T. Owens visits and signs 1 year deal with Bills [merged]

[scout]

Moss might be a slightly better player (they have different styles), but he might actually be more of a douchebag, historically speaking. Maybe, that is. Owens has never been in trouble with the law, for example. Moss deliberately hit a cop with his car...wouldn't listen to her. According to him, he was misquoted when he said that the Marshall plane crash was "nothing big." 75 people died. How about the time he left the field before the game was over? I didn't think it was a big deal, but how about the time he mock-mooned the Packers fans in the playoffs? Got fined for it. Publicly telling people that he smoked weed on occasion? How about his total lack of effort at times? He actually said in an interview, "I play when I want to play." How about when he was accused of violence against that girl during the 2007 playoffs? True or not, this had to be a distraction to him if not the team. The Patriots lost the Super Bowl.

What a bunch of crock. You just lost any credibility with that garbage!
How did TO depart San Francisco? Did he dump on his QB when he was there?
How did TO depart Philadelphia? Did he dump on his QB when he was there?
How did TO depart Dallas? Did he dump on his QB or his teammates when he was there?

Now, please respond with the number of times Randy Moss has dumped on his teammates.



. After Ralph Wilson dies, the future of the Bills is uncertain, but there are A LOT of people that interested in keeping the team in Buffalo. A lot.

Sounds like your hanging on by threads (1918).



Brady to Moss has nothing to do with Edwards to Owens. T.O. doesn't just want to win games? Sure he wants the ball as all WRs should, but I don't agree that he complains about not getting the ball enough after a win. He might complain about that after a loss, but not a win. I've heard him say that he doesn't care about his own stats as long as the team wins several times. The guy is a football player, not a rocket scientist...but he's not a complete idiot.

They better room TO with Edwards, just ask Whitten.

LOL. How I'd love to knock the Patriots' ass in the grass.

You and the rest of the league. Not this year.

 

[feldspar]

You and the rest of the league. Not this year.

Don't be too sure. Never be too sure.

What a bunch of crock. You just lost any credibility with that garbage!
How did TO depart San Francisco? Did he dump on his QB when he was there?
How did TO depart Philadelphia? Did he dump on his QB when he was there?
How did TO depart Dallas? Did he dump on his QB or his teammates when he was there?

Now, please respond with the number of times Randy Moss has dumped on his teammates.

TO takes things personally when he loses. He can be an arrogant loudmouth for sure, but he truly cares about winning. He gets upset.

Moss gets despondent and doesn't even try when things go wrong, and he's said so himself more than once.

You tell me which attitude is better.

Also, T.O. is friends with McNabb. Ask his teammates in Philly and Dallas what they think of T.O. Most of them say positive things, and that the media blows his antics out of proportion. I heard an overwhelming amount of positive things coming from his former teammates when they speak of him. Seriously, the media focus on T.O. is ridiculous. I wouldn't be surprised if they had a story on what he had for breakfast. The media loves this ****, and they are at least half responsible for creating this monster. His former teams don't enjoy the media circus that comes with having T.O. on the team, and THAT is probably more of a distraction than what he actually does. Everyone is always asked about TO in interviews and such.

 

[Warren94]

It's a good addition on paper and for the offense. Not so much for chemistry and team.

 

[BAM!]

Don't be too sure. Never be too sure.



TO takes things personally when he loses. He can be an arrogant loudmouth for sure, but he truly cares about winning. He gets upset.

Moss gets despondent and doesn't even try when things go wrong, and he's said so himself more than once.

You tell me which attitude is better.

Also, T.O. is friends with McNabb. Ask his teammates in Philly and Dallas what they think of T.O. Most of them say positive things, and that the media blows his antics out of proportion. I heard an overwhelming amount of positive things coming from his former teammates when they speak of him. Seriously, the media focus on T.O. is ridiculous. I wouldn't be surprised if they had a story on what he had for breakfast. The media loves this ****, and they are at least half responsible for creating this monster. His former teams don't enjoy the media circus that comes with having T.O. on the team, and THAT is probably more of a distraction than what he actually does. Everyone is always asked about TO in interviews and such.

Dude, you can defend all you want but history says otherwise. The Bills may get the good T.O. this year but if he stays it will end badly, it always ends badly.

His attitude resembles that more of a person suffering from a bipolar disorder than someone who "really cares about winning." As far as the media... when will T.O. be held responsible for his actions? Don't get me wrong, I think that the media can bring a lot of headaches but those headaches can go away if the person (T.O.) stayed out of the media. HE creates the stories because HE loves the attention.

