Defense fails again!

[bobgeorge]

The best Patriot defensive back on the field was honored at halftime. I say get him out of retirement and put him out there so that no more nobodies like Keller kill us again.

Bob G

 

[Wendel]

I get it. The problem is that your argument is not logic, it's the absence of logic.

Why do the mods let this poster personally insult people who criticize the Pats?

Simply posting "you have no logic" is not a valid or appropriate defense. This needs to be taken care of, this is a very legitimate thread.

 

[Deus Irae]

Ok, when the game was tied, the defense allowed the Jets to walk down field and score a touchdown. Then I will give the defense credit for giving the Pats one more chance to score with a minute left, which the Pats did. But as you and I know, defense wins championships and in overtime the Pats needed their defense to give their offense a chance to win the game. But the defense allowed the Jets to walk down field and win the game. So please tell me how my arguement lacks logic?

1.) How did the game get tied?

2.) How many points did the defense surrender in the second half?

3.) How many turnovers did the defense cause in the second half?

4.) Which Patriots defenders fumbled the ball upon making a reception?

5.) Which Patriots defender snapped the ball past the QB before the QB was ready for it and cost the team a golden scoring opportunity?

6.) Which Patriots defender blew a whistle for a non-existent holding call on a third down play that was stopped?

7.) What percentage of overtime games are won without the team that loses the coin toss ever even getting the ball?

9.) Do you even understand that giving up points does not = 'losing the game'?

Start by answering those questions and then we'll move on to more advanced things.

 

[Deus Irae]

You didn't address my argument. I spelled it out for you, as your brain seems to have trouble comprehending things.

If you want to blame the rules, go be an Indy fan or a Raiders fan. We are Patriots fans. Do you think Belichick will blame the rules for their loss? Do you think he would be that petty?

You didn't spell out anything, unless I missed a post. Your Q/A thing wasn't an argument. It was a pair of non sequiturs put together.

 

[neuronet]

The disjunctive syllogism.

Belichick won't blame the rules, he will focus on how the defense (and defensive coaching) should have been better. Anything else is insanity, just like every one of your comments on this thread.

Perhaps you should read the Defense fails patriots in the clutch article by Bob George on Pats.com.

We aren't saying that the defense sucks. We are saying that they blew it in OT. Why is it so hard for you to understand it? You are acting like someone who thinks the earth is flat. Or rather, like someone who thinks it is a sphere and is attacking other people that think it is a sphere and saying they are being illogical. You have already said the D screwed up. Now contribute to the thread by discussing it or leave.

 

[Phoenix111]

You all need to stop bickering and get back to the terrible D. I can barely watch this team anymore. Needs to go: 1) VRABEL!!!,2) Bruschi, 3) O neal, 4) Sanders, 5) Merriweather. And most importantly either Pees or take away BBs control of the D. Its almost embarrasing watching BB " leave his mark" on the D. Makes me think past superior personnel ( Bruschi in his prime, McGinnest, Johnson, Harrison in his prime, Vrabel in his prime, Law in his prime) made BB look better than he was.

 

[Marko]

Find another team? Who do some of you people think you are. Stop telling poeple to find another team, or acting like you are some superfan. You are some guy sitting at home, acting like you can tell people who they can root for. FAIL.

Quote of the year! This board goes so over the top sometimes.

 

[neuronet]

You all need to stop bickering and get back to the terrible D. I can barely watch this team anymore. Needs to go: 1) VRABEL!!!,2) Bruschi, 3) O neal, 4) Sanders, 5) Merriweather. And most importantly either Pees or take away BBs control of the D. Its almost embarrasing watching BB " leave his mark" on the D. Makes me think past superior personnel ( Bruschi in his prime, McGinnest, Johnson, Harrison in his prime, Vrabel in his prime, Law in his prime) made BB look better than he was.

Chicken little just a little bit?

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

1.) How did the game get tied?

2.) How many points did the defense surrender in the second half?
7 points. How many did they surrender in the first half? 24.


3.) How many turnovers did the defense cause in the second half?
1. Big deal.

4.) Which Patriots defenders fumbled the ball upon making a reception?
Ben Watson

5.) Which Patriots defender snapped the ball past the QB before the QB was ready for it and cost the team a golden scoring opportunity?
I don't think Koppen is a defender.

6.) Which Patriots defender blew a whistle for a non-existent holding call on a third down play that was stopped?
Would Vrabel really blow a whistle on himself? Do you want to rethink that question? According to the refs, he was holding. Get over it.

