Idle thoughts...

[insidenation]

Re: Idle thoughts....

nice to have you back dudes, more idle thoughts again

 

[Metaphors]

Re: Idle thoughts....

1. I can't understand the threads where people are trying to figure out if we are still in position to get a bye or not. For God's sake, we aren't even half way through the season. Those threads are MEANINGLESS. No one knows how the rest of the season will go. We can wind up 14-2....or NOT. The same can be said of the rest of league. If the Oakland and Bill wins can teach us ANYTHING....you cannot count on ANY win in the NFL...or loss.

That seems a bit harsh. People generally like to speculate. When done with critical thinking and insight, it can also be pretty interesting. I will agree that being definitive about future outcomes seems a little silly.

4. I know there has been a thread about our Safety play, but I can't help myself. We are getting the best safety play we have seen in the BB era. Though Rodney was the BEST S to play, the combination of McGowan and Merriweather is. IMHO. better than Wilson and Harrison. My only concern here is how long McGowan can survive his reckless style. Beyond that, with Chung's development and Sanders' (when healthy) steady play, we have DEPTH, positional flexibility, as well as talent in our safety unit. It will only get better as the season wears on.

Totally agree and you want your safety play to be top notch heading into the playoffs. Strong play up the middle (Wilfork, Mayo, Meriweather, McGowan) doesn't guarantee success, but it sure as heck reduces the likelihood of failure.

5. IMHO, Matt Light was performing at a VERY high level before his injury. He STONED John Abrahams, and WAS stoning EDummerville before he got hurt. Supposedly these are just the kind of DE's who give him trouble, but somehow they DIDN'T. Yes it is nice to see Volmer do well in his debut on the left side, but I think we should all take that giant step back to reality and understand that the Seabass era is still a ways away. Let me see him swallow Dwight Freeney up in a Dome setting before I anoint him the second coming of Jackie Slater. Most OTs will look good playing against DEs in the snow. The fact is that when he gets healthy, Matt Light will be the starting LT for the Pats...and that will be for the BEST.

Agree to a point but that's about it. Light is still a solid player who fits very well with this line and this offense. However, Light has made 2 critical mistakes that resulted in 2 TDs and almost turned 2 home wins into crushing losses. These were mental/mechanics, not just getting beat physically.

Also, Abraham and Dummerville are not the speed types that give Light fits. Freeney, Suggs, Merriman (pre roids withdrawl) were problematic. That is why I think the Pats are looking for long-armed guys like Vollmer. Britt and O'Callaghan didn't have the footwork needed to excel. If Vollmer does, he can just escort speed guys upfield while still guarding against a spin move.

In the same vein, Nick Kazcur CONTINUES to be undervalued by fans. We continue to ignore the fact that he is going to be here for the long run. Fans might not value him, but the coaching staff CLEARLY does. Maybe its time to give them some credit....and Nick too.

Kazcur was frustrating because he would have one complete whiff a game that would get Brady killed. Seemed to be a problem with concentration which is always scary come playoff time. Fortunately he seemed to be more consistent last year (and so far this year). That likely earned him his extension and spot on the right side for the next few years.

The real story is how the Pats might start to use the OL talent they have on down the road. Mark Levoir is also someone who has to be reckoned with. Maybe as Seabass develops (as in NEXT year) either Light or Kazcur moves to RG to replace the oft injured Steve Neal, who I don't think will be be back next year. I remember years ago reading a scouting report that opined that while Matt Light can be a good LT (and he has been), he had the potential to be an All Pro G. It will be interesting to see how it pans out. That being said, I believe that nothing will drastically change in the OL rotation THIS YEAR

I really have no clue how this is going to play out. With Vollmer getting productive snaps and Levoir coming back, finding OL reps among good players is a nice problem to have. Add in the probable OT depth in the 2010 draft and the Pats have plenty of options.

