WR depth chart?

[mgteich]

We've needed an outside and intermediate receiver since Edelman arrived. As you said, Edelman has beaten out by Ochocinco and Branch. I suppose we should go back and see who else. In any case, we've looking for a receiver for years.

The excuse is that Edelman is a fine slot receiver, but not an outside or intermediate receiver. If that is the case, Edelman is now the backup to Amendola, as he was the backup to Welker, hopefully never to see the field.

What was so great about Chad "Ochostinko" Johnson in his last season with the New England Patriots? What was so great about Deion Branch last season with the New England Patriots?

 

[Brady6]

So you expect Aaron Dobson to record one the best rookie wide receiver seasons since the AFL-NFL merger?

Player Season Finder Query Results - Pro-Football-Reference.com

AT my expectation is that a 6'3, 210 pounder, who runs a 4.37 40, who is reported to have excellent hands, and who will be the primary outside receiver (X) on a team with Tom Brady throwing the football can put up comparable statistics to a player who has similar measurable and Andy Dalton passing him the football. If that puts him in class of HOF like Michael Clayton and Eddie Royal then I guess the answer to you're question is yes that is what I expect.

Ok so the last sentence was smug but honestly we are talking about 65 catches for 1050 yard, I am not saying he is going to rewrite the record books, I am just saying if Andy Dalton and A.J. Green can do it I see absolutely no reason Tom Brady and Aaron Dobson cannot do it.

If you don't agree no hard feeling brother on my end anyway, maybe I'm being overly optimistic eace:

 

[mgteich]

The issue is not whether this COULD happen or not. The question is how likely is it to happen. There many examples of top receivers who do poorly in their rookie years, Of course, there are many more examples of mediocre receivers that do poorly their first year.
So, sure Dobson MIGHT have 65 catches for 1000 yards (roughly replacing Lloyd's production). Dobson could be the first rookie since Branch to succeed for the pats, or not.

Some think that if Edelman is put in the #2 position that he might have the same production you seek. After all, he knows the system.

Others think that Jenkins could pull this off. Some think Boyce. Some even think Thompkins.

So, sure Dobson COULD be the best rookie in a decade. What seems more likely is that whoever Belichick chooses as our #2 will get that kind of production if he stays healthy. After all, for Lloyd this production was a function of how many time he was thrown to. He did not ahve a high completion percentage and he had awful YAC producttion.

AT my expectation is that a 6'3, 210 pounder, who runs a 4.37 40, who is reported to have excellent hands, and who will be the primary outside receiver (X) on a team with Tom Brady throwing the football can put up comparable statistics to a player who has similar measurable and Andy Dalton passing him the football. If that puts him in class of HOF like Michael Clayton and Eddie Royal then I guess the answer to you're question is yes that is what I expect.

Ok so the last sentence was smug but honestly we are talking about 65 catches for 1050 yard, I am not saying he is going to rewrite the record books, I am just saying if Andy Dalton and A.J. Green can do it I see absolutely no reason Tom Brady and Aaron Dobson cannot do it.

If you don't agree no hard feeling brother on my end anyway, maybe I'm being overly optimistic eace:

 

[Ozymandias]

AT my expectation is that a 6'3, 210 pounder, who runs a 4.37 40, who is reported to have excellent hands, and who will be the primary outside receiver (X) on a team with Tom Brady throwing the football can put up comparable statistics to a player who has similar measurable and Andy Dalton passing him the football.

Ok so the last sentence was smug but honestly we are talking about 65 catches for 1050 yard, I am not saying he is going to rewrite the record books, I am just saying if Andy Dalton and A.J. Green can do it I see absolutely no reason Tom Brady and Aaron Dobson cannot do it

Dobson doesn't run in the 4.3s, he ran a 4.43 officially at the combine. Pro day times are often exaggerated. Beyond that, you're comparing him to A.J. Green based on their measurable, I'm sure there are lots of players with Green's measurable but not his intangibles (e.g., hands, body control, ball location).

Part of the reason why Green had such a great rookie season was because he was the undisputed #1 target for the Bengals from the day they drafted him and rightfully so. A rare talent like that doesn't grow on trees. Dobson might be great or not, but one thing that is clear will be the fact that he won't be the guy in New England like Green was in Cincinnati, he'll likely be the third option at best. Thus, it's highly unlikely that he comes close to eclipsing Green's 2011 output and if he does, then that would mean the first two options either flopped or would be hurt most of the time - either of which is not a good thing.

