How Critical Are Aiken, Slater and Ventrone

[alvinnf]

I have Slater, Aiken, Ventrone, the 3rd QB, the 5th RB/FB/HB competing for three roster spots (see below for my current guess at a roster). How necessary are these three given the following special teamers who are would make the roster as of now? I would certainly be fine with only one of Aiken, Slater, and Ventrone makes the roster.

Woods
Guyton
Banta-Cain
Redd
Alexander (likely to be replaced by a free agent)
Wilhite
Butler
Chung
Williams

=========================
OFFENSE (25)
QB (3) Brady, O'Connell, Hoyer/Gutierrez
RB (5) Taylor, Faulk, Morris, Maroney, BJGE
WR (5) Moss, Welker, Galloway, Lewis, Slater/Aiken/Ventrone
TE (3) Watson, Baker, Smith
OT (4) Light, Kaczur, LeVoir, Vollmer
OG/C (5) Mankins, Koppen, Neal, Hochstein/Johnson, Ohrnberger

Well if your going to only take one, Sam Aiken has the track record. However, Ventrone probably has the boards 'Barwinism' and potentiall to be the next Izzo. The problem with Ventrone is he does'nt distinctly fit into one position for depth purposes. But, I guess your really not relying on him to be a true back up, but it would be nice to find a Special teams ace whom is a true legit positional backup. Give some names of guys that did both, Steve Tasker come to mind, and Bill Bates. Who else?

 

[mgteich]

good analysis, except that Greg Lewis is the favorite for #4 receiver

Aiken is "in". He is the 4th receiver. He is valuable on ST.

Ventrone is obviously a BB fav. He will be givent he chance to make the 53, but if the new bodies are competent, he might have a harder time. Look for him in Denver or Cleveland. Slater should make the team. He had a few bad plays, but who's to say how much he shines in practice ? Maybe he's just a few plays away from becoming a dynamo (personally, I don't think he's going to bust out, but I'm not ready to declare him a useless part).

 

[mgteich]

Ciurciu is not more experienced that Aiken. They entered the league at the same time, and Aiken has more productive on special teams.

Posters are acting like they WANT to use special team roster spots on players who can't do anything else.

I have Ciurciu being a leading candidate to fill Izzo's role...he's the most experienced of the primary special teamers and is one of the few who has experience working with coach Scott O'Brien.

 

[efin98]

Ciurciu is not more experienced that Aiken. They entered the league at the same time, and Aiken has more productive on special teams.

Has Aiken played under O'Brien before? No, he has not. To me that gives Ciurciu a bit of an edge in leadership as he's already familiar with what will be implemented.

Posters are acting like they WANT to use special team roster spots on players who can't do anything else.

Why strengthen a weak spot to bolster the reserves at already stronger spots...

 

[mgteich]

You may be correct. Ciurciu may have been brought in to help implement any changes in system. For right now, I have penciled in Ciurciu at the #4 ILB spot, Izzo's old job, and Aiken as a backup WR as he was last year. There is clearly room for both these top special teamers.

Has Aiken played under O'Brien before? To me that gives him a bit of an edge in leadership as he's already familiar with what will be implemented.

 

[Pats726]

We're pretty lucky fans... look at us all up in arms about who'll be ST capt ! TFB is coming back. Isn't that enough ?

Ventrone will have a hard go in training camp with the new additions. But he beat out highly rated players before. BB doesn't really care about highly rated. He wants to win.

Wasn't my question...but I think ST captain IS important...no?? I know how fans are and when there is a breakdown on special teams..Brady or no Brady..this board will be filled with finger pointing and other negatives. I'm not up in arms..but it is a legitimate question..Ventrone may have a hard time..but he seems to have intangibles that BB likes.

 

[p8ryts]

they are not critical at all. Their only value is on punt and kickoff coverage. Losing Ventrone against the Jets cost us a Leon Washington kickoff return but that is the only value I see here. Maybe Aiken has some leadership value but in two years he hasn't made much of a difference that I can see between injuries and playing time..

 

[Mainefan]

Here's one vote for Ventrone. The kid has speed, good hands and guts. If Welker ever went down, he'd be a good slot candidate.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

Ventrone is very versatile, and someone once told me that BB likes that. Slater, and Aiken are ST, as of now, and nothing more. Maybe Slater shows us something during preseason, but as of right now, the only person that matters to me is Ventrone

 

[Pats726]

Maybe Aiken has some leadership value but in two years he hasn't made much of a difference that I can see between injuries and playing time..

Aiken has only been with the team a year...so...

 

[AzPatsFan]

Who is taking over the ST captain role?? THAT I think could be a weakness...LI saw it all over the years and that is something they will lack...Ciurciu?? Is he even a possible for that...with 6 years exp...I think it may be someone like him or Aiken who will get the position..I think all 3 could stick...lots of intangibles here. Aiken I think does because he's easily at this point the 5th WR and a really sure 3rd down tall receiver. Slater is moe of a question mark than Ventrone. VEntrone is smart and will do anything the team needs. Slater is a bit quicker, faster, BUT...?? Time will tell I think these players have the inside track..BUT if there are stronger ST players..and smarter ones...then...let the better ones get the spot on the 53.

When the Patriots brought Akins in, he was the captain of the good Bill STs. I always thought that they thought Izzo was getting old, and Aikens was the next generation ST leader...

 

[farn]

Wasn't my question...but I think ST captain IS important...no?? I know how fans are and when there is a breakdown on special teams..Brady or no Brady..this board will be filled with finger pointing and other negatives. I'm not up in arms..but it is a legitimate question..Ventrone may have a hard time..but he seems to have intangibles that BB likes.

