless you just misidentified the player.

 

[Fencer]

The real issue on teams right now is Ingram, who has suddenly lost it altogether. Reminds me of a golfer who misses a few putts then starts to overthink every 4-footer.

Amen.

However you frame it, we have an issue at LS.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Re: 4th quarter onside kick....

No real good excuse here. They just blew it.

 

[Fencer]

Before we bash STs too too much:

• Edelman did have a big return, which led to points
• They kicked it away from Tate three times (twice onside), and two of those went well for us
• Mesko made up for Ingram
• That FG miss at the end was nice
• Gost did make all his FGs

A poor day on balance, but not an utter catastrophe.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: 4th quarter onside kick....

What were BBs comments on it after the game?

And if it was obvious (like SD lining up for the on-side kick) then it makes it even worse...

 

[mgcolby]

If we are going to talk about special teams, then what about our LS Jake Ingram? One bad snap is one thing, but at what point do you question his productivity and performance?

My memory may be off but I don't remember him struggling with snaps before.

But he was definitely shakey today.

 

[GoWhalers]

Re: 4th quarter onside kick....

It wasn't an obvious onside kick formation, and the kick was near-perfect in that it must have traveled about 10.5 yards (and also took a backwards bounce upon hitting the ground).

A defense is always at a disadvantage against a well-coordinated offense, and in this case San Diego executed just about to perfection. Can't blame the Pats too much on this one, despite not liking the outcome of the play.

 

[jsull87]

It was Chung. He ran out of the locker room and insisted he be on that play. Almost had the block too.

hahaha if that's true that is awesome.

But i think someone else said it was arrington which is a little more believable

 

[mgteich]

Ingram made more then one bad snap. Mesko was a hero more than once.

If we are going to talk about special teams, then what about our LS Jake Ingram? One bad snap is one thing, but at what point do you question his productivity and performance?

 

[mgteich]

OK, I can't kick a 50 yard field goal with regularity in good conditions. Why is that relevant.

The question is when should a field goal kicker be depended on to kick a field goal. What is the point at which we should expect him to be more than 50%. Another poster suggested 45 yards is a even money proposition for a top kicker. I disagreed. What do you say?

BTW, we pay Gostkowski to be one of the 5 best field goal kickers on the planet.

I have no dislike for Gostkowski. I strongly suggested his extension months before it happened, as others did. And yes, I know that Vinitieri also wasn't expected to kick from 50 yards.

If Goskowski is money in the snow from 45 or less in the winter, I'm fine with that. However, I don't think that 50 yards in good weather is field goal that most of the top kickers can't be exdpected to make.

Why don't you go do to your local football field and try a 50 yard field goal, then talk to everyone about how "Top Kickers" should be 50% or better from that range.

Also, people seem to forget that a missed 50 yarder gives the oppoents the ball at their 40 yard line. Another reason why BB may not have wanted to go for it at that point.

 

[Fencer]

OK, I can't kick a 50 yard field goal with regularity in good conditions. Why is that relevant.

The question is when should a field goal kicker be depended on to kick a field goal. What is the point at which we should expect him to be more than 50%. Another poster suggested 45 yards is a even money proposition for a top kicker. I disagreed. What do you say?

BTW, we pay Gostkowski to be one of the 5 best field goal kickers on the planet.

I have no dislike for Gostkowski. I strongly suggested his extension months before it happened, as others did. And yes, I know that Vinitieri also wasn't expected to kick from 50 yards.

If Goskowski is money in the snow from 45 or less in the winter, I'm fine with that. However, I don't think that 50 yards in good weather is field goal that most of the top kickers can't be exdpected to make.

One problem is that the rules and tactics keep changing to increase the penalties for a missed field goal. First there was the change in the spot. Then there were coaches realizing you could realistically run back a miss, something I think San Diego innovated.

So the risk/reward on longer kicks is worse than it used to be.

 

[mgteich]

Agreed..........

One problem is that the rules and tactics keep changing to increase the penalties for a missed field goal. First there was the change in the spot. Then there were coaches realizing you could realistically run back a miss, something I think San Diego innovated.

So the risk/reward on longer kicks is worse than it used to be.

 

[BSR]

OK, I can't kick a 50 yard field goal with regularity in good conditions. Why is that relevant.

The question is when should a field goal kicker be depended on to kick a field goal. What is the point at which we should expect him to be more than 50%. Another poster suggested 45 yards is a even money proposition for a top kicker. I disagreed. What do you say?

BTW, we pay Gostkowski to be one of the 5 best field goal kickers on the planet.

I have no dislike for Gostkowski. I strongly suggested his extension months before it happened, as others did. And yes, I know that Vinitieri also wasn't expected to kick from 50 yards.

If Goskowski is money in the snow from 45 or less in the winter, I'm fine with that. However, I don't think that 50 yards in good weather is field goal that most of the top kickers can't be exdpected to make.

The percentage of picking up 1 yard is about 75% so it makes sense to go for it at that place on the field. They often do that there.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

Meh...you can't be on your A game every week. There will be let downs.

Also, specifically on Ghost he's made his last 8 or 9 including a game winner. I'll take it.

I was less than impressed with some of his kickoffs though.

 

[mgteich]

Is our percentage of getting 1 yard 75% against top defensive teams with a mediocre running back and no fullback?

I don't disagree with going for it today or last year. I just wouldn't have run Green-Ellis up the middle.

The percentage of picking up 1 yard is about 75% so it makes sense to go for it at that place on the field. They often do that there.