 

[tonyto3690]

I actually posted this in the Dobson thread; it is basically a breakdown of Dobson against the 3 taller/bigger wide receivers who entered the NFL and have been very productive. Dobson stacks up well, as I said in the other thread I think if he was able to participate at the combine and put up these metrics he'd been a top 25 pick.

When I look at the list I think Dobson compares favorable to A.J. Green; Dobson also from what I've read has very good hands and is a good route runner. I seriously see know reason that Aaron Dobson with Tom Brady throwing him the football cannot have similar production to the 65 receptions, 1057 yards, and 7 touchdowns that A.J. Green had with a rookie Andy Dalton as his QB.

Player   	Height	Weight	40	20	10	Bench  Vert	Broad	 20Shuf 3 Cone
A Dobson   	6'3	210	4.37	2.6	1.51	16	35	10.01	4.33	7.19
A.J. Green	6'4	211	4.48	2.53	1.55	18	34.5	10.06	4.21	6.91
Julio Jones	6'3	220	4.34	2.47	1.5	17	38.5	N/A	4.25	6.66
Dez Bryant	6'2	224	4.52	2.51	1.53	14	38	11.01	4.46	7.1

Gholston compared pretty favorably to Demarcus Ware too, didn't he?

AT my expectation is that a 6'3, 210 pounder, who runs a 4.37 40, who is reported to have excellent hands, and who will be the primary outside receiver (X) on a team with Tom Brady throwing the football can put up comparable statistics to a player who has similar measurable and Andy Dalton passing him the football. If that puts him in class of HOF like Michael Clayton and Eddie Royal then I guess the answer to you're question is yes that is what I expect.

Ok so the last sentence was smug but honestly we are talking about 65 catches for 1050 yard, I am not saying he is going to rewrite the record books, I am just saying if Andy Dalton and A.J. Green can do it I see absolutely no reason Tom Brady and Aaron Dobson cannot do it.

If you don't agree no hard feeling brother on my end anyway, maybe I'm being overly optimistic eace:

You can't possibly be serious.

Dobson's ceiling is probably Green's rookie season. Dobson will probably never see the coverage that Green saw even in his rookie season (and still beat).

Next you'll be saying that Dobson will beat out Moss' rookie season.

I hate comparing rookies to players with NFL experience but I'm going to for the sake of this discussion.

Would you still make that trade if,

Dobson = A.J. Green?

*A.J. Green*|*Georgia,*WR*:*2011 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile

Aaron Dobson*|*Marshall,*WR*:*2013 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile

Boyce = Cobb

*Randall Cobb*|*Kentucky,*WR*:*2011 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile

*Josh Boyce*|*TCU,*WR*:*2013 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile

Now I'm not saying they will; all I'm saying is they have just as much talent, and do you want to take a chance of trading 2 guys who could be impact players on a rookie contract for the next 4-5 years for 1 guy who is on a huge contract and is well into the second half of his career?

P.S. I never took a hard look at Boyce's combine numbers, guys a freak, explosive as hell. I find myself suddenly very excited for Boyce :woohoo:

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hahahahahahahahahahaha

 

[tonyto3690]

Mark Harrison is the same height as Dobson and had the same 40 time BUT...

He's 40 pounds heavier, 4 inch better vertical, and .2 better 3 cone drill.


Dobson = AJ Green
Harrison > Dobson
Therefore Harrison is better than AJ Green!

Man we are going to have the best WR tandem in NFL history this season.

 

[Brady6]

Dobson doesn't run in the 4.3s, he ran a 4.43 officially at the combine. Pro day times are often exaggerated. Beyond that, you're comparing him to A.J. Green based on their measurable, I'm sure there are lots of players with Green's measurable but not his intangibles (e.g., hands, body control, ball location).

Dobson did not participate in on field activities at the combine due to a hamstring injury.

I'm not saying Dobson is as good as A.J. Green for the record, I'm saying he has similar measurable, and is reported to have good intangibles, and they very well may not be as good as Green's but I can tell you for an absolute fact he will have a much, much better QB throwing him the football, one would hope that would close the gap.

I'm not trying to force my opinion down anyone's throat including yours so if you disagree that is absolutely fine, I could be wrong, lets not turn this into a :boxing: match, I respect your viewpoint and see the validity of it.

 

[Brady6]

Dobson's ceiling is probably Green's rookie season. Dobson will probably never see the coverage that Green saw even in his rookie season (and still beat).

Do you have anything to support this (measurable, college stats, etc.)? Or is your pessimistic attitude the reason I should believe what is written?

