Who Not Named Barwin Will We Draft at 23?

[DNR]

I'm no scout either, but I offer that even excluding the fact that he's more side-to-side than downhill and looks like he's on rollerskates near a blocker (and I've never seen him protect himself from a cut block, he face plants beautifully, from an old lineman's perspective ), there has to have been a rather large black mark placed against his name from a NE perspective when he showed up for the Senior Bowl out of shape, then followed that up with an unimpressive Combine. Besides running a slow 40 and pulling his hamstring, he failed to make a qualifying broad jump on multiple attempts - he always landed off balance - and even then he was barely making 8 feet. No explosion, which means he needs to get up a head of steam to make a big hit.

I haven't seen him play enough to evaluate his roller skating and face planting

Just have the online profiles and highlite films to go by, and he seems to be highly regarded by just about everyone. The videos show a guy that is a devastating hitter and plays much faster than his timed speed, (but then again thats why they are highlites.)

I believe another ILB should be a priority in this draft, and why not go after the top rated one if you can get him? And because of the negatives you mentioned, he could fall close enough to #23 for Bill to make a move for him if he thinks he's a good fit. I still believe he and Barwin would make an excellent first 2 picks. I guess we'll see what Bill thinks soon enough....

 

[DW Toys]

Heyward-Bey......he could have a more imediate impact than any player we could draft. That speed would look great oposite Moss and keeping safeties deep for Welker.

I panic every time I see him and think Chad Jackson.
DW Toys

 

[DW Toys]

What about one of the DEs/OLB such as Ayers, Johnson, or Jackson...

Johnson, 6'7" and 266. 9 sacks and 17.5 TFL in 2008. Just did an incredible 4.49 in his pro day. Mayock thinks he is inconsistent. Been more than a one year wonder though. Blocked two kicks and plays ST.
At the combine, showed he could drop into coverage and looked good in space. A sleeper Pats #23 pick?
Doesn't this remind you of a younger Jason Taylor?

I think they might throw a curve and go ILB with Maualuga or Little Animal at #23. They brought back TBC for a reason but I am not a big fan. Maybe his 4.5 sacks in his last year here peaked BBs interest. Maybe TBC, Crable and Redd (Guyton?) are enough for BB?
I really think that unless one of the top three tackles are there, they wait for OL in round two like Meredith and Loadholt or round three like a Wood, Kropog or round four like a Vollmer. I read that Britton, and Beatty are nice picks but more developmental and not sure things.

Now the big question, If that agent mishandled nightmare LT Andre Smith is there @#23 , do you gamble? Still rated as the best talent but a lot of work needs to be done to get him on the right path. Saban will have a insider word with BB on this kid.
DW Toys

 

[patchick]

there has to have been a rather large black mark placed against his name from a NE perspective when he showed up for the Senior Bowl out of shape, then followed that up with an unimpressive Combine.

It's especially notable given that maturity and self-discipline were considered two big question marks for Maualuga beforehand.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I haven't seen him play enough to evaluate his roller skating and face planting

Just have the online profiles and highlite films to go by, and he seems to be highly regarded by just about everyone. The videos show a guy that is a devastating hitter and plays much faster than his timed speed, (but then again thats why they are highlites.)

I believe another ILB should be a priority in this draft, and why not go after the top rated one if you can get him? And because of the negatives you mentioned, he could fall close enough to #23 for Bill to make a move for him if he thinks he's a good fit. I still believe he and Barwin would make an excellent first 2 picks. I guess we'll see what Bill thinks soon enough....

Looks good on paper anyway.

I made an effort to catch a USC game when he first was being bandied about as a Top 10 pick a couple years back - first impressions are killers, but I've gone back to watch him another 4-5 times since and he's done nothing to change my view. If New England was a 4-3 team, he'd get stronger consideration from me, but as far as taking on OL like a NE ILB - sheesh.

I consider Mike Mayock one of the better draft analysts out there, and he speaks highly of Maualuga - but in his film clips he used to highlight Rey's strengths, he showed a pulling OG leading through a hole getting blown up by Maualuga and cited it as an example of taking on a blocker. Unfortunately he failed to note the G wasn't squared up coming through the hole, but was pulling inside to outside and was blindsided by Rey also coming inside out. Yeh, he put the G on his knees and plugged the hole, but he sure didn't fight through a blocker like a NE ILB is asked to, and he had 5-6 steps to build up steam for the collision. The best play I've seen Rey make while being blocked was in the Senior Bowl, the Virginia Tech C (projected to be a UDFA) was driving him backwards and he managed to punch the ball out of the RB's hands while he was backpedaling - good play, but I'd like to see a guy his size get under the Center's pads and stand him up, not vice versa as it happened.

