Would you trade Peppers for Seymour???

[ctpatsfan77]

His physical abilities. The guy really is a freak.

So is/was Vernon Gholston.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Re: Would you trade Peppers for Seymour ???

Do I want to trade the best 3-4 defensive end of his generation for a lesser player who's looking for a huge contract?

I'll pass, thanks.

listen to this guy.......he's right........this time

no way would I trade seymour for peppers

 

[Grizzafted]

Re: Would you trade Peppers for Seymour ???

No Im a Patriots fan, who doesnt want an overpaid whiny underachiever on my team.

Are you kidding me?

What kind of an idiot would describe the premier 3-4 defensive end in the league this way?

I'm sorry but this is definitely a "men from the boys" type of thread. The people throwing Sey under the bus don't understand football. If we can get Wilfork extended, Sey may even be franchised next year.

 

[Grizzafted]

Peppers is a total unknown I really don't understand why people are so quick to want to pay him 7-8 million as a conversion project at a position he hasn't played, and give up draft picks in an incredibly deep draft where we have great pick numbers.

Thank god for Belichick....

 

[Patsrock]

Another thing, say the Pats did this trade. You still will 6 million on the cap for Seymour. plus whatever Peppers makes.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

So is/was Vernon Gholston.

You asked why people thought that It's a gamble to make the conversion, but considering the guy is a film junky and works hard, in addition to his physical talents, it seems likely. Either way, he's proven himself in the NFL, and Gholston hasn't yet.

Likely isn't a certaintly though, and that's why Peppers would need to take a huge pay cut to move to a 3-4 team.

 

[Boston Boxer]

no way do i want to trade for Peppers. No need to trade Sey in a contract year.

 

[Reaper]

No! we should keep him and wait to see what he decides in doing next year.

 

[mgcolby]

Re: Would you trade Peppers for Seymour ???

Peppers in not a 3-4 DE, and simply isn't built to be one. Seymour is great, and if he had been healthy most of his career, would be a lock for the HOF. Unless the Pats were planning on becoming a 4-3 team, the idea simply doesn't work.

All that being said, it's pretty amazing that some of you are calling Seymour the BEST 3-4 DE in the game. He hasn't been on the field enough to earn that distinction, and even if he had, he still would not hold the undisputed title of the best.... but at least the argument would make sense in that context.

Just curious but who would you consider the best 3-4 DE in the game?

 

[mgcolby]

So is/was Vernon Gholston.

That is a terrible comparison. Vernon Gholtston had people questioning his abilities as a 3-4 OLB and as a 4-3 end coming out of college. He has yet to play either position at a pro-bowl level in the NFL. Peppers has been a dominant 4-3 end for years at the pro level and has the speed, quickness and size to be a potential dominating 3-4 OLB. I realize he hasn't proven it "yet", but he definitely possesses all of the physical characteristics to be successful.

Jason Taylor would be the best comparison.

 

[Synovia]

Its a simple question, I know its taboo, to think about getting rid of Big Sey.. But its his last year, and would he come back??? Im not saying he is a stiff, but what has seymoer done since he signed that 4 year ext in 06..

06 - Fair, but was missing alot, got hurt against Indy..
07 - PUP, came back but was not the same..
08 - Again, just fair IMO...

If you think Seymour was "Fair" in 2008, you don't understand the patriots defense. 2008 may have been his best year as a pro.


I'm not trading an elite player at DE, for a player who would have to move positions.

 

[Frezo]

Jason Taylor would be the best comparison.

I think D. Ware is a better comparison. Both are sack artists, 4-3 DEs, physical freaks and IMO well suited to be an OLB in a 3-4.

 

[APatrioticVirginian]

If you think Seymour was "Fair" in 2008, you don't understand the patriots defense. 2008 may have been his best year as a pro.


I'm not trading an elite player at DE, for a player who would have to move positions.

Seymour quietly flew under the radar last season,he accomplished that by not making any big plays or seeming to give effort.

 

[mgcolby]

I think D. Ware is a better comparison. Both are sack artists, 4-3 DEs, physical freaks and IMO well suited to be an OLB in a 3-4.

That makes sense, but I was looking more for someone who played the 4-3 DE position in the NFL prior to converting.

 

[mgcolby]

Seymour quietly flew under the radar last season,he accomplished that by not making any big plays or seeming to give effort.

At what point do you stop and realize that you do not know what you are talking about?