It's the same story over and over again with this guy, he isn't the problem because his teammates love him! Okay, then why do coaches constantly get rid of him? Why did Parcell's not want him in Dallas?

 

[lorijean]

Moss gets despondent and doesn't even try when things go wrong, and he's said so himself more than once.

You tell me which attitude is better

I would rather have Randy. You Bills fans can have TO. The games should be fun.

 

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

Re: T.Owens visits and signs 1 year deal with Bills (merged)

I'm a Bills fan.

I'm a Cowboys fan, FWIW.

Over the past 2 seasons, T.O. has caught one less touchdown pass than our entire team combined. He's caught more touchdown passes than ANYBODY over the past three seasons. His numbers were better than Lee Evans' last year and almost the exact same as your boy, Randy Moss. Say what you want about him, but the man can still play football at a very high level and put points on the board.

FWIW-most of TO's TDs in Dallas were either early in the game when it was 0-0ish, 7-0ish, etc, or late in the game when it was garbage time. Pt being that he's not exactly the clutchest of guys when the game is on the line, and he doesn't have the best of hands either on 3rd downs. Very good HOF stats, but like with MLB's A-Rod, they are very hollow.

T.O. is going into his 14th season. Jerry Rice went to Oakland in his 17th season and played at a high level there for a couple of years, actually helping them to the Super Bowl in his 18th season in the league. He played 21 years. My point is not that the Bills are now going to the Super Bowl, but that top-notch receivers can last a long time if they keep themselves properly conditioned, which T.O. does. Anybody that thinks that our team isn't instantly better by having T.O. is crazy. Better than they were.

Regardless-if you don't get him involved early and often, he will get frustrated and lose heart as the game goes on. I agree with you that more opportunities will open up for Evans/Parrish, and the oppositions won't be able to stack the box to stop Lynch, but regardless...TO will still want his touches. What's worse is that both the coaches and his teammates KNOW he has a fragile ego, and have no choice but to walk on eggshells when dealing with him.

I never really cared for T.O., but I'm glad the Bills got him. The perception of him (especially in the media) is probably worse than what he actually does. The media waits for him to do ANYTHING, and they love to blow things out of proportion. He IS a prima donna and a media hound, but he is more than capable of behaving himself for one year on a new team. If the Bills win, there shouldn't be a problem. If the Bills lose, who cares anyway? If the Bills lose, I hope he DOES start screaming at people. It would be entertaining, and I've wanted to scream at these people for quite some time.

Like missing the entire TC in Dallas in 2006 with a questionable hammy injury, and then doing his Lance Armstrong impersonation on that exercise bike during that time? The attempted suicide a month later? Getting into a scuffle with passing coordinator Todd Haley, then calling him out as the locker room snitch throughout that year? Sleeping in meetings and openly admitted how he does so b/c he has some kind of illness which makes him stay awake at night? Dressing up as Santa Clause in his post-game presser after having a bad game against the Eagles on Christmas Day, only to give that "I don't get the ball enough" excuse? He gets passes thrown his way some 17 times in one game this last year, then tells the media how he doesn't get the ball enough? Then later that year, he gives up on routes on 2 of Romo's INTs, and doesn't hold himself accountable in his post-game presser, but says instead how "I ran my route and was open"?

Yah-BSPN was making all of this up, right? I will agree with you to some extent that some of the stuff he does/doesn't do get sensationalized, but the media does so b/c they KNOW his past history AND Owens gives them what they want, therefore they have put him under the microscope. IOW-this is THE baggage he brings everywhere he goes b/c he sets himself out to be this big drama queen.[/quote]

As far as our division goes, the Pats are still the team to beat. With our difficult schedules, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the only team in the AFC East that makes the playoffs is the team that wins the division. There won't be a wildcard IMO. Not with these schedules. I don't know why people consider the Jets better than the Bills; had Losman not inexplicably fumbled the ball at the end of the game against the Jets, the Bills and the Jets would have ended with the same record of 8-8. Now the Jets don't have a QB. The Fins just plain don't scare me. If the Bills can stay healthy and not beat themselves, which they did quite often last year, we will at least compete against the Dolphins and Jets and will at least split the games with them. We swept them both 2 years ago. Losman played terribly last year, and we didn't really give a chance in 4 games. He's gone.

The good news is that TO is a decent guy in year 1. He will stir up a bit of drama even that year, but he doesn't exactly cross the line either. I feel 2009 will be a Bills offensive explosion year just b/c of that.