11. Finally as one of those who was singing the praises of Ron Brace all through training camp, his lack of playing time this late into the season, has to be troubling. I thought he'd at least be a key factor on GL and short yardage D, but Pryor has seemingly flown right by him on the depth chart.

I didn't like Brace that early in the draft, but I understand it. He needed work on his technique coming out of BC (like most linemen do) and apparently he didn't take full advantage of the opportunities in camp. Hopefully he realizes the opportunity he has and steps up.

While it is hard to understand Belichick's intentions, I would imagine that the players who work their way onto the field love this guy. For every Brace, Springs or Galloway, there is a Pryor, McGowan or Edelman. The culture in the locker room didn't happen by accident or magic.

 

[LuRkeR1978]

Re: Idle thoughts....

Ken...are you the same person from the alt. newsgroup that went as kenthaler?

 

[patfanken]

Re: Idle thoughts....

Ken...are you the same person from the alt. newsgroup that went as kenthaler?

Nope, afraid not

 

[AzPatsFan]

Re: Idle thoughts....

PFKen...one minor point...I sincerely hope you took a long hot shower and deloused yourself good before posting here....you never know what you're gonna pick up at that Jets Insider board.

But its so much fun to go to the GangGreen and Insiders boards to observe the activity. Its like observing a disturbed hive as the insects flit about.

Now they can't decide whether to shoot the OC, who is obviously a total fool and idiot. Who was supposed to be the only genius one of the holdover coaches worth a powders damn in the preseason.

Or maybe, just maybe, the scouting reports that they ignored, were correct. The "Sanchize" really is a short, weak-armed, uncoachable, QB from SoCal, who wouldn't listen to his Coach's guidance that he wasn't ready to play in the NFL.

After all what does Pete Carroll know, said the Sanchize. Its not like his Coach doesn't have some pro background, and he was just trying to thwart his turning pro, for his own college team's good. BTW, hasn't USC just grabbed another Manchurian candidate QB from the end of their bench, who they are booming for the next Heisman?

After years of criticizing Opey Pennington, they dumped him. Dumping him for not even a bag of Jack's magical beanstalk beans, and worshiped the coming of the Favre Methuselah. Now they drafted a QB, just as incapable of playing in the winds of the Meadowlands. Their F. O. Brain-drain went out and got a duplicate noodle arm, except one WITHOUT a brain in his head.

Oh the instantaneous second guessing and backbiting is pouring forth in great gushes.

 

[smg93]

Re: Idle thoughts....

Ken, great post as usual. Well thought out and reasoned. Just a comment on Brace though, as I mentioned on another thread, BB has always said that new players to new england, especially rookies have very unique and personal timetables on how quickly they can grasp their role on the team. For now, I'm not ready to get worried about him yet. I think he just needs some time not just learning the playbook but also understaning how it is to be a professional football player. I'm sure that's not an easy transition for everyone coming from college into the real world.

 

[patfanken]

Re: Idle thoughts....

Ken, great post as usual. Well thought out and reasoned. Just a comment on Brace though, as I mentioned on another thread, BB has always said that new players to new england, especially rookies have very unique and personal timetables on how quickly they can grasp their role on the team. For now, I'm not ready to get worried about him yet. I think he just needs some time not just learning the playbook but also understaning how it is to be a professional football player. I'm sure that's not an easy transition for everyone coming from college into the real world.

Sorry SMG, but I don't buy it....though I hope the hell its true. Maybe Brace hasn't grasped the entirety of his principle defensive responsibilities, that would be understandable. However the fact that he can't break into the top 45 is disappointing. This was the guy we took instead of Maleugga or Barwin. I expected more for my interest. He looked pretty good in preseason drills....and he was getting a lot of play...often with the first D. I'm worried that his declined has coincided with the start of actual games, both in preseason and during the season.

I saw a place for him at LEAST on the GL, where the Pats can sometimes be a little light in the pants along the DL...especially now that Seymour is gone. The fact that he hasn't been able to do even THAT is troubling to me. Its not earth shattering, but still troubling.