7.) What percentage of overtime games are won without the team that loses the coin toss ever even getting the ball?
Is that the best you can come up with? Do you want the Pats to be like the rest of the NFL? That is what a champion is, different from the rest of the pack.

9.) Do you even understand that giving up points does not = 'losing the game'?
Yes it does. Having your defense give up 27 and special teams giving up 7 isn't going to win you many games.

Start by answering those questions and then we'll move on to more advanced things.

Anything else? As I told you before, I don't care what the defense or offense did during those 4 quarters, it was a brand new game in overtime. Defense wins games, defense wins championships. Enough said.

 

[Deus Irae]

The disjunctive syllogism.

Belichick won't blame the rules, he will focus on how the defense (and defensive coaching) should have been better. Anything else is insanity, just like every one of your comments on this thread.

Perhaps you should read the Defense fails patriots in the clutch article by Bob George on Pats.com.

We aren't saying that the defense sucks. We are saying that they blew it in OT. Why is it so hard for you to understand it? You are acting like someone who thinks the earth is flat. Or rather, like someone who thinks it is a sphere and is attacking other people that think it is a sphere and saying they are being illogical. You have already said the D screwed up. Now contribute to the thread by discussing it or leave.

Dude, it was a brand new ball game in overtime. Everything the defense did between those 4 quarters didn't matter now. This was their chance to redeem themselves and they failed.

What are talking about? Here I'm saying that whatever the defense did the entire game didn't matter now because it was a brand new game in overtime but when they needed one stop, they didn't get it and you question my logic? Wow!

If those two quotes don't explain it to you, you're a lost cause. As you noted, I already pointed out the blown coverage on 3rd and 15, so my point is clearly not a claim of defensive perfection. You should be able to figure it out from there.

 

[neuronet]

Anything else? As I told you before, I don't care what the defense or offense did during those 4 quarters, it was a brand new game in overtime. Defense wins games, defense wins championships. Enough said.

Don't even try reasoning with it.

:disagreement:

 

[nepatz11]

Dont want to say the defense is awful they got some huge stops in the second half but on the two drives it most counted they were terrible! The OP is right this is a trend we can not get off the field in key spot after key spot. To give up two 14 play drives like that in those two spots is an embarrassment to this defense. Oh yeah and Merriweather, who I called an emerging star on this board two weeks ago, sucked tonight and got embarassed on the thrid and 15 play.

 

[Deus Irae]

1.) How did the game get tied?

You didn't answer this one

2.) How many points did the defense surrender in the second half?
7 points. How many did they surrender in the first half? 24.

Wrong.

3.) How many turnovers did the defense cause in the second half?
1. Big deal.

It is a big deal. Of course, you choose to ignore it because it undercuts your argument, as I will point out below.

4.) Which Patriots defenders fumbled the ball upon making a reception?
Ben Watson

Watson is an offensive player. He fumble the ball on the Jets 22 yard line. In other words, he cost the team a likely minimum of 3 points. Those 3 points win the game for the Patriots in regulation.

5.) Which Patriots defender snapped the ball past the QB before the QB was ready for it and cost the team a golden scoring opportunity?
I don't think Koppen is a defender.

He's not, which is the point. The Patriots had 1st and 10 on the Jets 38 before that bad snap. A field goal or touchdown was very possible, if not likely. Again, points there and the Patriots win the game.

6.) Which Patriots defender blew a whistle for a non-existent holding call on a third down play that was stopped?
Would Vrabel really blow a whistle on himself? Do you want to rethink that question? According to the refs, he was holding. Get over it.

It wasn't a hold, as Collinsworth pointed out repeatedly during the replays. That call was a 4 point difference.

7.) What percentage of overtime games are won without the team that loses the coin toss ever even getting the ball?
Is that the best you can come up with? Do you want the Pats to be like the rest of the NFL? That is what a champion is, different from the rest of the pack.

Your response isn't even an argument. The Patriots are a team trying to win football games. The odds are stacked against teams who lose the coin toss.

9.) Do you even understand that giving up points does not = 'losing the game'?
Yes it does. Having your defense give up 27 and special teams giving up 7 isn't going to win you many games.

Hmmm.....:

ESPN - Turnovers, early deficits lead to losses - NFL

This is a tried-and-true truism of the NFL -- what's surprising is the gravity of the number. Lose the turnover battle and you'll lose four games out of five.

While giving up points isn't a good thing under most circumstances, it does not equal losing the game. Only one team in history has gone undefeated, and they allowed points, thus eliminating your argument from any claim to being correct logic. However, the correlations for the lost turnover battle is something you completely ignored, along with pretty much everything else.

Start by answering those questions and then we'll move on to more advanced things.