Next you'll be saying that Dobson will beat out Moss' rookie season.

No I won't, there is a major difference between Dobson and Moss that gap is not nearly as big between Dobson and Green.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hahahahahahahahahahaha

You do not have to agree with what I write on here; but you do not need to behave immaturely and be disrespectful, I would not treat you like that. I can accept your opinions even if I do not agree with them, I'd appreciate it if you reciprocated.

 

[Ring 6]

Do you have anything to support this (measurable, college stats, etc.)? Or is your pessimistic attitude the reason I should believe what is written?



No I won't, there is a major difference between Dobson and Moss that gap is not nearly as big between Dobson and Green.



You do not have to agree with what I write on here; but you do not need to behave immaturely and be disrespectful, I would not treat you like that. I can accept your opinions even if I do not agree with them, I'd appreciate it if you reciprocated.

I think the correct response to you is that your expectations seems very optimistic and are not extemely likely.
I get your point that he will be in a position to succeed if he starting and on the field with Brady, Gronk, and Amendola as well as Ridley/Vereen and Ballard/whoever.
However there have been MANY players that you could make the measurables argument about who never amounted to anything and many more who were not great rookies.
You seem to be looking for the perfect rookie season for Dobson, and while it could happen, the liklihood is not great.
That said, it is your opinion, and I agree the immaturity of the responses you are getting is disappointing. Welcome to Patsfans, that is one of its dynamics, unfortunately.

 

[Brady6]

I think the correct response to you is that your expectations seems very optimistic and are not extemely likely.
I get your point that he will be in a position to succeed if he starting and on the field with Brady, Gronk, and Amendola as well as Ridley/Vereen and Ballard/whoever.
However there have been MANY players that you could make the measurables argument about who never amounted to anything and many more who were not great rookies.
You seem to be looking for the perfect rookie season for Dobson, and while it could happen, the liklihood is not great.
That said, it is your opinion, and I agree the immaturity of the responses you are getting is disappointing. Welcome to Patsfans, that is one of its dynamics, unfortunately.

I agree Andy I'm being extremely optimistic; I generally refrain from getting ahead of myself in terms of putting stock in players, but I see Dobson as a player that we have to roll with, like we did last year with Jones and Hightower. If that is the case between the current injuries and players like Amendola, Edelman, Gronkowski and others who have a history of missing time during the season I think Dobson will have plenty of opportunity to match the output of A.J. Green's 65 rec, 1057 yard rookie season.

I do appreciate you understanding my perspective and being respectful in your response Andy, I'm by no means saying I'm right and everyone else is wrong, the percentages would actually reflect the opposite.

 

[tonyto3690]

Do you have anything to support this (measurable, college stats, etc.)? Or is your pessimistic attitude the reason I should believe what is written?

I don't need to create a huge argument. I have thousands of previous players on my side to prove what I'm saying is the rule, not the exception. You pointing to 40 times and height to prove he will be the equivalent is quite frankly, idiotic. YOU have the burden of proving your point, not me.

No I won't, there is a major difference between Dobson and Moss that gap is not nearly as big between Dobson and Green.

No it's not. Green was already considered a top 10 WR his rookie season. You either did not see him play or are purposefully undermining how good he really was.

You do not have to agree with what I write on here; but you do not need to behave immaturely and be disrespectful, I would not treat you like that. I can accept your opinions even if I do not agree with them, I'd appreciate it if you reciprocated.

I'm respectful to opinions that deserve respect. Yours is based on nothing but flimsy measurables, measurables that hundreds and thousands of other players have had yet never come close to Greens rookie season.

In fact I'm waiting on your explanation on how UDFA Harrison- who has better measurables in every way, fits into your argument.

 

[ATippett56]

Ok so the last sentence was smug but honestly we are talking about 65 catches for 1050 yard, I am not saying he is going to rewrite the record books, I am just saying if Andy Dalton and A.J. Green can do it I see absolutely no reason Tom Brady and Aaron Dobson cannot do it.

If you don't agree no hard feeling brother on my end anyway, maybe I'm being overly optimistic eace:

Since you obviously ignored the fact that A.J. Green was a top ten prospect in the 2011 NFL Draft who incidentally played in the SEC, I'll leave you to your fantasy league prognostications.

 

[tonyto3690]

Since you obviously ignored the fact that A.J. Green was a top ten prospect in the 2011 NFL Draft who incidentally played in the SEC, I'll leave you to your fantasy league prognostications.

Many had him as the best prospect.

