Still Think Maroney, Pees have to go?

[emoney_33]

Highlights?? There are highlights of Vince Young out there.. means nothing.. Hell even Ryan Leaf has highlights..


The only highlight you should worry about is the one where he hesitated on a 1 yard run for a TD last week.. (the one i mentioned and a perfect example how he doesn't hit the hole)

Or the fact he has NEVER played a full season and got 1000 yards.. Or been a large part of a pass 1st offense..

So your proof of him being bad is a successful run? A run that ended up in a TD?

 

[emoney_33]

It doesn't say that he's better. It says that he has a better "batting average". It's generally a good idea to know what a stat means before you claim that it's invalid

Thank you

It's always funny to me that the guys who want to throw stats out are usually the only ones that make such bold claims based on stats. Synovia never suggested Maroney was a better RB than AP, yet mcsully and others jump right to that conclusion to try to throw the stat out.

Stats never lie, it's human interpretations of stats that can be very very wrong.

 

[Triumph]

Adrian Peterson is on pace to becoming one, or the greatest runningback of all time.

Maroney is on pace to becoming a JAG.

Hes already there.

But lets get real here? If Taylor was healthy there isnt any doubt that he would starting over Maroney.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

Thank you

It's always funny to me that the guys who want to throw stats out are usually the only ones that make such bold claims based on stats. Synovia never suggested Maroney was a better RB than AP, yet mcsully and others jump right to that conclusion to try to throw the stat out.

Stats never lie, it's human interpretations of stats that can be very very wrong.

Many of us simply questioned whether or not that particular stat proved anything regarding the quality of a RB since Maroney was ahead of most of the best RBs in the league. I think that is a pretty fair question to ask.

He's the one that threw the stats out there as if it proved something.

 

[Triumph]

Re: Maroney, Pees have to go

I think this is the underlying problem with this fanbase as presently constituted. Too many armchair fans of wanting to be right and not enough actual fans of wanting to see this team win.

The problem is that there too many Homers that are Pats fans. This board is loaded with them. They dont like the truth and probably still believe that Chad Jackson wasnt really a bust.

The Pats would be better without Maroney, but they are stuck with him until someone better comes along.

 

[Synovia]

Many of us simply questioned whether or not that particular stat proved anything regarding the quality of a RB since Maroney was ahead of most of the best RBs in the league. I think that is a pretty fair question to ask.

The stat means exactly what it means: maroney loses yardage less often than most other backs. Now, Peterson, loses yardage quite often, but he also busts a ton of long runs.

The stat was directly in response to someone saying "maroney loses yardage more often than not" which is an absolute falacy, as shown.


As to Maroney being above some of the best RBs in the league, what are you using to decide who are the best RBs in the league?

 

[Synovia]

No i'm not.. I'm describing the fact Maroneys best runs are in Shotgun..

I think I've seen Maroney on the field on about a grand total of 6 plays (prior to this year) in the shotgun. He almost never gets used in that formation. It's faulk's formation.

 

[mcsully]

I think I've seen Maroney on the field on about a grand total of 6 plays (prior to this year) in the shotgun. He almost never gets used in that formation. It's faulk's formation.

I agree Faulk is used on 3rd down and we see a lot of Shotgun with him next to brady..

But we run the shotgun on 1st and 2nd down quite a bit and Maroney gets the rock out of that formation.. I would tend to disagree with it only being Six plays, prior to this year. In 07, we ran the shotgun almost exclusively as our primary set. He got the ball more than 6 times in that formation..

 

[mcsully]

Many of us simply questioned whether or not that particular stat proved anything regarding the quality of a RB since Maroney was ahead of most of the best RBs in the league. I think that is a pretty fair question to ask.

He's the one that threw the stats out there as if it proved something.

I agree with you 100%..

 

[mcsully]

Marshawn Lynch, Ronnie Brown, Leon Washington, Joseph Addai, Maurice Jones Drew, Chris Johnson, Steve Slaton, Cedric Benson, Willie Parker, Ray Rice, LT,

That leaves The cleveland runningback, Darren Mcfadden, Buckhalter/Moreno and Larry Johnson worse then Maroney.
----------------------------------------------

Based on my response in another thread, this leaves him at about 12 out of 16 based on the starting backs.

Thank you for responding..And I tend to agree with your Rankings..


I love how these Maroney lovers skip such an easy question.. Because they know Maroney would fall so short and they'd have to admit their belief is incorrect..

 

[Synovia]

Thank you for responding..And I tend to agree with your Rankings..


I love how these Maroney lovers skip such an easy question.. Because they know Maroney would fall so short and they'd have to admit their belief is incorrect..

People skip the question because its a stupid question.


If you really think Cedric Benson is a good runningback, you don't understand football at all.

 

[SyN65]

There has been a load of guys on here saying these two have to go, I don't see them starting any threads lately so I thought I'd start one for them.

Maroney in 29 attempts has only rushed for 166 yards in his last two games and 2 touchdowns for a horrific 5.5 yards per carry.

And Pees defence has given up one score in those two games also.

Its just not good enough, now who's with me?

And both of those teams had a combined 0-12 record.

Maroney is still terrible.

 

[JackBauer]

And both of those teams had a combined 0-12 record.

Maroney is still terrible.

To quote Rep. Frank, "on which planet do you spend the majority of your time"?

 

[JackBauer]

If you really think Cedric Benson is a good runningback, you don't understand football at all.