And no-I don't think the AFCE's teams schedules are all that difficult. The only decent team in the AFCS is Indy(who should win their division easily). Otherwise, Tennessee will take a step back with the loss of Haynesworth and a QB problem. Jacksonville has problems, problems, problems. Houston, well...they're Houston. At least the Bills play Indy IN Buffalo this year. The NFCS won't be very strong this year. Carolina was lucky to win 1/2 of their games last year before crapping the bed in the playoffs, now Delhomme will be a year older and more washed up. Tampa is rebuilding, and they'll be starting an inexperienced QB. Atlanta overachieved last year, and now has alot of holes on defense. And New Orleans has a suspect defense.

If we can manage to pick up quality players in our remaining positions of need (G, TE, DE, LB, maybe C), we have a good a chance as anybody if we can beat you guys once...finally. We still have a young team that needs to learn how to win. Don't count us out.

I have a feeling the Bills will draft Pettigrew. If so, that offense will be dynamic.

 

[feldspar]

Dude, you can defend all you want but history says otherwise. The Bills may get the good T.O. this year but if he stays it will end badly, it always ends badly.

Thank you, and I will defend him. Never in a million years did I think I would actually be defending this guy, but it's different when he is on your team. One year is a very, very good risk, I do believe. It is good for the Bills organization. Last night, they talked about the Bills more than they have over the past year, it seemed like.

His attitude resembles that more of a person suffering from a bipolar disorder than someone who "really cares about winning."

LOL. You have a point there, but the truth probably lies somewhere in between.

As far as the media... when will T.O. be held responsible for his actions? Don't get me wrong, I think that the media can bring a lot of headaches but those headaches can go away if the person (T.O.) stayed out of the media. HE creates the stories because HE loves the attention.

He's a media hound for sure. He plays up to it. But when has he not been held accountable for his actions? He's been criticized endlessly, knocked around, and sent packing off teams. He may not always admit to doing anything wrong, but he's more than been held accountable. He craves attention so much and the media eats it up like candy. Not a good combonation. My point is that the media dissects every syllable that comes out of his mouth, and I also suggest that they create controversy where there is otherwise none. You can't tell me that it doesn't happen. I'm not saying that he has never said wrong things or acted inappropriately either.

It's the same story over and over again with this guy, he isn't the problem because his teammates love him! Okay, then why do coaches constantly get rid of him? Why did Parcell's not want him in Dallas?

Media circus, my friend. Media circus.

Get your popcorn ready.

 

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

TO takes things personally when he loses. He can be an arrogant loudmouth for sure, but he truly cares about winning. He gets upset.

But he doesn't hold himself accountable-that's the BAD part. He will point fingers at his teammates and coaches instead.

Believe me-I was saying the exact same thing you said when TO was doing his antics here in Dallas.
[/quote]

Moss gets despondent and doesn't even try when things go wrong, and he's said so himself more than once.

You tell me which attitude is better.

No argument here-however, Moss HAS held himself accountable in his post-game pressers when he played poorly and/or the Pats lose.

Also, T.O. is friends with McNabb.

Yep-they kissed and made up 2 years ago at a Super Bowl party. But it was too little, too late. If TO had kissed and made up with McNabb WAY back in 2005 Training Camp, then they may have won a ring(or 2) together by now.

Ask his teammates in Philly and Dallas what they think of T.O. Most of them say positive things, and that the media blows his antics out of proportion.

1/3 of them are/will continue to be his staunchest supporters...while blaming Romo and Jason Garrett to the bitter end for all of our woes.

1/3 of them see his true colors and are able to analyze objectively.

1/3 of them, including myself, just stick their heads in the sand hoping the whole thing was just one big illusion.

I heard an overwhelming amount of positive things coming from his former teammates when they speak of him.

That's b/c they're professionals, albeit classy individuals. Even Wade said some nice things about TO-of course, as you know, Wade may not be the best of coaches, but he's proven that he's a classy guy.

Seriously, the media focus on T.O. is ridiculous. I wouldn't be surprised if they had a story on what he had for breakfast. The media loves this ****, and they are at least half responsible for creating this monster. His former teams don't enjoy the media circus that comes with having T.O. on the team, and THAT is probably more of a distraction than what he actually does. Everyone is always asked about TO in interviews and such.

That's b/c TO brings it upon HIMSELF. He LOVES the spotlight, and finds a million ways to bring himself into it. It's no different from McNabb, Peyton, Ocho Cino, LT, just to name a few. The media holds these guys to higher standards b/c of just THAT.