 

[pencilneckgeek]

I think Brace's inactivity says more about how mature Pryor's technique is and the unusual good health of our DLmen than Brace's shortcomings. It's not unusual for rookies to sit and watch more on the Pats than elsewhere. It would be nice if he could provide something, but if he's only slightly behind Pryor, he's not going to get on the active list unless somebody goes down. There's simply not enough data to evaluate him. If he's not quite where Pryor is, but has his same upside, he could be quite the player next year. Those of us who aren't let coaches and therefore not at practice won't get a read on Brace until training camp 2010, unless one of our fine DLmen goes down.

 

[smg93]

Re: Idle thoughts....

I saw a place for him at LEAST on the GL, where the Pats can sometimes be a little light in the pants along the DL...especially now that Seymour is gone. The fact that he hasn't been able to do even THAT is troubling to me. Its not earth shattering, but still troubling.

Good point, hard to argue with that. Let's both hope it's a simple case of immaturity that he'll get over fairly quickly.

I know it's an excuse but if I was a 22 year old who was given a few million right out of college, I know that no matter how disciplined I was, there would be certain points in time I'd be a bit immature.

 

[SEA_Pat]

Re: Idle thoughts....

Nope, afraid not

Afraid NOT to be Kent Thaler? I'd be the opposite! Must be hard to wake up one day and realize just how wrong you've been for how many years.

Does he post here? If so, hope he's well.

Jeffrey

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: Idle thoughts....

Afraid NOT to be Kent Thaler? I'd be the opposite! Must be hard to wake up one day and realize just how wrong you've been for how many years.

Does he post here? If so, hope he's well.

Jeffrey

I remember ol Kent Thaler from USENET Patriots newsgroup days in the early to mid 90s. My favorite sport was rebutting his ten or so 'thoughts' (what a misnomer) of the week. Hilarity ensued.

 

[SEA_Pat]

Re: Idle thoughts....

I remember ol Kent Thaler from USENET Patriots newsgroup days in the early to mid 90s. My favorite sport was rebutting his ten or so 'thoughts' (what a misnomer) of the week. Hilarity ensued.

Yeah, usenet. Tollbooth Bobby Jensen and the Jets trolls and all. Ironically, turns out he was spot on with Bobby Grier and the Pats personnel follies, who'd 'a thunk it? I see Chris in Sunnyvale here, and a few others, but it's a lot harder to post when the level of expertise is so much higher and the trolls are mostly steered away by the bouncers. Much of the discussion was OT (which could be quite good some of the time). Gawd, what old farts we are.

Jeffrey

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: Idle thoughts....

Yeah, usenet. Tollbooth Bobby Jensen and the Jets trolls and all. Ironically, turns out he was spot on with Bobby Grier and the Pats personnel follies, who'd 'a thunk it? I see Chris in Sunnyvale here, and a few others, but it's a lot harder to post when the level of expertise is so much higher and the trolls are mostly steered away by the bouncers. Much of the discussion was OT (which could be quite good some of the time). Gawd, what old farts we are.

Jeffrey

I loved USENET and all kidding aside enjoyed Kent's weekly rants. The level of real football information is higher here, despite the background noise but I miss the humorous opposing fans. I'm sad that Ian (not without good reason) banned Aqua4Evah from PatsFans who was another continuing source of hilarity as an over the top Phins fan as impervious to fact as a duck's back to rain.

'Tollbooth' Bob Jenson, JETS rump swab extraodinaire. Remember the "Bowling Ball With Knives" the Jets drafted #1? Even the Jets fans finally turned on their cheerleader and drove him away.

 

[borg]

Re: Idle thoughts....

I loved USENET and all kidding aside enjoyed Kent's weekly rants. The level of real football information is higher here, despite the background noise but I miss the humorous opposing fans. I'm sad that Ian (not without good reason) banned Aqua4Evah from PatsFans who was another continuing source of hilarity as an over the top Phins fan as impervious to fact as a duck's back to rain.