A 3-4 DE's job in a two-gap system is eat up blockers to allow the OLB to make plays. If the DE makes a play in the process then it is a bonus. But it IS NOT HIS JOB TO MAKE THE PLAY!!!

And before you bring up a DE from San Diego, Dallas, Baltimore etc... you have to realize they play a one-gap system. It lessens the overall responsibility of the linemen and allows them to penetrate a lot easier.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Would you trade Peppers for Seymour ???

What do you mean the Pats defense on their right end is 2nd in the league? What are we measuring here? Yards?

Check out Football Outsiders. I believe its adjusted yards per carry (adjusted for how good the offense is, for instance), breaking it down based upon where they run the ball.

I always take metrics w a grain of salt, but I re-watched a handful of Patriots games in "slow-mo" for a closer look last year. And there's no doubt - the tape backs up the metrics here. Seymour was dominant against the run.

Not to take anything away from Mayo, who did an amazing job as a rook and earned his DROY, but do people honestly think he would've racked up those tackles if he had Jarvis Green and Mike Wright in front of him? No, Seymour, Vince and Ty do the dirty work and keep those blockers off the ILBs.

 

[QB12]

Re: Would you trade Peppers for Seymour ???

Seymour was owned by the Chargers then-rookie left tackle Marcus McNeil in the 2006 AFC Divisional Playoff in San Diego (where LT blew up after the game).

And can we just agree to disagree on this subject? Why are some Seymour apologists questioning the intelligence or competency of those who would dare to disagree with THEIR opinion that Seymour is Canton-bound?

QB12

 

[Mogamedogz]

No way would I ever trade Seymour in a contract year. He is going to play all 16 and have a monster season. Hopefully they will have Big Vince and Mankins all locked up so they can tag Seymour next off-season.

 

[Sicilian]

Re: Would you trade Peppers for Seymour ???

Seymour was owned by the Chargers then-rookie left tackle Marcus McNeil in the 2006 AFC Divisional Playoff in San Diego (where LT blew up after the game).

And can we just agree to disagree on this subject? Why are some Seymour apologists questioning the intelligence or competency of those who would dare to disagree with THEIR opinion that Seymour is Canton-bound?

QB12

He was the best defensive player on a three time super bowl winning team. A couple of bad seasons, in which injury played a large factor IMO, do not undo the great things he's done for this organization. Not to mention he had a bounce back year last year, in which our defense overall lacked any playmakers behind him.

But ignoring all that, even if you don't agree with his HOF credentials, does the alternative opinion have to be that he's a lazy, overrated, non-playmaker, who should be traded or cut?

The outrage isn't at the opinion that he's not the best DE in football, it's at this notion that somehow he's not even a GOOD DE, which speaks to a complete lack of football knowledge.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

Re: Would you trade Peppers for Seymour ???

Just curious but who would you consider the best 3-4 DE in the game?

I'm no NFL scout, and I simply don't watch enough other teams regularly, but I don't think there is a clear cut best 3-4 DE in the league. I'd probably pick Sey, but I'm a little biased, and I've seen a lot more of him than anyone else. Heck, you don't have to look past the Patriots to find someone that could be in that argument. Ty Warren doesn't get the stats, but that's because NOBODY runs at him. I would put Justin Smith in that category , but he's only been doing a 3-4 since 2008. He's a natural with it and a beast. Although I'm not sure if Baltimore was running the 3-4 back then, my memories of Michael McCrary put him in the same category as Seymor. Because Sey hasn't stayed on the field, I think Aaron Smith could be in the arguement, even though he's not much of a pass rusher (I don't think pass rushing is primary job of a DE in the 3-4). A few could argue for Jason Taylor, since Miami did quite a bit of 3-4 at times, but he's not good enough against the run for me to consider him. Some will say Shaun Ellis cuz of his stats, but he isn't even in the conversation. He might get flashy numbers, but he doesn't draw the double team like Sey. I admit, I watch a lot less of other teams than I'd like, so there is (or was) probably some more obscure guys like Warren who no one runs at at, but I honestly couldn't name them.

My objection was that people called him "the best 3-4 DE of his generation". That implies hands down, and clearly, a guy who's been injured (and played injured) as much as he has simply can't be considered the best, "hands down". If he'd been on the field for most of his career, maybe you could say that, but that simply is not the case. He's still got a couple years left yet though, and if he stays healthy, he could put up some crazy numbers.