Randy Moss-OTOH, has kept himself low key ever since he got to NE.

 

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

Thank you, and I will defend him. Never in a million years did I think I would actually be defending this guy, but it's different when he is on your team. One year is a very, very good risk, I do believe. It is good for the Bills organization. Last night, they talked about the Bills more than they have over the past year, it seemed like.

<snip to save bandwidth>

To be fair-I feel this is a low-risk deal for the Bills.

Here in Dallas-it was high risk for the reason being that we ALREADY had a VERY good team in place that Parcells built. Owens was not, I repeat NOT this "missing piece" that our team desperately needed. We could have gotten Greg Jennings in the 2nd round of the 2006 draft instead of throwing it away on some scrub TE in Anthony Fasano.

Yah-in 2006 and 2008, we were 8-4 going into those respective Dec's, we were in firm control to win the NFCE *and* potentially go to the Super Bowl, until TSHTF. No-I'm not saying Owens stirring up drama in the final stretch killed our chances, but at the same time, I always wonder, to this day, how those Dec's would have turned out if we had far fewer distractions. It was as if we threw away golden opportunities to win a Super Bowl in these last 3 years.

The Bills, OTOH, have nothing to lose with this deal, IMHO. In TO's presser yesterday, he looked humbled for the first time in a long, LONG time. Who knows if humility really got to him this time? Especially after blowing golden opportunities with 3 proud franchises in SF, Philly, and Dallas.

 

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

It's a good addition on paper and for the offense. Not so much for chemistry and team.

Like I mentioned earlier in this thread, the minute TO is even a little unhappy, and starts to express is displeasure...LOOK OUT! In a flicker of an eye, the locker room will start to get divided.

This isn't like Pacman who's nothing but a thug and his problems are off the field, but at least with him, the minute he stirs up trouble, you can just cut him, and that's the end of the story.

It's not like that with TO-cutting him for expressing a few words of displeasure won't solve anything, as the locker room will get divided almost immediately.

 

[NJPatsfan26]

Like I mentioned earlier in this thread, the minute TO is even a little unhappy, and starts to express is displeasure...LOOK OUT! In a flicker of an eye, the locker room will start to get divided.

This isn't like Pacman who's nothing but a thug and his problems are off the field, but at least with him, the minute he stirs up trouble, you can just cut him, and that's the end of the story.

It's not like that with TO-cutting him for expressing a few words of displeasure won't solve anything, as the locker room will get divided almost immediately.

How long do you think it will take for him to go psycho? I am guessing week 5....

Any one else??

 

[BAM!]

Thank you, and I will defend him. Never in a million years did I think I would actually be defending this guy, but it's different when he is on your team. One year is a very, very good risk, I do believe. It is good for the Bills organization. Last night, they talked about the Bills more than they have over the past year, it seemed like.



LOL. You have a point there, but the truth probably lies somewhere in between.



He's a media hound for sure. He plays up to it. But when has he not been held accountable for his actions? He's been criticized endlessly, knocked around, and sent packing off teams. He may not always admit to doing anything wrong, but he's more than been held accountable. He craves attention so much and the media eats it up like candy. Not a good combonation. My point is that the media dissects every syllable that comes out of his mouth, and I also suggest that they create controversy where there is otherwise none. You can't tell me that it doesn't happen. I'm not saying that he has never said wrong things or acted inappropriately either.



Media circus, my friend. Media circus.

Get your popcorn ready.

You see, that's the problem. He doesn't hold himself accountable and until he does the circus will continue.

It's like a drug addict who is held accountable for his actions by the law (i.e., getting busted with drugs and going to jail). Until that person admits he is an addict and holds himself responsible for his own actions, he will ultimately find himself back in jail. Public opinion/accountability doesn't change or alter a person's behavior only the individual themselves can change their behavior.

As you say, it will be interesting nonetheless. opcorn:

 

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

How long do you think it will take for him to go psycho? I am guessing week 5....

Any one else??

After the gut-wrenching Steelers loss on 12/7, which is when Owens' ugly-rear end was really starting to come out(and the internal locker room strife b/w him and Witten were getting widely publicized)...this is also the same week that fans started calling into DFW radio shows complaining how either Romo should be throwing to Owens more, or just keeps missing him wide open.