'Tollbooth' Bob Jenson, JETS rump swab extraodinaire. Remember the "Bowling Ball With Knives" the Jets drafted #1? Even the Jets fans finally turned on their cheerleader and drove him away.

Check out Jets Insider.com, the loyal Jets fans are so phobic about the Patriots and pats fans that they have mental breakdowns daily...I enjoy rubbernecking at a bloody wreck...and you will too.

 

[Bostonian1962]

Two minor comments. First, very good post indeed.

1. It's too early to know if Brace will be a player or not. If not, it may end up being a case of BB reaching for a Sun Blocker, because of the situation with Wolfolk. If he does become a player, many of us can eat our crow and be glad that we did.

2. Has anybody else noticed that Kaczur has done more than hold his own. He has improved as much as any player on the team, and to me, has proven that off season hard work will pay off. I've isolated him (as much as one can on TIVO) some this year, and the man has been fantastic. More even than I think he is getting credit for (I know, never end the sentence in a preposition).

 

[RobertWeathers]

Two minor comments. First, very good post indeed.

1. It's too early to know if Brace will be a player or not. If not, it may end up being a case of BB reaching for a Sun Blocker, because of the situation with Wolfolk. If he does become a player, many of us can eat our crow and be glad that we did.

2. Has anybody else noticed that Kaczur has done more than hold his own. He has improved as much as any player on the team, and to me, has proven that off season hard work will pay off. I've isolated him (as much as one can on TIVO) some this year, and the man has been fantastic. More even than I think he is getting credit for (I know, never end the sentence in a preposition).

I have no issue with Kazur. Based on the fact the team signed him to an extension, neither does the team.

 

[JMarr]

2. Has anybody else noticed that Kaczur has done more than hold his own. He has improved as much as any player on the team, and to me, has proven that off season hard work will pay off. I've isolated him (as much as one can on TIVO) some this year, and the man has been fantastic. More even than I think he is getting credit for (I know, never end the sentence in a preposition).

Yeah I've been focusing on Kaczur alot more this year simply because he was generally regarded as the weak link in the OL the past couple of years.
He's looked downright nasty at times--totally a pleasant surpise so far. He must have really stepped it up this offseason. He's still young and hopefully he stays healthy and solidifies the RT position for a long time to come.

 

[D-cleater]

Kaczur has been playing well. I would like to see the same consistency from Mankins, who looks great on some plays and like a turnstile on others (see the V Holliday sack in the Denver game).

In response to Ken's original post:

I didn't read the Bodden post, but saying that he is consistently the best CB post Samuel isn't saying much . That may only be so because Butler has not yet been given a chance to start full time. Further, no one here has the authority or insight to say that Bodden and Springs will continue to be the starting corners. Show me a play where Butler has looked worse than either Bodden or Springs did in the Denver game and I'll gladly concede this point. I for one am ready to let Butler sink or swim. There is always Bodden and Springs to fall back to.

Next point that bears discussion is your take that we are getting the best safety play in the BB era. I immediately went to compare this year's stats of McGowan/Meriweather against 2003 and 2004's Harrison/wilson, and sure enough, this year's tandem compares favorably in tackles and passes defended, but they are not getting any INT's. My problem is that the safeties are still giving up way too many 3rd downs,especially in the second half. I'm not sure if this is due to coaching or scheme, but recall Harrison & Wilson would make receivers pay for going across the middle on third down. I'd even harken back to Milloy/Jones in 2001. Granted, the pass rush has declined significantly in the past two seasons, and the front seven overall is not as dominating as it was in 2003/2004, which needs to be factored in as well.

I do think McGowan is a HUGE upgrade over Sanders, especially against the run. I pray for his continued health and success.

 

[patfanken]

Yeah I've been focusing on Kaczur alot more this year simply because he was generally regarded as the weak link in the OL the past couple of years.
He's looked downright nasty at times--totally a pleasant surpise so far. He must have really stepped it up this offseason. He's still young and hopefully he stays healthy and solidifies the RT position for a long time to come.