And Marshawn Lynch? Really?

 

[mcsully]

People skip the question because its a stupid question.


If you really think Cedric Benson is a good runningback, you don't understand football at all.

Clearly the level of Football knowledge here is well below what I initially thought..And to continue further with this conversation will go no where.

I stand by my belief that Maroney has been a disappointment and he's one of the worst 1st round picks BB has made since being with the PATS..

 

[Synovia]

I stand by my belief that Maroney has been a disappointment and he's one of the worst 1st round picks BB has made since being with the PATS..

To quote an awesome post elsewhere by applestrudle, basically, your expectations are just out of whack.

This seems to be the crux of the naysayers arguments, so of course we should ask the question: what do you expect from a first round running back? We'll go ahead and ignore draft position for now, but we should acknowledge that it makes a huge difference. A top 10 back is expected to perform better than a back drafted in the lower third of the round.

From the 1999 to the 2009 draft, 34 running backs have been drafted in the first round. How does Maroney compare? It depends on how you slice it. His YPC is better than Deuce McAlister, Jamal Lewis, Joseph Addai, Ricky Williams, Thomas Jones, Edgerrin James, Darren McFadden, Kevin Jones, Willis McGahee, Marshawn Lynch, and 9 other players. That puts him at 15/34. So from a YPC perspective he's average for a first rounder.

His totals are on the low side, e.g., total carries and total yards. But this can be explained by how he is used. E.g., he is part of a rotation and the Pats pass more than they run lately. So rather than totals we should emphasize things like rates and averages as they tell us what happens when he does get the ball.

So what is his TD rate? He scores on 3.12% of his carries, good for 17/34. Not great, but average for a first round back. His receiving TDs rate is 3.13%, good for 25/34. That's definitely on the low side, but also not a primary expectation of a running back (not to mention that it's certainly not one of the complaints given by members of this board).

How about his yards per reception? Maroney averages 10.81 yards per catch, good for 2/34. That's a stellar number. He's definitely overperforming in that area.

How about total fumbles and fumble rate? Maroney's only fumbled once and lost that fumble. His fumble rate is .22% (that's correct, there's no decimal error there), good for 1/34. A stellar number, and something this team certainly values. Less important is his fumbles lost rate, which is also .22%, which ties him for 2/34. The guys than him or tied with him for fumbles lost rate are rookies.

So what makes a good first rounder? Being at least average compared to other first rounders should be a fair criteria, and in all meaningful categories except maybe one it seems like Maroney is either average or better than average and sometimes stellar when measured against other first round running backs drafted in the last 10 years. When he gets the ball, he's pretty good.

Here are the numbers/ranks:

Total Carries Rank
449 = 24/34

Total Yards Rank
1938 = 23/34

YPC Rank
4.32 = 15/34

Total Rushing TDs Rank
14 = 22/34

Rushing TD Rate Rank
3.12% = 17/34

Number Receptions Rank
32 = 27/34

Total Reception Yards Rank
346 = 23/34

Yards Per Reception Rank
10.81 = 2/34

Total Receiving TDs Rank
1 = 22/34

Receiving Touchdowns Rate Rank
3.13% = 25/34

Total Fumbles Rank
1 = 1T/34

Fumble Rate Rank
.22% = 1/34

Total Fumbles Lost Rank
1 = 2T/34

Fumbles Lost Rate
.22% = 2/34

I'll try and upload the spreadsheet I used to assemble the data and post a link. If anybody spots any errors (I kind of breezed through this this morning) please let me know. All the stats are from NFL.com or extrapolated from those stats.

 

[mcsully]

To quote an awesome post elsewhere by applestrudle, basically, your expectations are just out of whack.

Two important facts I pulled from your copy and paste from another..

Total Carries Rank
449 = 24/34

Total Yards Rank
1938 = 23/34

Why does LM not get the ball more? Its not like we're playing from behind..

LM = 1st round pick, never has played 16 games and reach 1000 yards..

Corey Dillion = 2nd round pick, reached over 1600 yards in the same system.


My expectations are.. Our rate of return isn't there with LM..



I've never said he doesn't have the tools.. My problem with him is he hesitates hitting the hole.. Fact is prior to Taylor getting hurt, he was starting over LM.. Taylor got the ball 45 times in 4 games. Where LM in 7 games only got it 61 times. Taylor has more touches per average and the level of competition was higher..

 

[Synovia]

Two important facts I pulled from your copy and paste from another..

Total Carries Rank
449 = 24/34

Total Yards Rank
1938 = 23/34

Why does LM not get the ball more? Its not like we're playing from behind..
.

Because he missed a season due to injury, and anyways, 24/34 is still in the middle third of first round picks...IE, average.

 

[Synovia]

I've never said he doesn't have the tools.. My problem with him is he hesitates hitting the hole.. Fact is prior to Taylor getting hurt, he was starting over LM.. Taylor got the ball 45 times in 4 games. Where LM in 7 games only got it 61 times.

Fact is, thats wrong.

 

[mcsully]

Fact is, thats wrong.

hahah.. Yes Taylor only STARTED one game.. But again you're splitting hairs.. During the time of Taylor being healthy, he averaged more touches than LM
Since Taylors injury, in the past 3 weeks, LM touches have doubled.. Only because of Taylor going down..

Please don't tell me you think LM is better than Taylor.. or will ever be..