Anything else?

No need. Your failure on these basic questions illustrates my point.

 

[PrairiePat]

Y
It wasn't a hold, as Collinsworth pointed out repeatedly during the replays. That call was a 4 point difference.

Stop it with your whining over the penalty, OK? If the Jets kick the FG instead of scoring the TD, we would have kicked a FG to tie it on the last drive in regulation rather than having Moss make that highlight-reel catch for the TD.

Either way, it doesn't change the outcome at all, so drop it.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

Don't forget our god-damn awful kick coverage. Gave up a td. And, great field
position in the first half.

Im glad to see someone finally mentioned this. ST's have been good all year, but tonight was below average. The defense made some good plays tonight. They just blew a coverage when they needed it most.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The disjunctive syllogism.

Belichick won't blame the rules, he will focus on how the defense (and defensive coaching) should have been better. Anything else is insanity, just like every one of your comments on this thread.

Perhaps you should read the Defense fails patriots in the clutch article by Bob George on Pats.com.

We aren't saying that the defense sucks. We are saying that they blew it in OT. Why is it so hard for you to understand it? You are acting like someone who thinks the earth is flat. Or rather, like someone who thinks it is a sphere and is attacking other people that think it is a sphere and saying they are being illogical. You have already said the D screwed up. Now contribute to the thread by discussing it or leave.

I try not to read bob's articles because I lose enough brain cells reading posts on this board without adding insult to injury.

It should never have come to OT, for lots of reasons. The defense finally staunched the bleeding caused in large part by ST and gave the offense multiple opportunities to redeem itself not only by closing the gap but obliteraterating it. Mistakes cost them those opportunities on two of three drives to start the second half and ultimately put them in a position where they were at the mercy of a coin flip and more one sided officiating while playing a patchwork defense fielding 3 backups all evening.

We marched down the field to tie it on our last drive. What was the JETS defense performing like at full strength?

They lost as a team. Sad thing is the same people eviscerating the defense for that OT performance would have been eviscerating the offense had it not made one play with 1 second remaining in regulation for letting down the defense...

And the really funny part is everyone has let ST off the hook altogether...

 

[Deus Irae]

Stop it with your whining over the penalty, OK? If the Jets kick the FG instead of scoring the TD, we would have kicked a FG to tie it on the last drive in regulation rather than having Moss make that highlight-reel catch for the TD.

Either way, it doesn't change the outcome at all, so drop it.

I'm not whining about the penalty. In context, I'm noting that it cost the team 4 points. Have a nice night.

 

[Deus Irae]

I try not to read bob's articles because I lose enough brain cells reading posts on this board without adding insult to injury.

It should never have come to OT, for lots of reasons. The defense finally staunched the bleeding caused in large part by ST and gave the offense multiple opportunities to redeem itself not only by closing the gap but obliteraterating it. Mistakes cost them those opportunities on two of three drives to start the second half and ultimately put them in a position where they were at the mercy of a coin flip and more one sided officiating while playing a patchwork defense fielding 3 backups all evening.

We marched down the field to tie it on our last drive. What was the JETS defense performing like at full strength?

They lost as a team. Sad thing is the same people eviscerating the defense for that OT performance would have been eviscerating the offense had it not made one play with 1 second remaining in regulation for letting down the defense...

And the really funny part is everyone has let ST off the hook altogether...

Yep..... that's why I mentioned pruning.

 

[bronk37]

the Jets are killing me the last time I went to the Jets Pats game was 2002 right before christmass and pennington ruined that tonite again, no more pats jets games for me. also would the broncos consider taking watson in exchange for graham? man i wish we ponied up for assante now he made a huge difference in the secondary

 

[neuronet]

Sad thing is the same people eviscerating the defense for that OT performance would have been eviscerating the offense had it not made one play with 1 second remaining in regulation for letting down the defense...

And the really funny part is everyone has let ST off the hook altogether...

Nobody has let ST off the hook. This thread is about the OT.

If they hadn't made that play at the end of regulation, nobody would blame the offense. That was a beautiful set of downs, but nobody expects them to score with one time out, so little time. I'd still blame the defense for allowing the 7 minute drive (and I'd reserve a little anger for that holding call).

Jeez. People here are weird. Focus on one problem area, and they point out all the others, as if that erases the focus. There are lots of problem areas, and it is fine if a thread focuses on one. The thread title is no exaggeration.

How do you think they would describe OT as a defensive unit? A success? Lord have mercy if you don't like the focus start a different thread.

Main point:
3rd and 15: WFT
Loose coverage in sudden death play: WTF

'nuf said.

:deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse: