Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB (from 1/31/2010)

[upstater1]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

Please provide the link to this poll. And when was this poll taken place?

And believe it or not, Manning's stats are gaudier than Brady's. Brady still owns more SB titles, which trump all of Manning's stats, but let's be real: Brady was on better teams and better coaching staffs than Manning earlier this decade.

Also, someone on here just did a breakdown of Manning's gaudy stats and they're not so gaudy compared to Brady's when you put them in context. One of the contexts is that Brady plays outdoors in cold weather for 1/3rd of the season, and the poster showed that Brady's stats go down in those games.

He also showed that Brady keeps up with Manning both in warm weather games and in dome games. An argument could be made that the stats are largely a product of conditions in which both QBs play. That thread was pretty convincing in that it showed Brady excelled in domes even though all dome games were away games for the Patriots whereas most of the dome games for the Colts were home games.

 

[condon84]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

I tend to disagree with this better team stuff because it detracts from what Brady actually accomplished. What you're saying is true of the first Super Bowl, but again, go back to the Carolina Super Bowl.

The Patriots defense gave up 325 passing yards, and big runs to Carolina. They gave up 29 points in 32 minutes. Brady had to rear back and throw a Super Bowl record 50 times. Antowain Smith was his RB, and the Patriots were not running the ball well. Carolina had a really good defense. So did the Patriots, but their top player in the D-backfield were hurt. Brady threw for 350 yards and broke the Super Bowl completion record.

This is why I think the Colts posters who are arguing that Brady had more help than Manning are taking too much away from Brady. Brady broke Super Bowl records and performed amazingly in the clutch.

I'm not denying all that. Brady is a first ballot HOF and will go down as one of the best ever even if he doesn't win another SB. He's a proven winner. We're lucky to have him and he's possibly going to be the best QB the Pats will ever have in my lifetime.

 

[condon84]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

....I'm done arguing for Manning. I'm gonna go take a shower now...

 

[PatsFan24]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

I am so sick of people arguing who is a better between Manning and Brady. Every year we hear it. I have had enough of the same argument every single season. I don't even care who is better anymore.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

Choking is throwing multiple INTs and acting panicked.

I fail to see how Brady was neutralized in a game the Patriots had a 2 score lead in. Were his numbers bad? No. Were they good? No. During the first half, the Patriots opened up the offense and got their points, and Brady looked good. Then they took the air out of the ball. That was a frigid day in Foxboro, so I would not take anything away from Brady for letting the defense win the game in zero degree Foxboro weather. The week before he set a record for accuracy.

In all of those games, you might say Brady had a bad game only against the Ravens this year. Maybe the Broncos game was a choke. The Patriots fell behind by a lot, and Brady rallied them to the point where they were going to win until that Bailey INT. You can call that a choke and the Ravens a choke. But generally, he has had a history of about 14 games where he has been clutch, and even in the 2007 Super Bowl he didn't hurt the team but he did lead them to a go ahead TD with under 2 minutes left.

He also heaved a 70 yard bomb to Moss that hit Moss on the hands with 30 seconds left.

Brady was bad in that SD game. 3 picks, c'mon. Maroney and the defense carried us in that game. Brady's overall performance from 2005 onwards in the playoffs is quite similar to Manning's career-wise with one superb performance against Jacksonville, some okay performances, and a couple stinkers. I love the guy no less than the rest of you but let's be fair to Manning for a minute... None of the teams he's ever played for has been as good as the 2003/2004 Patriot teams, not even close. The 2004 team especially which is looked at as one of the all time great teams in history. You look at the rest of the seasons where the Patriots and Colts were about even in terms of talent and Brady's postseason performances are not much better, if at all better than Manning.

When your team is not the level where we were in '03/'04, the QB tends to strain a bit and it forces them into mistakes no matter how great the QB is. What we've seen from Brady in the past 4-5 offseason is what Manning's been dealing with most of his career aside from maybe this season (we'll see how their defense holds up in the SB). IF Manning carries this team to a SB he has passed Brady IMO. Without him Indy is a 3 win team at best.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

Please provide the link to this poll. And when was this poll taken place?

And believe it or not, Manning's stats are gaudier than Brady's. Brady still owns more SB titles, which trump all of Manning's stats, but let's be real: Brady was on better teams and better coaching staffs than Manning earlier this decade.

And Manning has been on better team the 2nd half of this decade, and they probably had better coaching staffs because of continuity.
Whats your argument?

 

[Patspsycho]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

Really?? Add the stats in that arcticle with the stats from 2004 to now. See who still comes out on top in the end. Face it, Manning never has been and never will be as good as Brady. You Colts fans are living in a fantasy world. And I hope that is proven once again next week when the Colts lose to the Saints. Then this argument will be done... My point will be proven again.