Newton was a QB
Miller many thought would be a bust


Looking at the draft... I'm glad we have Solder, but imagine if the Raiders didn't have the miraculous 1 year run of the past decade? They were supposed to be a top 5 pick.

Imagine any of Green, Miller, or Peterson on our roster now. Ugh.

 

[jah]

Remember Mike Rivera last preseason? PS guy his whole career, not on anyone's radar, looks solid enough to make the roster all of the sudden.

I think Kamar Aiken might be that guy this year.

 

[ATippett56]

Remember Mike Rivera last preseason? PS guy his whole career, not on anyone's radar, looks solid enough to make the roster all of the sudden.

Linebacker Dane Fletcher tore his ACL in the first preseason game last year.

 

[jah]

Linebacker Dane Fletcher tore his ACL in the first preseason game last year.

True. Let's hope if Aiken makes the team, it's not that way.

 

[ATippett56]

Looking at the draft... I'm glad we have Solder, but imagine if the Raiders didn't have the miraculous 1 year run of the past decade?

I did not have a problem with the Nate Solder selection in the first round of the 2011 NFL Draft.

The Glass-IR Dowling selection in the 2011 NFL Draft with the 33rd overall pick still bothers me to this day. Randall Cobb ... SEC ... wide receiver ... cough ... cough ... cough.

 

[NEPettyOfficer72]

Anybody want to touch on Mark Harrison, I know he is a physical freak of nature and rare specimen for wide receiver. Will he be around or what? I've heard other teams on other forums talk about him often. Here is what my dad said, " Well, the Harrison guy is T.O on steroids and his presence is larger then life athletically, but his competition is crowded and I think if anything he needs to get past that Thompkins kid, which the way that kid is playing right now it will be hard for Harrison, but then again when you have a guy like that athletically and physically you can do so much on offense. And who better to play with then one of the game's top 1 or 2 elite passers". Me honestly, he offers a lot but I like Thompkins, and his ability and EFFORT. I haven't heard enough of Mark Harrison during this offseason so far, but hey camp is here. What do you all think about him?

 

[Brady6]

I don't need to create a huge argument. I have thousands of previous players on my side to prove what I'm saying is the rule, not the exception. You pointing to 40 times and height to prove he will be the equivalent is quite frankly, idiotic. YOU have the burden of proving your point, not me.

I already offered a valid argument, comparable, similar college statistics, and scouting reports suggesting he has good intangibles. You're the one that offered NOTHING at all :blabla:.


Here is one of the dozens of articles on the internet that speak to Dobson's intangibles and skill set. Not sure why I'm posting it because I do not expect you to do anything but find something negative to write in response though :idontgetit:

2013 NFL Draft Scouting Report: Aaron Dobson - WR, Marshall - Stampede Blue

I'm respectful to opinions that deserve respect. Yours is based on nothing but flimsy measurables, measurables that hundreds and thousands of other players have had yet never come close to Greens rookie season.

You're actually not respectful; to be honest you basically troll around this forum being as negative and argumentative about any topic as possible, you offer no basis for what you're saying except for your pessimistic thoughts :rant:.

You have posts complaining about the Raiders draft pick which netted Solder as a what could of been, you do realize 3 of the top 4 picks this year were LT right? Receiving a franchise LT as compensation still leaves room for 'what could of been". You're like the lady with a Virginia ham complaining that you don't have enough bread :violin:.

You also do not even know what you're are talking about; I clearly wrote in my post that Dobson has good intangibles such as hands, route running, etc but yet you ignore that for the sake of making your argument :suspicious:.

frankly, idiotic

If that is idiotic; imagine how idiotic signing up for a patriots fans forum only to parade around being a negative Nancy or Debbie downer appears :trolls:.

On the subject of being frank with each other; I frankly could care less what your opinion is so moving forward do not waste either of our time by responding to my post :wave:.

 

[Brady6]

Since you obviously ignored the fact that A.J. Green was a top ten prospect in the 2011 NFL Draft who incidentally played in the SEC, I'll leave you to your fantasy league prognostications.

I did not ignore anything; A.J. Green is probably a better player than Dobson, but as Giselle once pointed out it takes 2 players to create an NFL reception and Brady is worlds better then Dalton so that should close easily compensate for the gap between Dobson and Green.

I also NEVER said Dobson would be as good a player as Green, I said he could have as productive a season as the 65 rec, 1057 yard rookie season Green put up.

If you disagree as I said no hard feelings, lets just keep it moving because this is my stance on the situation. If I'm wrong feel free to call me out in January 2014.