Do The Ends Justify The Means

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

I always thought, anecdotal, that the Pats played to their level of competition... better against the really good teams(except the Jets in week 2) and not as well against the poor teams. Many times it seems as though a poor team can amass a ton of yards passing, but still not win....

The bottom line is that it is about winning... that is all that matters, there are no style points in the NFL....

This is a good point. I sometimes think that BB has these guys a little too tightly wound. They play flat in games that they should enjoy going for the kill...except 2007 of course.

But the fact is that winning UGLY is what we are all about and always have been. Anything more is icing on the cake, not room for fan critique.

On the other hand the latest breed of whiny fanboys around here seem to discount that we almost won the superbowl in 2007, and we had a decent shot in 2005 except for the refs, and again a VERY good shot in 2006 except for the refs and the league scheduling. So it looks like BB is doing all right ugly.

 

[fxkane]

Maybe BB is a Mohammed Ali enthusiast--the old rope-a-dope strategy. Whatever it is, it sure isn't the old-fashion Vince Lombardi way of never giving up any first down anywhere on the field--because that puts your own damn offense in a hole--right? Anyway that's the way football was once played--before the offense got its rule changes. I prefer the old kind of defenses which always came with the pressure.

 

[BlueThunder]

On the other hand the latest breed of whiny fanboys around here seem to discount that we almost won the superbowl in 2007, and we had a decent shot in 2005 except for the refs, and again a VERY good shot in 2006 except for the refs and the league scheduling. So it looks like BB is doing all right ugly.

What's with the ref's excuses?? You sound like a whiney NYJ fan.

 

[Ring 6]

I can't figure out whether Andy's comment is an example of "spin" that would make Karl Rove or David Axelrod proud or whether he's on to something. The bottom line is this is a long season and we'll know one way or the other in a few weeks.

In the meantime, I do agree that a Win's a Win and let's not get all tangled up in dissing them when they come our way.

Over the years, it has been very common for the fan base to act disgusted that a young QB put up some numbers in a loss to us, even when they choked on it in the 4th quarter.

I am not saying excuse the pass defense because we let them succeed, thats foolish. What I am saying is that with a widely held belief that our scheme says make the youngQB beat us, how do you think you make someone beat you? You play a defense that invites them, eve dares them to throw. Clearly they will have more success at times against that kind of a defense. If in the end the QB gets his great day statistcally then throws game clinching Ints, isnt that the definition of making the guy beat you, and having it be a correct decision?

 

[Ring 6]

Excellent points. The difference is, we are not yet as reliably able to put the clamps on when we're forcing a lesser QB to throw it up.

I do think we have potential for INTs, due to athleticism and the pressure is improving.

It goes without saying that margins of victory mean nothing, that's just the frontrunners we've picked up along the way.

But we had Ints on 2 of the 3 4th quarter drives.

 

[Ring 6]

The problem with last week's game was that we didn't really take away anything. The offense just carried us is all.

The Bills racked up 134 yards on the ground at 5.6 yards per carry in addition to Fitzpatrick's numbers. Neither INT was a great play by a DB so much as it was an atrocious throw from a journeyman QB, though he was pressured both times.

The defense didn't really do much, and it came down to our #1 offense outscored the #30 offense.

I agree the run D should have been better.
But the D got 2 Int in 3 4th quarter drives. How would that qualify as not stopping anything?

 

[Ring 6]

As a fan I am dissapointed.. I really cant be embarrased becasue I had nothing to do with it

I dont think its as simple as that. I dont believe in a sport such as the NFL you give a team ANY wondow of opportunity. So your "focus" may be to stop the run ans "FORCE" the pass??? that doesnt mean you let them pass with success. Which seems to be the case with our secondary

Now when you factor in the draft and budget, the money may be spent on stopping the run before stopping the pass??? But how would do that and still insure success... there is no gurantee a particular player is going to perform the way you want him to.

So at the end of the day you draft the best team starting with the best player in his position on down according to your own measuring stick and formula. And then put them on the field with the best coaching and best game plan!

If the best player available to you in the draft is a QB and you already have a franchise QB you either draft that QB or trade down so that you dont lose that value.. you dont skip over the QB and draft the LB....because.. well..you dont need another franchise QB??

Free agency has given the opprunity for teams to tweak certain areas. But the foundation of any franchise comes from the draft.

And at that point you have to work with what you have.. And hope the players you drafted work the way you need/want the, too. And when it doesnt it could be because of coaching, the way you rate the draft, or the player...ect. ect. But there are too many factors to say... hey this is they way its being done..

I kow what your feeling though...I think this team has lost a step. Personally, I think it has been through the loss of coaches and other non player personal.. EX. I have to say I like a Josh McDaniels offense! Denver might not have the key players on their team to make a SB run???? but watching the game last week it reminded me of when I really like our Offense!

Not sure what all that stuff has to do with the topic, but it is interesting that you liked the McDaniel offense that scored 14 points and got blown out.

 

[flycessna]

Apparently you haven't liked any of our defenses since 2000...

Oh no, I have liked our defenses even through much frustrations from time to time. I have especially like players that we have had.. I just dont believe their weakness in the secondary are a method of operation as much as an undesriable result..

 

[RayClay]

But we had Ints on 2 of the 3 4th quarter drives.