It's too bad that next week, when that happens. He will slink away and never be heard from again.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

Brady was bad in that SD game. 3 picks, c'mon. Maroney and the defense carried us in that game. Brady's overall performance from 2005 onwards in the playoffs is quite similar to Manning's career-wise with one superb performance against Jacksonville, some okay performances, and a couple stinkers. I love the guy no less than the rest of you but let's be fair to Manning for a minute... None of the teams he's ever played for has been as good as the 2003/2004 Patriot teams, not even close. The 2004 team especially which is looked at as one of the all time great teams in history. You look at the rest of the seasons where the Patriots and Colts were about even in terms of talent and Brady's postseason performances are not much better, if at all better than Manning.

When your team is not the level where we were in '03/'04, the QB tends to strain a bit and it forces them into mistakes no matter how great the QB is. What we've seen from Brady in the past 4-5 offseason is what Manning's been dealing with most of his career aside from maybe this season (we'll see how their defense holds up in the SB). IF Manning carries this team to a SB he has passed Brady IMO. Without him Indy is a 3 win team at best.

Thats a lame argument. Since you want to end up at Manning is better you assume that Bradys teams were better. That is not a given.
The Colts were 14-0 until they gave up this year. How is that clearly not as good as any team Brady was on?
Why was the Patriot team in 2003 and 2004 better than the Colts for any reason other than Brady being better? Manning played horribly.
Now, when the Colts outplay the Patriots you say Manning is better becaue he teams are equal when the Patriots are 10-6 and the Colts are 14-0 plus.
How can Manning winning 2 pass Brady winning 3?

How do you explain the 2007 Colts being one and done when they were the #1 scoring defense in the NFL? That doesnt fit your theory.

How do you explain that the only time the Colts did win was when Manning played horribly in the post-season and his defense dominated and carried him?
I think without being carried by a supporting cast Manning has zero ad Brady has 3.

 

[Patspsycho]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

Nope. Not going to waste time trying to win over homers. No point.

You haven't brought up solid facts to back your point, and you haven't talked technical football at all, yet you're calling everyone an idiot.

Let's take a look at a popular myth- namely that Brady "owned" the early 2000's and Manning superseded him circa 2005 to "own" the rest of the decade.

Let's assume it's true.

So for 2000 to 2005, which Brady "owns" he's got 3 SB rings to show for it, 3 AFC titles and 2 SB mvp's.

Now, for 2005 to present, Brady has "declined" whereby Manning is "peaking".. thereby he should be taking advantage of this.

What does he have to show for it? ONE ring. That's it. One ring.

I'm not interested in regular season stats. Nobody remembers regular season stats. Like BB says, "stats are for losers" but you wouldn't know that since you're masquerading as a Patriots fan.. nobody in his right mind is a fan of the Boston Patriots- that same team that drafted a dead WR and once used the public address system to call a retired player out of the stands and pleaded with him to put on the uniform.

 

[LasVegasPatsFan]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

If someone were to set up a poll on Manning vs Brady on the 30 other team forums, who do you think would win the votes? I'm not sure most of you would be ready for a reality check.

 

[upstater1]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

Brady was bad in that SD game. 3 picks, c'mon. Maroney and the defense carried us in that game. Brady's overall performance from 2005 onwards in the playoffs is quite similar to Manning's career-wise with one superb performance against Jacksonville, some okay performances, and a couple stinkers. I love the guy no less than the rest of you but let's be fair to Manning for a minute... None of the teams he's ever played for has been as good as the 2003/2004 Patriot teams, not even close. The 2004 team especially which is looked at as one of the all time great teams in history. You look at the rest of the seasons where the Patriots and Colts were about even in terms of talent and Brady's postseason performances are not much better, if at all better than Manning.

When your team is not the level where we were in '03/'04, the QB tends to strain a bit and it forces them into mistakes no matter how great the QB is. What we've seen from Brady in the past 4-5 offseason is what Manning's been dealing with most of his career aside from maybe this season (we'll see how their defense holds up in the SB). IF Manning carries this team to a SB he has passed Brady IMO. Without him Indy is a 3 win team at best.

I already went over what Brady did in 03. I'm not sure what impressed you about the team -- especially the defense -- but in the Super Bowl, that was Brady that won it for New England. Not the running game, and not the defense.

So, in the big games, you can't say Brady had a better team. The Patriots D gave up 29 points in 32 minutes. And Brady saved their bacon. You said the QB strains a bit in such circumstances, but that's exactly what separated Brady and Manning back then. Brady didn't strain. He performed flawlessly, whereas in similar circumstances Manning wet the bed.

 

[upstater1]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

If someone were to set up a poll on Manning vs Brady on the 30 other team forums, who do you think would win the votes? I'm not sure most of you would be ready for a reality check.

If you asked 30 other teams if Belichick is a better coach than say Rex Ryan, he would lose hands down.

And what would that prove?

 

[LasVegasPatsFan]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

If you asked 30 other teams if Belichick is a better coach than say Rex Ryan, he would lose hands down.

And what would that prove?

So you saying that everyone would pick Manning just because they hate Brady??? Another excuse from Homerville

 

[Patspsycho]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

Is it possible to use the Ignore function on an entire thread?

I am the guilty party. It was just a slow day and I had nothing better to do except ignite another controversy.

It's a long wait until Feb. 27 so I thought I'd pass a little time playing with matches.

 

[upstater1]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

So you saying that everyone would pick Manning just because they hate Brady??? Another excuse from Homerville

Yes, they would.

People hate the Patriots.

I hate to break this to you.

Most fans think the only reasons the team won 3 Super Bowls are the tuck rule and spygate.

Am I really making shocking statements?

Fans around the league think Brady is a system-QB and they'll point to Matt Cassel in order to prove it.

It's silly relying on those same fans to prove anything.

And I 'd rather be a homer than a hater.

 

[Joker]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

Why Tom Brady Is the Best NFL QB? Yes Better Than Peyton Manning!!! | Bleacher Report

buries Manning once and for all....

"rediculous" you say?

 

[Joker]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

oh...and yes...I'm a homer...seems to offend certain so called "Patriot" fans, especially the ones with under 20/30 posts...well, I don't mean to offend this suddenly new appearance of "unbiased" "Patriot" fans but if you think I'm a homer Pats fan, you should see what I got as a homer Red Sox fan...

 

[Patjew]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

I am the guilty party. It was just a slow day and I had nothing better to do except ignite another controversy.

It's a long wait until Feb. 27 so I thought I'd pass a little time playing with matches.

Hey, I also got sucked in!

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

If someone were to set up a poll on Manning vs Brady on the 30 other team forums, who do you think would win the votes? I'm not sure most of you would be ready for a reality check.

It's a tossup which is the more idiotic group in need of a reality check, the fans of 31 other jealous teams or the frontrunner segment of this fan base who believe the worst thing you can be as a fan of the most dominant team of this decade is a homer...

Brady owned Manning for the first 4 years of his career. Manning was nothing but an empty stats generator for the first 8 years of his career. Tom and the NEP haven't won in the last 5 seasons, although they came close in 2 of those 5. Manning and the Colts have won once. Probably should have won twice has not the Steelers overcome the Colts and their 12th man in their own home... Manning was the ultimate records holder for one season, until Tom trumped him more recently in mid decline. Tom of course missed all of the following season. Only ONCE in Tom's "decline" or with Tom missing altogether was Manning able to capitalize, and he didn't play much of a part in that capitalization since Tom's old kicker dragged him there and two running backs and solid defense carried the day when he faced the mighty Rex Grossman led juggernaut that was the 2006 Bears, a team Tom handled masterfully in the regular season.

If Manning and the Colts win next Sunday the argument will be closer than ever. Until then it hasn't been that close. It will legitimately be back to a coin flip, which is where it was several years ago for no reason other than subjective analysis based on preference for style and draft status over substance and ultimate performance. Manning was always thought to be the better pure passer until Brady had equivalent weapons to pass to. Brady was always thought to be the better QB, because the position is about more than passing stats. Manning has bridged the gap of late by actually becoming a leader as opposed to merely an attention commanding stats generating figurehead.

At the end of the day the decision won't be final until both are retired. Manning has stated he wants to play until 2013 although I think he will be open to hanging on until close to 40. Brady has been pretty clear it is his intent to, so given the age difference I assume Tom will have two seasons after Manning has moved on in which to cap off his resume. History will decide which was the more dominant and why with perspective that most pundits and fans, who are frontrunners by nature, are incapable of mustering as long as either remains active.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

2001-2007 Tom Brady was the better QB

2008-2009 Peyton Manning was the better QB

2001-2007 Tom Brady was better than Manning ever was.

2009 Tom Brady was better than 2008 "MVP" Peyton Manning.

We don't know if Tom Brady will return to form.

In 2005, Big Ben beat the 1/2/3 seed on the road. That's more impressive than beating two very marginal 9-7 teams who have rookie and second year QB's.

Where is Big Ben in the equation?

Goober is the face of the league and everything is designed to make him succeed.

This fact produces the idiotic "group think" in the article.