Pt being that like I eluded to earlier, it gets worse when these teams' respective FANBASES start getting into the mix. I mean the same fanbases who are so quick to call out the QB, and the QB ALONE when their team loses(despite the fact that other phases lost it for them), are also the same ones that end up siding with the TO's of the world. It doesn't make sense at all, which shows how much CLOUT TO brings in as well. It's as if TO has the power to round up an army to revolt against his team.

Who knows? Wk5, 6, 11, or even the playoffs, the minute Trent Edwards starts to put together a string of poor games is when the Buffalo fans, who once upon a time ago thought he was their next Jim Kelly, will end up turning on him for a good while.

Oh BTW-**** Jauron better look into hiring bodyguards...b/c if things go sour like they did last year, Bills fans won't just merely "turn on him" anymore...with TO's presence, it could get FAR uglier.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

First off, I live in western NY (Bills country) and since moving here from Maine many moons ago, I've been forced to pretty much "watch" the spectacle that has been the Bills from a front row seat for many years (20+)

I don't even hate them anymore (unlike the JETS and squids), mostly I just feel sad for them. They are a rabid fanbase DESPERATE for something good. I empathize with them because it wasn't much more then a decade ago I felt the very same way as a NE fan. I don't blame these guys for being excited about TO. Unfortunately, he is not the "answer" they need. The script is already written and most of the fans I know don't even see it coming.

Buffalo will come out of the gate ON FIRE next year and possibly win their 1st 4-5 games. Then, the AVERAGE QB, will have 2-3 average to poor games and the young inconsistent defense will not be able to save the day. The inevitable slide will begin at that point. It always does. TO being here will only EXACERBATE THAT. TO has to be the guy, absolutely HAS TO. Buffalo might be playing well and the offense could be humming, but with a very good Lee Evans probably getting more balls his way, TO will NOT be content with that. He will begin to lose it early and once Edwards mediocre games begin, his head will begin to spin off, and no one it that locker room can prevent it.

TO was able to maintain for a year or two on Philly and Dallas, but lets not forget, those were good teams. He going to a crappy team. It's not a good match.

For what ails Buffalo, it is not a simple "skill player" or two away. Even one of TO's talent.

 

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

First off, I live in western NY (Bills country) and since moving here from Maine many moons ago, I've been forced to pretty much "watch" the spectacle that has been the Bills from a front row seat for many years (20+)

I don't even hate them anymore (unlike the JETS and squids), mostly I just feel sad for them. They are a rabid fanbase DESPERATE for something good. I empathize with them because it wasn't much more then a decade ago I felt the very same way as a NE fan. I don't blame these guys for being excited about TO. Unfortunately, he is not the "answer" they need. The script is already written and most of the fans I know don't even see it coming.

Buffalo will come out of the gate ON FIRE next year and possibly win their 1st 4-5 games. Then, the AVERAGE QB, will have 2-3 average to poor games and the young inconsistent defense will not be able to save the day. The inevitable slide will begin at that point. It always does. TO being here will only EXACERBATE THAT. TO has to be the guy, absolutely HAS TO. Buffalo might be playing well and the offense could be humming, but with a very good Lee Evans probably getting more balls his way, TO will NOT be content with that. He will begin to lose it early and once Edwards mediocre games begin, his head will begin to spin off, and no one it that locker room can prevent it.

TO was able to maintain for a year or two on Philly and Dallas, but lets not forget, those were good teams. He going to a crappy team. It's not a good match.

For what ails Buffalo, it is not a simple "skill player" or two away. Even one of TO's talent.

Also-Brian Westbrook is the catalyst to that Philly offense. Even with their scrub receivers-Westbrook AND that massive, athletic OL open up that offense in a big way.

Same here in Dallas-at season's end, we found out that we have 3, THREE very good RBs in Barber, Felix, and Choice...and not to mention too we have Roy11, a speedster in Miles Austin, and Patrick Crayton will likely move back to his most effective spot(the slot).

That's how I look at it with Buffalo-Marshawn Lynch is THE catalyst to that offense. All they have to do is feed this beast, and their offense will consistently open up. Trent Edwards is very effective b/c he's smart and knows how to keep the chains moving with his accuracy. Ultimately, is TO *really* necessary?

 

[feldspar]

Re: T.Owens visits and signs 1 year deal with Bills (merged)

I'm a Cowboys fan, FWIW.

Great, talking to a Cowboys fan on a Patriots board. I've sunk to a new low. LOL.

FWIW-most of TO's TDs in Dallas were either early in the game when it was 0-0ish, 7-0ish, etc, or late in the game when it was garbage time. Pt being that he's not exactly the clutchest of guys when the game is on the line, and he doesn't have the best of hands either on 3rd downs. Very good HOF stats, but like with MLB's A-Rod, they are very hollow.

