Would you trade Peppers for Seymour???

[tanked_as_usual]

Re: Would you trade Peppers for Seymour ???

I'm no NFL scout, and I simply don't watch enough other teams regularly, but I don't think there is a clear cut best 3-4 DE in the league. I'd probably pick Sey, but I'm a little biased, and I've seen a lot more of him than anyone else. Heck, you don't have to look past the Patriots to find someone that could be in that argument. Ty Warren doesn't get the stats, but that's because NOBODY runs at him. I would put Justin Smith in that category , but he's only been doing a 3-4 since 2008. He's a natural with it and a beast. Although I'm not sure if Baltimore was running the 3-4 back then, my memories of Michael McCrary put him in the same category as Seymor. Because Sey hasn't stayed on the field, I think Aaron Smith could be in the arguement, even though he's not much of a pass rusher (I don't think pass rushing is primary job of a DE in the 3-4). A few could argue for Jason Taylor, since Miami did quite a bit of 3-4 at times, but he's not good enough against the run for me to consider him. Some will say Shaun Ellis cuz of his stats, but he isn't even in the conversation. He might get flashy numbers, but he doesn't draw the double team like Sey. I admit, I watch a lot less of other teams than I'd like, so there is (or was) probably some more obscure guys like Warren who no one runs at at, but I honestly couldn't name them.

My objection was that people called him "the best 3-4 DE of his generation". That implies hands down, and clearly, a guy who's been injured (and played injured) as much as he has simply can't be considered the best, "hands down". If he'd been on the field for most of his career, maybe you could say that, but that simply is not the case. He's still got a couple years left yet though, and if he stays healthy, he could put up some crazy numbers.

taylor, smith and mccrary are simply not 3-4 DE's ....... if and when those guys played in the 3-4, they did so at OLB

care to re-try your statement??????

 

[Rob0729]

Seymour quietly flew under the radar last season,he accomplished that by not making any big plays or seeming to give effort.

Seymour led the team in sacks which also tied his career record. I would say that Seymour had his fair share of big plays last season. He did give an effort last year too. He probably flew under the radar since people only want to talk about him anymore is when he is struggling. I remember several games where he was the standout player even if his stats didn't reflect it.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Would you trade Peppers for Seymour ???

Seymour was owned by the Chargers then-rookie left tackle Marcus McNeil in the 2006 AFC Divisional Playoff in San Diego (where LT blew up after the game).

And can we just agree to disagree on this subject? Why are some Seymour apologists questioning the intelligence or competency of those who would dare to disagree with THEIR opinion that Seymour is Canton-bound?

QB12

Probably because of the idiotic arguments being used by those bashing Seymour.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Would you trade Peppers for Seymour ???

taylor, smith and mccrary are simply not 3-4 DE's ....... if and when those guys played in the 3-4, they did so at OLB

care to re-try your statement??????

Yeah, Taylor had an outstanding season in the 3-4 in Miami, but it was at OLB. No way could he be a DE in the 3-4. He would get eaten alive.

 

[Mogamedogz]

Re: Would you trade Peppers for Seymour ???

My objection was that people called him "the best 3-4 DE of his generation". That implies hands down, and clearly, a guy who's been injured (and played injured) as much as he has simply can't be considered the best, "hands down". If he'd been on the field for most of his career, maybe you could say that, but that simply is not the case. He's still got a couple years left yet though, and if he stays healthy, he could put up some crazy numbers.

He has more than a couple of years left in the tank. He is only 29 and will likely play (barring injury) until he is about 35-36yrs old.

Put me in the camp of folks who thinks Seymour is the premiere 34 DE of this generation. I can't make a solid case for anyone else, and I do follow other teams closely enough to know (that's right… im a fantasy nerd... so what ).

Now... that may not be saying an awful lot because most teams (up until recently) opt to run a base 4-3... But make no mistake about it, when Seymour is right, he is as good at his job as anyone I have ever seen, and certainly a level above anyone who played the position maybe since Ray Childress.

 

[Mogamedogz]

Re: Would you trade Peppers for Seymour ???

Yeah, Taylor had an outstanding season in the 3-4 in Miami, but it was at OLB. No way could he be a DE in the 3-4. He would get eaten alive.

If they restricted Taylor Big Sey's job duties... there is a strong probability that he wouldn’t even make it out of training camp. He would get trampled over.

 

[mgcolby]

Re: Would you trade Peppers for Seymour ???

I'm no NFL scout, and I simply don't watch enough other teams regularly, but I don't think there is a clear cut best 3-4 DE in the league. I'd probably pick Sey, but I'm a little biased, and I've seen a lot more of him than anyone else. Heck, you don't have to look past the Patriots to find someone that could be in that argument. Ty Warren doesn't get the stats, but that's because NOBODY runs at him. I would put Justin Smith in that category , but he's only been doing a 3-4 since 2008. He's a natural with it and a beast. Although I'm not sure if Baltimore was running the 3-4 back then, my memories of Michael McCrary put him in the same category as Seymor. Because Sey hasn't stayed on the field, I think Aaron Smith could be in the arguement, even though he's not much of a pass rusher (I don't think pass rushing is primary job of a DE in the 3-4). A few could argue for Jason Taylor, since Miami did quite a bit of 3-4 at times, but he's not good enough against the run for me to consider him. Some will say Shaun Ellis cuz of his stats, but he isn't even in the conversation. He might get flashy numbers, but he doesn't draw the double team like Sey. I admit, I watch a lot less of other teams than I'd like, so there is (or was) probably some more obscure guys like Warren who no one runs at at, but I honestly couldn't name them.

My objection was that people called him "the best 3-4 DE of his generation". That implies hands down, and clearly, a guy who's been injured (and played injured) as much as he has simply can't be considered the best, "hands down". If he'd been on the field for most of his career, maybe you could say that, but that simply is not the case. He's still got a couple years left yet though, and if he stays healthy, he could put up some crazy numbers.

Thanks for the well thought out response.

IMO, the reason so many on here consider him to be the premier 3-4 DE is because we play the two gap system. And yet his sack numbers are as good or better than most one gap 3-4 DE's, which is significant because their entire job is to penetrate. Sey's job is to square up and defend both gaps on either side of him. Penetration is a bonus, but not expected.

Aaron Smith is in a similar situation, but even his job is different. His job is to eat up blockers to allow the blitzing backer/safety to penetrate as cleanly as possible. The Steelers do a lot of stunting with their D-line. And often times O-lines have to pick their poison, not to take anything away from him, he is an outstanding 3-4 DE and definitely merits being in the argument. But IMO, the difference in run responsibility seperates them.

Justin Smith played outstanding in his first year as 3-4 DE, but has played the entire rest of his career in a 4-3.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

Re: Would you trade Peppers for Seymour ???

taylor, smith and mccrary are simply not 3-4 DE's ....... if and when those guys played in the 3-4, they did so at OLB

care to re-try your statement??????

As I'm said in the original post, I'm not sure about McCrary, that was quite some time ago. However, I disagree with you about Justin Smith. I only watch two 49ers games this year, and I'm certain that the majority of the snaps, Smith was lining up on the Line. And this guy been doing this for ONE YEAR, I can only imagine how amazing he'd be had he started that way. I did see him line up at OLB a couple of times, but he really seemed to struggle there. I'll google it to make sure I'm right, but I'm certain he was lining up as DE for most of the snaps those games.

Taylor Absolutely lined up as both DE and LB in the 3-4, and if you read carefully, I said OTHER's may argue for Taylor, but I would not.

I also mentioned some other players that challenge the notion of Sey being the "hands down" best 3-4 DE of his generation. Care to retry your statement?

 

[NEGoldenAge]

Re: Would you trade Peppers for Seymour ???

Thanks for the well thought out response.

IMO, the reason so many on here consider him to be the premier 3-4 DE is because we play the two gap system. And yet his sack numbers are as good or better than most one gap 3-4 DE's, which is significant because their entire job is to penetrate. Sey's job is to square up and defend both gaps on either side of him. Penetration is a bonus, but not expected.

