Another option: Wilson at 22

[Nonentity]

BTW - where did you get this number for tackles? That would be more tackles than 20 or so other safeties who played two to three times the 195 snaps that Chung did in 2009, and would project to about 150 tackles for 800 snaps (better by half than all the top safeties in the NFL), so it seems kind of unrealistic.

He did play in our nickel package quite a lot. Or perhaps the number accidentally includes special teams tackles as well?

 

[Zardnok]

He'll probably be gone, but many have posted mocks with Wilson still available.

If the #1 issue is improving our defense,

How about:
22 Wilson
44 Hughes
47 Alualu or Jones

53 and 119 would be available for a receiver and a tight end, with our without a trade.
=========================

Again, interjection from your friendly neighborhood Saints/LSU fan, Hughes will not make it past the Saints. Our "insiders" have said he is the player the Saints covet most coming out this year and he will most likely be our pick if available at 32.

As for Wilson, I personally prefer Kareem Jackson, but I am an SEC sort of guy. Jackson does not have the questions about run support that Wilson has and IMO is a better man-cover corner. He has also proven for the past three years that he can shut down top level competition.

 

[BritPat]

I have to say, I'm warming to the idea of a CB at #22 day by day. Wilson, McCourty, maybe even Haden if the GM's between #10 and us lose the plot.

I don't want a Safety though, as good as Earl Thomas is.

 

[captain stone]

We have three #2s also. If the BPA is a CB that is a fine place to go as we can easily have 3 or even 4 CB on the field at the same time in today's NFL. There will still be intriguing pass rushers in the mid second round.

I agree with both comments.
With Marshall & Holmes now in the division, I am now of the mind that another CB is needed with one of our top 4 picks. Old, injury-prone Shawn Springs or under-talented lil' Jonny Wilhite as our #3 is now unacceptable.

Best avail. CB
Best avail. WR
Best avail. OLB
Best avail. DE (or maybe LT if Vollmer is a future RT-only)
Maurkice Pouncey or Dez Bryant at 22?

The order will depend on the remaining pool of talent at each position when each of our picks is due. Regardless, a WR, CB & OLB Must be drafted by the end of the 2nd round, or 3rd if one can be acquired.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

I agree with both comments.
With Marshall & Holmes now in the division, I am now of the mind that another CB is needed with one of our top 4 picks. Old, injury-prone Shawn Springs or under-talented lil' Jonny Wilhite as our #3 is now unacceptable.

Best avail. CB
Best avail. WR
Best avail. OLB
Best avail. DE (or maybe LT if Vollmer is a future RT-only)
Maurkice Pouncey or Dez Bryant at 22?

The order will depend on the remaining pool of talent at each position when each of our picks is due. Regardless, a WR, CB & OLB Must be drafted by the end of the 2nd round, or 3rd if one can be acquired.

We're in agreement, an OLB, DE, WR, CB, in whatever order, is my preference. I really want to get a good WR in that can help this year and also be 100% ready for 2011 assuming Moss is gone.

 

[stinkypete]

I've always believed the pats have had a good secondary that has looked mediocre due to them having to cover for 5 seconds.

Pass rush please. Bodden-Butler is a great combo with Wilhite playing nickel.

Do you want another year of Wilhite at the nickel? He absolutely sucked in 2009. The nickel corner spot is an absolutely need for upgrade.

Every pass rush OLB with round 1 value has a significant enough flaw that it will likely prevent Belichick from drafting him. Graham is the only of the bunch who is adept playing both the pass and the run, and doubt he makes it past Atlanta. I'm all about trading down to late round 1, picking up a 3rd, and drafting whomever is left of the group of Wilson, McCourty, Jackson or Patrick Robinson.

 

[RodThePat]

Do you want another year of Wilhite at the nickel? He absolutely sucked in 2009. The nickel corner spot is an absolutely need for upgrade.

Every pass rush OLB with round 1 value has a significant enough flaw that it will likely prevent Belichick from drafting him. Graham is the only of the bunch who is adept playing both the pass and the run, and doubt he makes it past Atlanta. I'm all about trading down to late round 1, picking up a 3rd, and drafting whomever is left of the group of Wilson, McCourty, Jackson or Patrick Robinson.

Kindle plays the run extremely well. He is the only guy in this draft who could come in and be a 3 down OLB from day one.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

What the Patriots need is a good CB with great hands. They have not had such a guy since Ty Law although Assante Samuel was close. There is nothing a like secondary with sticky hands to derail a passing attack and change the fortunes of a game; who can forget Law interception in the Super Bowl against the Greatest Show on Turf.

Joe Haden had 8 picks in 2009. Makes one want to trade up eh?
Kyle Wilson: 3 picks in 2009 but 5 in 2008

 

[BritPat]

Kindle plays the run extremely well. He is the only guy in this draft who could come in and be a 3 down OLB from day one.

Kindle absolutely sucks against the run.

 

[MaineMan]

He did play in our nickel package quite a lot. Or perhaps the number accidentally includes special teams tackles as well?

Ahh! I bet you're correct. It probably does include ST tackles. Still, the total of 37 is about 50% more than what PFF is reporting. Maybe they're not including all the assists that the coaches gave him credit for?

 

[MaineMan]

What the Patriots need is a good CB with great hands. They have not had such a guy since Ty Law although Assante Samuel was close. There is nothing a like secondary with sticky hands to derail a passing attack and change the fortunes of a game; who can forget Law interception in the Super Bowl against the Greatest Show on Turf.