I don't think we are in disagreement as I was talking overall, not that particular game.

as reliably able to put the clamps on

I do think we have potential for INTs, due to athleticism and the pressure is improving.

 

[flycessna]

Not sure what all that stuff has to do with the topic, but it is interesting that you liked the McDaniel offense that scored 14 points and got blown out.

Well, that's why I said I dont think he has the PLAYERS to make a run. But I like his play calling and they way he runs the offense! Still wish he was here!

 

[RayClay]

Oh no, I have liked our defenses even through much frustrations from time to time. I have especially like players that we have had.. I just dont believe their weakness in the secondary are a method of operation as much as an undesriable result..

We are much less experienced, therefore we would be less effective than some past defenses no matter what we play.

We have certainly had periods of awful secondary play in the last ten years, we weren't intending these youngsters to lead, but to follow Bodden.

 

[Fencer]

The defense is not working as well as we'd wish it to. Period. It isn't even close. Would another scheme work better with these personnel? In broad terms, why would one think so? For lesser changes? Well, Crennel did much improve the defense when he first joined the team, by simplifying it. My guess is BB has been working hard on just that and closely related issues -- figuring out what kind of a defense THESE guys can successfully learn and play. What kind of scheme can Meriweather make good decisions in? What kind of a scheme can Butler and/or the Ws execute successfully at all? What kind of a scheme can the rookie LBs make good decisions in this early their rookie year? What kind of a scheme can Mayo make quick reactions in? What can Mike Wright be used for so that he is strong (enough), smart, and fast, rather than being physically overmatched? Etc.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Over the years, it has been very common for the fan base to act disgusted that a young QB put up some numbers in a loss to us, even when they choked on it in the 4th quarter.

I am not saying excuse the pass defense because we let them succeed, thats foolish. What I am saying is that with a widely held belief that our scheme says make the youngQB beat us, how do you think you make someone beat you? You play a defense that invites them, eve dares them to throw. Clearly they will have more success at times against that kind of a defense. If in the end the QB gets his great day statistcally then throws game clinching Ints, isnt that the definition of making the guy beat you, and having it be a correct decision?

As I said in my post, you might just be on to something; the challenge to your analysis, as stated by others, is that this isn't (yet) a vintage Belichick D, but a work in progress, so the execution risk of the vintage strategy is a lot higher.

Anyway, I wasn't one of those trashing the D, and, as I also said in my post, I'm taking the view that it's a long season.

Miami's an important test, then they get a week to recalibrate whatever has to be tweaked before flying into the teeth of the Ravens, Chargers and Vikings. Belichick always says that he doesn't feel he knows what he has until around the sixth game and I think we'll have a pretty good idea where things are after those games.

 

[apple strudel]

Do The Ends Justify The Means

If the ends are a win and the means are within the rules, then of course they do. But since your OP is obviously rhetorical, I don't really need to say that, do I?

 

[Captain Cliche]

So to summarize, the second half collapses are intentional. Allow me to throw the BS flag.

I thought the second half collapse in the first game against the Bengals was BB letting off the throttle...now I realize it is the symptom of and ongoing problem and not BB "allowing" lesser QB's to rip our secondary to shreds.

 

[Simkin]

Re: Do The Ends Justfy The Means

I think alot of people forget how tightly contested most games were for the 2003 and 2004 Pats. I'm sick of people making moral defeats out of victories.

+1 , but main difference is that now our defence never holds

 

[FCB02062]

As I said in my post, you might just be on to something; the challenge to your analysis, as stated by others, is that this isn't (yet) a vintage Belichick D, but a work in progress, so the execution risk of the vintage strategy is a lot higher.

Anyway, I wasn't one of those trashing the D, and, as I also said in my post, I'm taking the view that it's a long season.

Miami's an important test, then they get a week to recalibrate whatever has to be tweaked before flying into the teeth of the Ravens, Chargers and Vikings. Belichick always says that he doesn't feel he knows what he has until around the sixth game and I think we'll have a pretty good idea where things are after those games.

I and plenty of other fans will tell Belichick what he has - a horrible defense....

 

[Patjew]

Re: Do The Ends Justfy The Means

+1 , but main difference is that now our defence never holds

Well, let's look at 2010 so far. In games 1 and 3 the defense held well enough to win. In game 2, the offense got shut out in the second half and gave no help to the defense. A Pats score or two and/or fewer 3 and outs in that game would have made the defense look alot better.

So sure, the D doesn't look great right now, but it has generally been effective enough this year to keep the team winning/competing.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I and plenty of other fans will tell Belichick what he has - a horrible defense....

Noted. I'm willing to give it a little while.

 

[Captain Cliche]

I always felt the close wins in the past (and there many) were more a result of BB closing the offensive playbook (not playing soft defense)...playing more conservative offense and allowing the D to hold and in cases opening things up again if the opposition closed the gap. It was maddening that we rarely blew anyone out. It also caused alot in the media to "not get it" because they appeared to just beat people and not smoke anyone....it wasn't sexy.

I longed for the days when the offense was "the straw that stirrs the drink" as Patfanken would say. Well, this is what we have now and 38 to 31 (or whatever) is fun to watch, but it is not really what BB is all about and it won't get you very far in the playoffs. This defense is a work in progress and I truely hope they will be flying around come cold weather. Either way, the future looks bright with all the young players and high draft picks in the future.