PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

The Big Nickel and it's Role in this years Draft...

Status
Not open for further replies.
The big nickel is the name of the defense with Cody and Wilfork on it. Not sure how that started but are are correct the nickel defense is a subpackage.

I'm loathe to contradict - but it was my understanding that the Big Nickel simply means 5 defensive backs with 3 safeties and 2 corners rather than 2 safeties and 3 corners.
 
I'm loathe to contradict - but it was my understanding that the Big Nickel simply means 5 defensive backs with 3 safeties and 2 corners rather than 2 safeties and 3 corners.


Correct.. but seems like BB employ's a subpackage based on Nickel principles a lot weather thats the big version or not..
 
"The Big Nickel" was invented by Fritz Shurmur in the late 80s/early 90s.

Shurmur used the scheme to great success against the juggernaut 49ers, but often used it as a base defense in later years when his linebackers were beset by injury. The Big Nickel allowed Shurmur to get an extra safety-linebacker hybrid into the lineup. Depending on his personnel he could cover and pass rush with the secondary personnel, but still support the run, all while disguising which coverage his defense would play.

Source: The Ultimate Guide to NFL Defense

It has nothing to do with playing two huge nose tackles in the middle of the defensive line. You use a safety-linebacker hybrid who can defend the pass and also hold up against the run instead of a third cornerback.
 
What needs to be identified is what kind of 33 they want to be. The modern 33 is quite different than the traditional big nickel, and the Patriots ran 33 last year. Fundamentally, the big nickel was a CYA coverage D. It was adequate against the pass and run, but excelled at neither. The 33 is a different beast all together. The majority of current anti-spread 33's are penetration based schemes. The most common of this is the 33 stack which aligns the backers and dline to facilitate penetration. It's a blitz defense up front. The safeties are aligned wide and are responsible for pursuit and outside contain. The pro (NE) 33 was a little different.

They took a lot of the old school Steelers zone blitz concepts and applied them. Like any other Belichick defense, this was predicated upon disguising coverage and blitzing. Many times the safety blitz read would be given in conjunction with a backer. The backer would check his rush and fall into the hot zone. Not to get too technical, but the corners would often play outside technique to encourage an inside hot. This is how most of the PD's the defense had happened.

Of course, these defenses are typically weak against well coached run blocking. The logical counter is to keep a normal or even heavy 34 dline on the field for this. The tradeoff, however is that you loose a lot of the penetration tallent that the scheme is predicated upon. I think that there are ways to mix in core run principles without overly sacrificing the penetration.

I think that this, at least in part, explains the enigmatic visits. Classic 3-technique type guys who are also a little stouter. Few classic noses, few classic 4-techniques. It's just in my mind the next evolution of the "tweener" positions Belichick has developed at drafted so well. Stout 3-techniques who are perfect for an adapted 33. The spread is everywhere, spread tallent is coming out almost exclusively, and with the current passing rules teams must adapt their defenses. I'm beginning to believe that Belichick will have heads being scratched this draft, only to fill the spots for the new NFL defense. Watch closely, I think we're seeing the birth of a new NFL buzzword/base defense.
 
I'm beginning to believe that Belichick will have heads being scratched this draft, only to fill the spots for the new NFL defense. Watch closely, I think we're seeing the birth of a new NFL buzzword/base defense.

Jays, Any predictions of who and for what reason? (i.e. Cody to have a 3 man line of Warren-Cody-Wilfork, very tough to run on and keeps the ILB's Mayo/Guyton clean, replace Guyton with ...etc.) I am very interested in your thoughts on this.
 
Last edited:
Nice post, Jays. Could this perhaps explain our interest in Alualu, who's played both the 34 and 43 in college, is ideally suited to be a quick, penetrating 3-tech, but also has the stoutness and experience to two-gap? Hm . . . if so, that just solidifies him on my draft board. Excellent.
 
Any predictions of who and for what reason? (i.e. Cody to have a 3 man line of Warren-Cody-Wilfork) I am very interested in your thoughts on this.