Joe Haden had 8 picks in 2009. Makes one want to trade up eh?
Kyle Wilson: 3 picks in 2009 but 5 in 2008

IIRC - Wilson had fewer picks in '09 because he had fewer opportunities - opposing QBs weren't throwing to his side as much. Happens to a lot of DBs after a "breakout" season of picks. Happened to Asante, probably will happen to Byrd.

 

[Marqui]

Kindle absolutely sucks against the run.

Blasphemy!

 

[MaineMan]

Kindle absolutely sucks against the run.

He also doesn't have the moves or sustained leg drive to be a consistently successful pass-rusher. He also doesn't change direction well. Of the top 17 OLB prospects, only Sapp had a worse 3-cone and only Bowman a worse shuttle.

First step? Only Muckleroy was slower at his 10yd split.

Seriously, I totally fail to understand what people see in the guy.

 

[BritPat]

Blasphemy!

Stick the tape on. "Liability" is the word that best describes him.

 

[Marqui]

He also doesn't have the moves or sustained leg drive to be a consistently successful pass-rusher. He also doesn't change direction well. Of the top 17 OLB prospects, only Sapp had a worse 3-cone and only Bowman a worse shuttle.

First step? Only Muckleroy was slower at his 10yd split.

Seriously, I totally fail to understand what people see in the guy.

He's one of the biggest traps in this draft. I feel bad for whatever sorry team spends a high pick on him.

Stick the tape on. "Liability" is the word that best describes him.

Absolutely. I was being sarcastic.

 

[BritPat]

He also doesn't have the moves or sustained leg drive to be a consistently successful pass-rusher. He also doesn't change direction well. Of the top 17 OLB prospects, only Sapp had a worse 3-cone and only Bowman a worse shuttle.

First step? Only Muckleroy was slower at his 10yd split.

Seriously, I totally fail to understand what people see in the guy.

Me neither. He does look faster on tape than his Combine numbers, so he might have shown up a bit of Haden-itis (although he sorted his numbers out), but those numbers are damning.

He has a slower shuttle time than half our O-line, and his 3 cone time was very poor for an alleged athletic freak.

Give me Te'o-Nesheim instead.

 

[MaineMan]

Me neither. He does look faster on tape than his Combine numbers, so he might have shown up a bit of Haden-itis (although he sorted his numbers out), but those numbers are damning.

He has a slower shuttle time than half our O-line, and his 3 cone time was very poor for an alleged athletic freak.

Give me Te'o-Nesheim instead.

Absolutely. He's one of the reasons I believe the Pats need to engineer a 3rd-round pick (or take him at #53), because he won't still be on the board by #119.

 

[mgteich]

Is it reasonable to count on
1) No injuries at corner.
2) Butler as aour #2 corner.
3) Wilhite as our nickel back.
4) Springs or Wheatley or whoever as our dime back
==========================

We really could use a corner.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Good cover and tackler, like Bodden, from what I've seen, and I like that better than a flashy gambler. This is the flipside of the pass-rush/secondary interdependence. If you've got guys (three corners, at least two safeties and an LB or two) who can often smother all the opposing QB's targets for an extra second or two, even a relatively slow pass-rush can get close enough to home to force some mistakes.

WRT Chung, I simply feel that his development last season was slower than I expected, not that it was non-existent. And I have to chalk at least part of (what I saw as) the "delay" (and perhaps Wheatley's regression) in depending on essentially a "rookie" DB coach (Boyer), in contrast to Capers in 2008 who seemed to do nearly as well with far less talent. That's why I mentioned that adding Corwin Brown to the staff this season may help.

At this point it appears that Chung is likely to be equal to McGowan in tackling ability and perhaps superior in pass rush. But what I haven't seen from him is coverage, though it would take very little for him to be superior to McGowan in that aspect. All that said, I think there's a good chance he's starting in 2010 alongside Meriweather. I just expected it to happen (and WISH it WOULD have happened) closer to mid-2009.

The coaching seems not to have been much of a factor, Collier was DB coach under Pees in 2007, Boyer was DB coach under Pees in 2009, Capers wasn't involved with either as a rookie.

NFL.com stats (which aren't the best, but will do) as rookies:
Meriweather: 16 games - 27 TT, 18 solo, 3 PD, 1 FF. (per PFF, 13 STs Tackles, 400 snaps)
Chung: 16 games - 37 TT, 25 solo, 2 sacks, 1 PD, 1 int. (per PFF 10 STs Tackles, 195 snaps)

 

[MaineMan]

The coaching seems not to have been much of a factor, Collier was DB coach under Pees in 2007, Boyer was DB coach under Pees in 2009, Capers wasn't involved with either as a rookie.

NFL.com stats (which aren't the best, but will do) as rookies:
Meriweather: 16 games - 27 TT, 18 solo, 3 PD, 1 FF. (per PFF, 13 STs Tackles, 400 snaps)
Chung: 16 games - 37 TT, 25 solo, 2 sacks, 1 PD, 1 int. (per PFF 10 STs Tackles, 195 snaps)

Wasn't invoking Capers WRT either Meriweather or Chung as a rookie. What I was saying is that Capers had less overall DB talent to work with in '08 than Boyer had in '09 and somewhat better performance. He also appeared to have rookies Wilhite and Wheatley on a better development track. So, I'm extrapolating that, had Capers stuck around for 2009, Wilhite and Wheatley might not have regressed in their sophomore seasons and Butler and Chung might have developed even faster than they did.

BTW - there's a HUGE difference in the tackle numbers for Chung between NFL.com and PFF. With 125 snaps played, even subtracting the ST tackles from the 37 TT, Chung's tackle rate would have far exceeded the best starters in the league.