Kaczur has been among the whipping boys on the offense, along with Light, Moroney, and Watson and is probably the LEAST guilty.

I recall being directed to a site where they graded EVERY player on the OL in 2008. Clicking to the Pats OL, I was surprised to find that Kaczur grade the 3rd best of the Pats OL, only behind Mankins, and Neal (who only played about 10 games that season) at about 84%. Also it was interesting to find that the Pats were one of 2 OLs in the entire league that had all 5 guys graded at over 80%.

If you remember that was the year that the Pats had something like 47 sacks allowed. Evidently we can infer that many were deemed NOT to be the fault of the OL...even though they got the blame.

The point I'm trying to make is that often, as fans, we overvalue our players. And for those who sneak into our doghouses, we tend to undervalue.

I think we should understand that the Pats are going to drop back and pass 30-40 times a game, and for the great MAJORITY of those times, the OL is going to win the battle. But we also have to remember that they are paying the OTHER guys millions of dollars TOO. I can't understand how we can get so down on any of these players when they are winning the battle about 95% of the time. Especially when sometimes the battle is lost because of a good scheme, great downfield coverage, a missed block by a RB or TE, or a QB who can't make up his mind on where to throw the ball.

I think we should instead be amazed by how often the OL does the job in protecting Brady. Given the kind of athletes they are facing, I know I am.

 

[patfanken]

Kaczur has been playing well. I would like to see the same consistency from Mankins, who looks great on some plays and like a turnstile on others (see the V Holliday sack in the Denver game).

In response to Ken's original post:

I didn't read the Bodden post, but saying that he is consistently the best CB post Samuel isn't saying much . That may only be so because Butler has not yet been given a chance to start full time. Further, no one here has the authority or insight to say that Bodden and Springs will continue to be the starting corners. Show me a play where Butler has looked worse than either Bodden or Springs did in the Denver game and I'll gladly concede this point. I for one am ready to let Butler sink or swim. There is always Bodden and Springs to fall back to.

Next point that bears discussion is your take that we are getting the best safety play in the BB era. I immediately went to compare this year's stats of McGowan/Meriweather against 2003 and 2004's Harrison/wilson, and sure enough, this year's tandem compares favorably in tackles and passes defended, but they are not getting any INT's. My problem is that the safeties are still giving up way too many 3rd downs,especially in the second half. I'm not sure if this is due to coaching or scheme, but recall Harrison & Wilson would make receivers pay for going across the middle on third down. I'd even harken back to Milloy/Jones in 2001. Granted, the pass rush has declined significantly in the past two seasons, and the front seven overall is not as dominating as it was in 2003/2004, which needs to be factored in as well.

I do think McGowan is a HUGE upgrade over Sanders, especially against the run. I pray for his continued health and success.

Interesting points. In reference to Samuel, I noticed this quote from a column referencinng the Eagles/Raiders game. We can file this under Lobel's "why can't we get guys like that" line......NOT!!!!

"... He did well to continually connect with TE Zach Miller, whom Eagles CB Asante Samuel did not appear to want anything to do with on Miller's 86-yard TD catch-and-run. Samuel had a clear shot and flat out whiffed in the open field, failing to even connect as Miller sidestepped the undersized, timid corner."

As far as Boddin. I have watch him closely during camp and throughout this season, and I have RARELY found him to be lacking. Even on completed passes he is generally right there, instead of the 5 yd cushions we saw so often last season. He has tackled well, and been a presence. Has he looked bad on isolated plays? I'm sure he has...so has every other player.

If BB has a problem with him, and I doubt he has. Its perhaps because of mental mistakes, but that's only speculation. Believe me I like Butler as much as the next guy. He will eventually be a big time CB in this league, but right now I'd like him to be used in "spots", where he can utilize his athletic gifts, without having to worry about where he is supposed to be.