Not a legitimate question. STs will sometimes decide games. ST capt : who cares ? Will the team go down the tubes now that longtime capt Izzo's LEADERSHIP is gone ? Nope. Find 11 guys to play solid ST and let the winning begin. I really, really think ST capt (or most capts, actually) is more for show than actual production.

Everyone on the squad should be there to do their job and win games. I don't think ST capt makes that much difference. So, to answer the question : I ask another - why do we care about the ST capt ?

 

[Ryan]

I don't think any of them are critical at all. Would it be nice if they all contributed? Yes. But are they critical? No, not at all.

 

[Mark Morse]

Critical ??? There is a void to be filled and that is ST Captain.

Slater should be listed under Saftey not WR. His 13 tackles on ST's last year was second on the team.

Ventrone can play both WR and Safety adequately. With the new rules against using the wedge, you just might need a player like Ventrone.

Aiken has been a good ST, but his role as 4th WR has vanished with the trade for Greg Lewis. Lewis could also return KO which reduces the role of Slater (fast but not very instinctive return man).

I'd say Ventrone #1, Slater #2 and Aiken #3

 

[Pats726]

Not a legitimate question. STs will sometimes decide games. ST capt : who cares ? Will the team go down the tubes now that longtime capt Izzo's LEADERSHIP is gone ? Nope. Find 11 guys to play solid ST and let the winning begin. I really, really think ST capt (or most capts, actually) is more for show than actual production.

Everyone on the squad should be there to do their job and win games. I don't think ST capt makes that much difference. So, to answer the question : I ask another - why do we care about the ST capt ?

Learn something about football and special teams and keep off of Madden..

 

[mgteich]

How many reps and catches did Ventrone get last year at WR? As an NFL- adequate WR, I certainly would expect to see significant contributions. I understand that he was backing up Moss, Welker and Gaffney, but surely he was valuable in 2008 as a receiver in 4 and 5 receiver sets.

How many reps and tackles did Ventrone make as a safety? Surely, as an NFL-adequate safety, I would expect to see lot of contributions considering that our top safety was injured in 2008.

Now let me understand. Slater made 13 special teams tackles in 16 games, and that makes him a safety???????????? Let's play Guyton at safety or Woods! Are they safeties because of their number of special teams tackles? How many reps and tackles did Slater make as a safety? Surely, as an NFL-adequate safety, I would expect to see lot of contributions considering that our top safety was injured in 2008.

I agree that the trading for Greg Lewis might mean that Aiken is expendable as a wide receiver. Most of of would prefer five receivers who can actually play wide receiver, but let's leave that issue aside. Please list how many special teams tackles Lewis made in each of his seasons compared to Aiken. And since he is important to you as an instinctive kick returner, how many kicks has he returned in each of the last five years?
==============================================

Personally, unless we see value in a 5th wide receiver, I don't think any of these three will see the field expect on special teams. I don't see the great value of Slater or Ventrone as the 10th or 11th defensive back, except in the 4th preseason game. DO YOU DISAGREE?

I also don't see much value in Slater or Ventrone as the 5th wide receiver. DO YOU DISAGREE?
==========================================

I don't know how many of these players makes the team. However, for any of these players to make the team, it will their special team play that is key. As I indicated, it is also possible that Belichick would like the #5 receiver to be able to play receiver if necessary. In this area, Aiken has a clear advantage over Slater and Ventrone.
==========================================

Critical ??? There is a void to be filled and that is ST Captain.

Slater should be listed under Saftey not WR. His 13 tackles on ST's last year was second on the team.

Ventrone can play both WR and Safety adequately. With the new rules against using the wedge, you just might need a player like Ventrone.

Aiken has been a good ST, but his role as 4th WR has vanished with the trade for Greg Lewis. Lewis could also return KO which reduces the role of Slater (fast but not very instinctive return man).

I'd say Ventrone #1, Slater #2 and Aiken #3

 

[farn]

Learn something about football and special teams and keep off of Madden..

Wow. FWIW I am not on Madden... and are you trying to say that professional athletes who are men (not high school boys) need a "capt" to keep them straight & motivated ? Wow.

I did state the IMPORTANCE of ST... I downplayed the importance of the squad captain. Seriously, am I alone in thinking grown men don't need a captain to play hard, play well ???

 

[mgteich]

I agree that captain, coach on the field, and leader in the locker room are overrated concepts. For example, if we need another coach to mentor all the youngsters in the secondary, we should hire another coach, not expect a player like Meriweather to pick up the slack for the coaches.

On the other hand, we do need signal callers and veterans who can be counted on without lots and lots of handholding. Gostkowski can be the ST captain for all I care. However, someone needs to be on the field who is a veteran at recognizing formations and situations. Over the years, we have counted on vets like Izzo, Davis and Whigham to fill that role. I like Aiken for that role, as well as Ciurciu (who I don't know very well). Other candidates are Woods and Banta-Cain.

 

[jczxohn1]

You may be correct. Ciurciu may have been brought in to help implement any changes in system. For right now, I have penciled in Ciurciu at the #4 ILB spot, Izzo's old job, and Aiken as a backup WR as he was last year. There is clearly room for both these top special teamers.

This is my thinking as well. Looking at your list of ST'ers, they are all 3 yrs or less and the strongest candidates have new responsibilities to focus on in their "day jobs". Izzo's role as captain, IMO, was to fill the middle and be the last defender before the kicker, a role requiring a little more beef than a WR, hence Ciurciu. Other have pointed out Aikens' experience in Buff., an excellent ST team. Keep'em both.