I'd look more towards guys like Torrell Troup or Arthur Jones. I think that given the lack of ideal traditional position fits, guys like these will go under the radar and become productive players. Torrell looks like a poor man's Wilfork or BJ Raji, while Jones appears to be a little more of a project. As it stands right now, I have Alaulu and Troup ranked 1 and 2 for this position, respectively.

I should also say that by no means am I the most educated person on prospects. I think that these guys could fit, and believe that the trend is real. I think that I have a pretty good handle on what each position needs and how to evaluate good players, but I am far less educated than others on here in regards to specific fits.
 
Nice post, Jays. Could this perhaps explain our interest in Alualu, who's played both the 34 and 43 in college, is ideally suited to be a quick, penetrating 3-tech, but also has the stoutness and experience to two-gap? Hm . . . if so, that just solidifies him on my draft board. Excellent.

Exactly. If they take him early, it will tell you exactly what team they are building.
 
"The Big Nickel" was invented by Fritz Shurmur in the late 80s/early 90s.



Source: The Ultimate Guide to NFL Defense

It has nothing to do with playing two huge nose tackles in the middle of the defensive line. You use a safety-linebacker hybrid who can defend the pass and also hold up against the run instead of a third cornerback.

Taylor Mays.
 
What needs to be identified is what kind of 33 they want to be. The modern 33 is quite different than the traditional big nickel, and the Patriots ran 33 last year. Fundamentally, the big nickel was a CYA coverage D. It was adequate against the pass and run, but excelled at neither. The 33 is a different beast all together. The majority of current anti-spread 33's are penetration based schemes. The most common of this is the 33 stack which aligns the backers and dline to facilitate penetration. It's a blitz defense up front. The safeties are aligned wide and are responsible for pursuit and outside contain. The pro (NE) 33 was a little different.

They took a lot of the old school Steelers zone blitz concepts and applied them. Like any other Belichick defense, this was predicated upon disguising coverage and blitzing. Many times the safety blitz read would be given in conjunction with a backer. The backer would check his rush and fall into the hot zone. Not to get too technical, but the corners would often play outside technique to encourage an inside hot. This is how most of the PD's the defense had happened.

Of course, these defenses are typically weak against well coached run blocking. The logical counter is to keep a normal or even heavy 34 dline on the field for this. The tradeoff, however is that you loose a lot of the penetration tallent that the scheme is predicated upon. I think that there are ways to mix in core run principles without overly sacrificing the penetration.

I think that this, at least in part, explains the enigmatic visits. Classic 3-technique type guys who are also a little stouter. Few classic noses, few classic 4-techniques. It's just in my mind the next evolution of the "tweener" positions Belichick has developed at drafted so well. Stout 3-techniques who are perfect for an adapted 33. The spread is everywhere, spread tallent is coming out almost exclusively, and with the current passing rules teams must adapt their defenses. I'm beginning to believe that Belichick will have heads being scratched this draft, only to fill the spots for the new NFL defense. Watch closely, I think we're seeing the birth of a new NFL buzzword/base defense.

Great analysis and goes along with my feeling that BB was just beginning his "mad scientist" run last season.

However, it seems to me that this defene requires two safeties who can both cover and tackle well. For our starters (from 2009), we have one very good coverage guy who can't tackle (Meriweather) and one great tackler who's awful in coverage (McGowan). Chung may be able to do both well, but it still sounds like we may be looking for another safety.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
MORSE: Looking At Patriots Wide Receiver Room and Gabe Jacas Mess
Key Questions Remain After Patriots Mini Camp: Little Margin For Error at Several Positions
Patriots News 06-14, Patriots Wrap Up Spring Workouts
Patriots Rookie Lomu Reveals “Weird” First Days at Right Tackle
Vrabel’s Goal For Christian Barmore in 2026: “Being able to finish”
MORSE: Day 3 of Patriots Mini-Camp
TRANSCRIPT: Mike Vrabel Press Conference 6/11
MORSE: Day 2 of Patriots Mini-Camp
TRANSCRIPT: Caleb Lomu Media Interview 6/10
TRANSCRIPT: Ashton Grant Press Conference 6/10
Back
Top