NFL Draft Scout has maturity and off-field flags on him, add that to being out of shape for the Senior Bowl and not having a good Combine and the hits just keep on coming.

After doing some side-by-side profiling in mgteich's 'drafting a starting ILB' thread, I don't see a good value for ILB on day one. Jason Phillips of TCU makes the most sense and NFL Draft Scout has him carrying a 5th round grade. There are several other Day Two options to consider and I'd take any of them before I'd take Maualuga. Hey, my #1 ILB prospect two years ago was taken by Philly, who turned him into their starting MLB as a rookie. Last year Mayo was my #1 ILB. If this keeps up I'm gonna start believing my own press releases.

 

[dryheat44]

No explosion, which means he needs to get up a head of steam to make a big hit.

Extremely astute observation...he's the kind of guy that goes backwards upon contact, rather than stepping up and stoning a guard or fullback.

Patchick did most of my heavy lifting for me, although I still don't see Gilbert as a Day 1 target.

Unless Belichick absolutely loves Darius Butler, the names I have are Beatty and Jackson. The only other option I see is Clint Sintim, with four years starting experience as an OLB, if Groh/Belichick are convinced that he's still going to get better.

If these are all gone, I'm fine with Nicks or Heyward Bey, who has a chance to be the best double-surnamed Patriot since Greg Robinson Randall, who was probably better than Tully Banta Cain.

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

I just got done breaking down some tape on Maualuga finally as my buddy is a huge USC fan just came back up north from Flordia this week. He gave me copies of his games from Ohio State and Virginia.

First off I am going to take some heat for this but I think if this guy was there at #23 I would take him no question. Even if a Top OL fell in our laps and I am a former O-Line and know the imprortance espeically to us with need for 2010.

Here is what I saw.

I think he can be a three down LB for us with some mentoring from Bru and AD but he does have the physical gifts to contribute right away. For example he had a pick for a TD in the Ohio State game where he expands (all the way to the sidelines) inside #2 reciever reading the QB's eye's and showed great instincts to get the ball in the endzone. He does get pined trying to use athleatic ability to defeat blockers at times but he does show that he can come downhill, use his hands and make tackles. He does not do this as often as I would like but BB will not put up with this. In the Virginia game I saw him make plays on out routs and closing quickly on quick passes out of the backfield to RB (3rd down). He does not give up on a play and will chase down the tackle from behind . He is an outstanding blitzer with good D-line helping him out but when he gets to the QB he delivers the wood....consistantly. His agressive nature and presence on the field is noticeable even with a lot of talent around him. I think that other than Curry he is the most complete LB in the draft and I think still has room to grow to be a awesome player....especially with BB molding him. His game speed is what catches me off guard as he plays faster on the field then he has timed. Overall I liked these two games that I saw him in and think the Pats would be getting a great player who can come in and with the right direction I think this kid can be great paired with Mayo for the next 5 years.

OK.....Time for what I did not like.

He is too agressive (if I can say that about a middle LB) at time to the point that he just stupidly takes himself out of the play. The utube hilight of him running over the WSU center is a good example....great job kocking the Center on his behind but he did sh#t on the play as far as getting to the QB. I also saw him do this when RB's met him in A gap 7 times in total he ran over the guy every time but only got to the QB twice.....only one sack though. If he were to use his hands with this explosion he would find that running over guys is not the only way to get to the QB. He does not always take proper angles getting to the ball and his hips at times seem tight but other times he looks more fluid. As BOR did point out to me he does have difficulity when a OT gets on him where he would have to use his hands and more leverage to defeat them to make a play. I do hope that BB can fix some of this but I think this kid still has an upside.

My buddy called over last night and he found a copy of the Rose Bowl where he was MVP but I would like to look at more footage of teams that he did not have a good game in because that is what BB is going to be looking at. Well off to work but I am intrested to see the boards reaction and who agrees with me he would be good at #23.

W

 

[DW Toys]

Looks good on paper anyway.

I made an effort to catch a USC game when he first was being bandied about as a Top 10 pick a couple years back - first impressions are killers, but I've gone back to watch him another 4-5 times since and he's done nothing to change my view. If New England was a 4-3 team, he'd get stronger consideration from me, but as far as taking on OL like a NE ILB - sheesh.