How is early in the game when it's 0-0 or 0-7 a bad time to score a touchdown? It's a great time, ask me. Being second in all-time receiving touchdowns could never be a hollow stat. The all-time leader played 7 more seasons than TO. Saying crap like this leads me to believe that you want to discredit him as a player because you are one in a long list of people that have a personal vendetta against him. Don't know if you really do or not. I've had some personal experience with Wade Phillips, and I know that T.O. isn't the reason you missed the playoffs last year.

I've seen TO do plenty of clutch things, but I don't pretend to have watched every game he's played.

Regardless-if you don't get him involved early and often, he will get frustrated and lose heart as the game goes on. I agree with you that more opportunities will open up for Evans/Parrish, and the oppositions won't be able to stack the box to stop Lynch, but regardless...TO will still want his touches. What's worse is that both the coaches and his teammates KNOW he has a fragile ego, and have no choice but to walk on eggshells when dealing with him.

Well, I respect your take since he was on your team for three years. Every receiver wants the ball, as does every skill player worth his salt. That by itself doesn't say anything. Dude, if things get as bad with T.O. as people think, don't think for a minute that the Bills won't tell him not to come to work. He's only there for a year. Nobody is going to dream of sucking on his Jauron.

Like missing the entire TC in Dallas in 2006 with a questionable hammy injury, and then doing his Lance Armstrong impersonation on that exercise bike during that time? The attempted suicide a month later? Getting into a scuffle with passing coordinator Todd Haley, then calling him out as the locker room snitch throughout that year? Sleeping in meetings and openly admitted how he does so b/c he has some kind of illness which makes him stay awake at night? Dressing up as Santa Clause in his post-game presser after having a bad game against the Eagles on Christmas Day, only to give that "I don't get the ball enough" excuse? He gets passes thrown his way some 17 times in one game this last year, then tells the media how he doesn't get the ball enough? Then later that year, he gives up on routes on 2 of Romo's INTs, and doesn't hold himself accountable in his post-game presser, but says instead how "I ran my route and was open"?

I hear ya, but if you stick around for this long as an elite WR, you are going to encounter some of this stuff...being accused of not finishing routes on certain plays and stuff. Some of this stuff is funny, some bad, others just theatrics. Some just strange or just entertaining. These things happened (or didn't) in the past. I'm willing to give him a clean slate in Buffalo. That's where I stand, and who can blame me? T.O. is not a terrorist.

Yah-BSPN was making all of this up, right? I will agree with you to some extent that some of the stuff he does/doesn't do get sensationalized, but the media does so b/c they KNOW his past history AND Owens gives them what they want, therefore they have put him under the microscope. IOW-this is THE baggage he brings everywhere he goes b/c he sets himself out to be this big drama queen.

You would not hear any of this crap on ESPN if a different player did it, and different players do stuff that T.O. does, but don't get press for it because they are not T.O. That's part of my point. Marvin Harrison's gun was recently used in a situation where a man was shot and a young child was injured with glass in his eyes, I believe. This happened last year and we haven't heard much about it. Why? Because he's Marvin Harrison and has a good rep. If this happened to T.O., they'd probably have to create a whole new channel for it.

The bottom line, and I'm sure that you'll agree with me, is that T.O. sets himself up for this stuff. He needs to be smarter about what he says, that's all.

The good news is that TO is a decent guy in year 1. He will stir up a bit of drama even that year, but he doesn't exactly cross the line either. I feel 2009 will be a Bills offensive explosion year just b/c of that.

Thanks for that. I agree. I also have to admit that I was against T.O. coming here when he was cut by Dallas. Then I thought twice when he was signed. He's a great player put on a team that needed some serious help at that position. We have nothing to lose, and our team is improved. Makes things more interesting for sure, which is why we are on the 17th page of this topic on a board devoted to an entirely different team.

And no-I don't think the AFCE's teams schedules are all that difficult. The only decent team in the AFCS is Indy(who should win their division easily). Otherwise, Tennessee will take a step back with the loss of Haynesworth and a QB problem. Jacksonville has problems, problems, problems. Houston, well...they're Houston. At least the Bills play Indy IN Buffalo this year. The NFCS won't be very strong this year. Carolina was lucky to win 1/2 of their games last year before crapping the bed in the playoffs, now Delhomme will be a year older and more washed up. Tampa is rebuilding, and they'll be starting an inexperienced QB. Atlanta overachieved last year, and now has alot of holes on defense. And New Orleans has a suspect defense.