I consider Mike Mayock one of the better draft analysts out there, and he speaks highly of Maualuga - but in his film clips he used to highlight Rey's strengths, he showed a pulling OG leading through a hole getting blown up by Maualuga and cited it as an example of taking on a blocker. Unfortunately he failed to note the G wasn't squared up coming through the hole, but was pulling inside to outside and was blindsided by Rey also coming inside out. Yeh, he put the G on his knees and plugged the hole, but he sure didn't fight through a blocker like a NE ILB is asked to, and he had 5-6 steps to build up steam for the collision. The best play I've seen Rey make while being blocked was in the Senior Bowl, the Virginia Tech C (projected to be a UDFA) was driving him backwards and he managed to punch the ball out of the RB's hands while he was backpedaling - good play, but I'd like to see a guy his size get under the Center's pads and stand him up, not vice versa as it happened.

NFL Draft Scout has maturity and off-field flags on him, add that to being out of shape for the Senior Bowl and not having a good Combine and the hits just keep on coming.

After doing some side-by-side profiling in mgteich's 'drafting a starting ILB' thread, I don't see a good value for ILB on day one. Jason Phillips of TCU makes the most sense and NFL Draft Scout has him carrying a 5th round grade. There are several other Day Two options to consider and I'd take any of them before I'd take Maualuga. Hey, my #1 ILB prospect two years ago was taken by Philly, who turned him into their starting MLB as a rookie. Last year Mayo was my #1 ILB. If this keeps up I'm gonna start believing my own press releases.

BOR,
I can't find any of these red flags. Any links? What about Brinkley from South Carolina. Was coming off a previous ACL in 2007 and finally toward the end looked better. Ran good at the combine and did all things well.
DW Toys

 

[patchick]

I just got done breaking down some tape on Maualuga

Thank you, good stuff!

I have to say, even though you gave Maualuga the thumbs up I wasn't really encouraged by your description. It sounds like he has great speed, instincts and aggression in coverage and on blitzes, but is weak using his hands, taking on guards and generally fighting through trash to the ball. Given that the big need is for a SILB mauler, that's not really what I'd like to hear.

 

[signbabybrady]

I panic every time I see him and think Chad Jackson.
DW Toys

So dont draft any WR anymore......They are not the same person....I am not locked into him either I like Barwin but we couldn't take him per the OP...I like Delmas but I think we could get either at 34 so I threw out Heyward-Bey mostly because I think a 3rd WR could have more impact to this team than anyone else we sign or draft except maybe an OLB because the team is pretty well stocked at all positions.

 

[dryheat44]

I just got done breaking down some tape on Maualuga finally as my buddy is a huge USC fan just came back up north from Flordia this week. He gave me copies of his games from Ohio State and Virginia.

Great work, thanks.

Unfortunately, I still don't think it translates well to what he's going to need to do as a 3-4 Mike. He's not going to get the protection he got from his O-line at Carroll U. Just like IMO Ray Lewis and Brian Urlacher wouldn't be very good in the Pats defense, I don't think Rey will either.

 

[DW Toys]

So dont draft any WR anymore......They are not the same person....I am not locked into him either I like Barwin but we couldn't take him per the OP...I like Delmas but I think we could get either at 34 so I threw out Heyward-Bey mostly because I think a 3rd WR could have more impact to this team than anyone else we sign or draft except maybe an OLB because the team is pretty well stocked at all positions.

No I would like a WR. I agree with your assessment. I think that is a need. I don't like Nicks or Britt either. Do you think Harvin would be there? Is he a fit at #23? Seems to have had speaks with BB. I worry about Gator WRs though. Could eventually do Faulks role?
DW Toys

 

[DW Toys]

Great work, thanks.

Unfortunately, I still don't think it translates well to what he's going to need to do as a 3-4 Mike. He's not going to get the protection he got from his O-line at Carroll U. Just like IMO Ray Lewis and Brian Urlacher wouldn't be very good in the Pats defense, I don't think Rey will either.

Thoughts on 6' 7" 266 lb DE Johnson of GT who did the combine well as in LB drills and just ran a 4.49 in his proday. Is he a fit at #23? 9 sacks last year and 17.5 TFL. I don't know....... just gathering info for a #23 PICK.
DW Toys

 

[Revman]

Maualuga is by far the best ILB in the country. Beckwith has the most appeal in Pat's system. English will be the best pass rusher left at 23. Alex Mack is the best offensive lineman in the draft. Barring the acquisition of Peppers-I believe that one of these 4 men will be playing for the Patriots next year. Beckwith would be a round 2 type if Maualuga is gone at 23.