This is always open to interpretation. You can't always go by last year's records, but as things stand right now, all three AFC East teams are all represented in the top 7 hardest schedules in 2009. You can say this or that, but teams change over a year with parody and all that happy crappy. But last year's records are all we have to go by at this point. If I knew who was going to win, I'd be a millionaire. And yes, it's even possible that the Bills win the division. Who would have thought that the Dolphins would have won the division after going 1-15 the year before, lucky to win that one game in overtime after the Ravens missed the winning kick?

The Cowboys were favorites to win the Super Bowl in a lot of circles, yet they didn't even make the playoffs.

Anything could happen, which makes it fun to follow.

I have a feeling the Bills will draft Pettigrew. If so, that offense will be dynamic.

I see you are informed. Pettigrew would be really nice to have. Edwards is an accurate passer. With Owens and Evans forcing opponents to respect our passing attack, this will force teams to take 8 men out of the box to stop the run. In effect, this will open a lot of underneath stuff for a good TE, not to mention Josh Reed, who can finally be utilized for his strengths.

I think the Bills might just as easily go DE in the draft, though. The Bills had no pass rush last year, which really hurt us, especially after Schobel got hurt relatively early on.

We need a G, TE, DE, LB, and possibly a Center. If we can get some quality players at these positions, the Bills will compete next year. We got a little banged up last year, which really made us look worse than we are. Kinda worried about the coaching, though.

 

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

feldspar-FWIW, there's no, No, NO EXCUSES for Tony Romo, Jason Garrett, and Wade Phillips this year.

If Romo acts like he's Favre again and keeps on forcing balls in double covered receivers, he no longer has this "But I have this 500 pd gorilla with the #81 on my back!".

Jason Garrett now has 3, THREE very good RBs to work with that also has different talents-Marion Barber, Felix Jones, and Tashard Choice...to boot the same guy who LOBBIED Jethro to dump TO now has the ENTIRE offseason to design plays for this trio-monster. If he gets stubborn in his pass-happy ways, calls plays requiring receivers to run 15-20 yards down the field, etc, then he no longer has this "But I was trying to appease #81's fragile ego from blowing up!" excuse.

And last, but not lease, Wade BETTER start installing discipline and accountability into this team. And he BETTER start whipping them up in the final stretch run called December. Otherwise, if he doesn't, he no longer has this, "But #81 prevented me from doing all this b/c with all the coddling I and my coaches gave him, it upset the rest of the team!" excuse.

Yes-while I gave your team warnings, at the SAME time, we are not, I repeat NOT out of the wood-works...as a matter of fact, we are a LONG way from it.

Like I said-Romo, Garrett, and Phillips better look at themselves long and hard in the mirror before camps start. There are going to be NO whipping boys and excuses for the Cowboys this year.

 

[feldspar]

You see, that's the problem. He doesn't hold himself accountable and until he does the circus will continue.

It's like a drug addict who is held accountable for his actions by the law (i.e., getting busted with drugs and going to jail). Until that person admits he is an addict and holds himself responsible for his own actions, he will ultimately find himself back in jail. Public opinion/accountability doesn't change or alter a person's behavior only the individual themselves can change their behavior.

As you say, it will be interesting nonetheless. opcorn:

I see your analogy and have made the same one in the past. It's at least partly valid, I'll concede. But the analogy is a little extreme.

Owens seeks attention. Not only does he seek it, but he NEEDS it. That's most of his problem right there. He's rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, but it's questionable if he's even done half the things he is accused of...or found guilty of in the court of public opinion.

I swear to God, I've seen it over and over in the media. T.O. says something relatively harmless, then the press latches onto it like flies on crap and won't let it go. T.O. didn't really mean anything by it, everybody on the team says they have no problem with it after being asked repeatedly, and you hear about this comment on ESPN all week as the top story of the day. Then the fans talk about it because it's in the news. Now, T.O. isn't the type of personality to mince words and he never will be. Since he wants attention, he isn't going to keep totally quiet. It's a vicious circle, one he could break out of only if he were a different person entirely.

I'm not saying that he never steps out of line. Of course he does, which is how he got his reputation in the first place. But what I've just described is often the case. The media looks for things to nail him with. If it's not there, they can try to invent a controversy...and he is incapable of stepping out of his own way. Since he loves the spotlight, it's snowballed to epic proportions. I'm not sure if there is any way to reverse it now. He's been pigeon-holed...some of it is deserved, some of it isn't.

 

[feldspar]

feldspar-FWIW, there's no, No, NO EXCUSES for Tony Romo, Jason Garrett, and Wade Phillips this year.

If Romo acts like he's Favre again and keeps on forcing balls in double covered receivers, he no longer has this "But I have this 500 pd gorilla with the #81 on my back!".

Jason Garrett now has 3, THREE very good RBs to work with that also has different talents-Marion Barber, Felix Jones, and Tashard Choice...to boot the same guy who LOBBIED Jethro to dump TO now has the ENTIRE offseason to design plays for this trio-monster. If he gets stubborn in his pass-happy ways, calls plays requiring receivers to run 15-20 yards down the field, etc, then he no longer has this "But I was trying to appease #81's fragile ego from blowing up!" excuse.

And last, but not lease, Wade BETTER start installing discipline and accountability into this team. And he BETTER start whipping them up in the final stretch run called December. Otherwise, if he doesn't, he no longer has this, "But #81 prevented me from doing all this b/c with all the coddling I and my coaches gave him, it upset the rest of the team!" excuse.

Yes-while I gave your team warnings, at the SAME time, we are not, I repeat NOT out of the wood-works...as a matter of fact, we are a LONG way from it.

Like I said-Romo, Garrett, and Phillips better look at themselves long and hard in the mirror before camps start. There are going to be NO whipping boys and excuses for the Cowboys this year.

Thanks for being reasonable.

I don't think that anybody on your team has said it, but a lot of the general perception out there in the media and fanbase has completely scapegoated Owens as the Cowboys' main problem...or the Eagles'...or maybe even the 49ers. Such is not the case. Those teams have had several other problems.

People demonize Owens and blame him for ALL the team's problems sometimes. But the 49ers or the Eagles did not become better teams without him. They didn't see more success as far as I can remember. T.O. is an easy person to lay the blame on; now you don't have that outlet anymore.

And Wade Phillips is not the stand up and take charge type of person. It's not really necessary to be that type of guy to be successful, but the fact remains that he isn't. He's been criticized for being too laid back in Buffalo as well. Part of the reason why we let him go was because his buddy was the special teams coach, and he refused to fire him. We were the worst special teams in the league that year I think, and then the Music City Miracle happened. I guess he WAS standing up for himself that time, but for all the wrong reasons if you want to win ballgames. Also, we decided to go with Rob Johnson instead of Doug Flutie (who played the whole season except the last game and got us to that point) in the Music City Miracle. Stupid. I still think the Bills would have made it to the Super Bowl that year if Flutie was playing. We had the #1 defense, if I remember correctly. I heard it was Ralph Wilson's choice by a lot of credible sources to start Johnson, though.

I'm not sure who you are going to replace T.O. with and I know Roy Williams didn't really work out for you last year. You have to wonder how much of Romo's success had to do with T.O. And that whole Jessica Simpson thing...

One thing is for sure. The Cowboys can not use T.O. as an excuse anymore.

 

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

I see your analogy and have made the same one in the past. It's at least partly valid, I'll concede. But the analogy is a little extreme.

Owens seeks attention. Not only does he seek it, but he NEEDS it. That's most of his problem right there. He's rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, but it's questionable if he's even done half the things he is accused of...or found guilty of in the court of public opinion.

I swear to God, I've seen it over and over in the media. T.O. says something relatively harmless, then the press latches onto it like flies on crap and won't let it go. T.O. didn't really mean anything by it, everybody on the team says they have no problem with it after being asked repeatedly, and you hear about this comment on ESPN all week as the top story of the day. Then the fans talk about it because it's in the news. Now, T.O. isn't the type of personality to mince words and he never will be. Since he wants attention, he isn't going to keep totally quiet. It's a vicious circle, one he could break out of only if he were a different person entirely.

I'm not saying that he never steps out of line. Of course he does, which is how he got his reputation in the first place. But what I've just described is often the case. The media looks for things to nail him with. If it's not there, they can try to invent a controversy...and he is incapable of stepping out of his own way. Since he loves the spotlight, it's snowballed to epic proportions. I'm not sure if there is any way to reverse it now. He's been pigeon-holed...some of it is deserved, some of it isn't.

Better watch out for Skip Bayless on ESPN's First Take-he's notorious for being the world's biggest Cowboys hater, yes. However-he's also the world's biggest TO-hater to boot.

Even when TO was with the Eagles(a team Bayless is always in their jockstraps), he still was consistent in his daily bashings of him.