 

[Revman]

There is always a couple of great athletes that will temp you into taking them . It is obvious that Michael Johnson has phenomenal athletic talent.
Pat's did well with Guyton(undrafted GA.Tech). Had Darrell Robertson-olb-Ga.Tech until this month. He reminds me of Jevon Kearse out of Florida. I don't believe that he will be able to start from day one like Mayo did a year ago. He can be coached up-he is the boom or bust guy in this draft.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

BOR,
I can't find any of these red flags. Any links? What about Brinkley from South Carolina. Was coming off a previous ACL in 2007 and finally toward the end looked better. Ran good at the combine and did all things well.
DW Toys

Rey Maualuga, Southern California, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com Football

Look under Analysis - negatives: the last three items mentioned.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I just got done breaking down some tape on Maualuga finally as my buddy is a huge USC fan just came back up north from Flordia this week. He gave me copies of his games from Ohio State and Virginia.

First off I am going to take some heat for this but I think if this guy was there at #23 I would take him no question. Even if a Top OL fell in our laps and I am a former O-Line and know the imprortance espeically to us with need for 2010.

Here is what I saw.

I think he can be a three down LB for us with some mentoring from Bru and AD but he does have the physical gifts to contribute right away. For example he had a pick for a TD in the Ohio State game where he expands (all the way to the sidelines) inside #2 reciever reading the QB's eye's and showed great instincts to get the ball in the endzone. He does get pined trying to use athleatic ability to defeat blockers at times but he does show that he can come downhill, use his hands and make tackles. He does not do this as often as I would like but BB will not put up with this. In the Virginia game I saw him make plays on out routs and closing quickly on quick passes out of the backfield to RB (3rd down). He does not give up on a play and will chase down the tackle from behind . He is an outstanding blitzer with good D-line helping him out but when he gets to the QB he delivers the wood....consistantly. His agressive nature and presence on the field is noticeable even with a lot of talent around him. I think that other than Curry he is the most complete LB in the draft and I think still has room to grow to be a awesome player....especially with BB molding him. His game speed is what catches me off guard as he plays faster on the field then he has timed. Overall I liked these two games that I saw him in and think the Pats would be getting a great player who can come in and with the right direction I think this kid can be great paired with Mayo for the next 5 years.

OK.....Time for what I did not like.

He is too agressive (if I can say that about a middle LB) at time to the point that he just stupidly takes himself out of the play. The utube hilight of him running over the WSU center is a good example....great job kocking the Center on his behind but he did sh#t on the play as far as getting to the QB. I also saw him do this when RB's met him in A gap 7 times in total he ran over the guy every time but only got to the QB twice.....only one sack though. If he were to use his hands with this explosion he would find that running over guys is not the only way to get to the QB. He does not always take proper angles getting to the ball and his hips at times seem tight but other times he looks more fluid. As BOR did point out to me he does have difficulity when a OT gets on him where he would have to use his hands and more leverage to defeat them to make a play. I do hope that BB can fix some of this but I think this kid still has an upside.

My buddy called over last night and he found a copy of the Rose Bowl where he was MVP but I would like to look at more footage of teams that he did not have a good game in because that is what BB is going to be looking at. Well off to work but I am intrested to see the boards reaction and who agrees with me he would be good at #23.

W

Thanks for following up on that! You're selling what I'm smelling, the kid will be a great 4-3 MLB (if he has some strong leaders to rap his knuckles and up-side his head), but you report nothing I haven't seen and none of it reads like a NE 3-4 IMHO. When you get some more recordings look for cut blocks and how well he avoids them.

 

[dryheat44]

Thoughts on 6' 7" 266 lb DE Johnson of GT who did the combine well as in LB drills and just ran a 4.49 in his proday. Is he a fit at #23? 9 sacks last year and 17.5 TFL. I don't know....... just gathering info for a #23 PICK.
DW Toys

He's growing on me, but I think #23 is too high for him. I've got him as a mid-2nd round value. I'd like to see some film to see how he is defending the run before I'd consider him higher. From what I remember, he wasn't very good at it. But I also think it was a lack of desire, and not, like Maybin for example, a lack of ability.

Remember that BB came to the Giants, and had to motivate some linebackers every day on a team that was terrible at first. Lawrence Taylor was a lazy POS Monday through Saturday, Harry Carson had a bad attitude because nobody else took his job as serious as he did. Pepper Johnson needed to be told often to play the run first. (All anecdotes courtesy of The Education of a Coach) And Belichick didn't have 1/10th the credibility he has now...he was a first time co-ordinator with little on his resume.

If Belichick, Pees, Patricia, and Pepper can get through to this kid, he could be the steal of the draft.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Ray Mauluga reminds me a lot of Ted Johnson. I think he will drop if he doesn't improve his 40 time and may drop into the second round.

 

[DW Toys]

Rey Maualuga, Southern California, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com Football

Look under Analysis - negatives: the last three items mentioned.

Got it... thanks. Alcohol! I wonder if there was more that got hidden by Carroll and crew.
DW Toys