Aaron Smith is in a similar situation, but even his job is different. His job is to eat up blockers to allow the blitzing backer/safety to penetrate as cleanly as possible. And often times O-lines have to pick their poison, not to take anything away from him, he is an outstanding 3-4 DE and definitely merits being in the argument. But IMO, the difference in run responsibility seperates them.

Justin Smith played outstanding in his first year as 3-4 DE, but has played the entire rest of his career in a 4-3.

Although I love the fact that Sey can put pressure on the QB, to me, that's not nearly as important as stopping the run. The fact that he draws so many double teams and still can do both is pretty amazing though. That is why I give him the edge, but as I said, I'm biased, and really haven't seen enough of other teams to say so with certainty.

The fact that Aaron Smith has a different roll and can still put up impressive numbers is exactly why I included him in the conversation.

What do you think about Ty Warren?

 

[Synovia]

I think D. Ware is a better comparison. Both are sack artists, 4-3 DEs, physical freaks and IMO well suited to be an OLB in a 3-4.

Since when is D. Ware a 4-3 DE?

 

[Synovia]

Re: Would you trade Peppers for Seymour ???

Seymour was owned by the Chargers then-rookie left tackle Marcus McNeil in the 2006 AFC Divisional Playoff in San Diego (where LT blew up after the game).

And can we just agree to disagree on this subject? Why are some Seymour apologists questioning the intelligence or competency of those who would dare to disagree with THEIR opinion that Seymour is Canton-bound?

QB12

So, the fact that Seymour had a bad game in 2006 against a very good tackle, shortly after knee surgery, is relevant to his performance now, and going forward?

 

[Ghost of Ben Dreith]

Put me in the Seymour is good but not as great as some of the Patriot homers think he is. IMO he has not played at the level he did prior to his first big contract resign....and this takes into account his injuries.

I, like a lot of you watch all the Patriot's game and in games I see, I often see him fail to set the edge and/or miss big tackles he should have made. Oh yeah...he did better on the pass rush last year....but stats are stats and myself and my lying eyes didn't see Seymour dominating OT's as he did early in his career last year.

Would I throw him on the scrap heap....no. Would I even consider paying him the cash the Skins threw at Haynesworth....not in this lifetime, and that is what Seymour will be wanting to renegotiate to soon.

So....again, I would make this trade and use picks to draft another DE. And yes....someone who disagrees with some of the Seymour afficiandos does understand the 3-4/4-3 argument...and still would do the trade.

 

[Synovia]

Put me in the Seymour is good but not as great as some of the Patriot homers think he is. IMO he has not played at the level he did prior to his first big contract resign....and this takes into account his injuries.

I would agree...12 months ago. He was absolutely dominant this year. The last time he played like he did this year, was 2003/2004.

 

[JackBauer]

I, like a lot of you watch all the Patriot's game and in games I see, I often see him fail to set the edge and/or miss big tackles he should have made.

Run-defense statistics would tend to disagree with your view.

 

[supafly]

Run-defense statistics would tend to disagree with your view.

Great point, he is still a MAJOR part of our D, and he did have one helluva year last yr. whether or not we keep him past next yr remains to be seen, depending on many factors. But Big Sey always takes on two guys, freeing up other players--AND somehow blocks kicks, makes sacks, and often blows up many plays. We still have at least another yr to make a tough decision, and I for one, am still holding out for that small chance he could stay. You have to take into acct the whole scheme of the D, and to what his responsibilities are--before saying he's overrated. I mean, he should at least be compared to Freeny, his contract pays him 10-12 mill /per. Do you really think he's not as good as Freeny? (could be a biased comparison, as they do have different responsibilities etc.)

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Put me in the Seymour is good but not as great as some of the Patriot homers think he is. IMO he has not played at the level he did prior to his first big contract resign....and this takes into account his injuries.

I, like a lot of you watch all the Patriot's game and in games I see, I often see him fail to set the edge and/or miss big tackles he should have made. Oh yeah...he did better on the pass rush last year....but stats are stats and myself and my lying eyes didn't see Seymour dominating OT's as he did early in his career last year.

Would I throw him on the scrap heap....no. Would I even consider paying him the cash the Skins threw at Haynesworth....not in this lifetime, and that is what Seymour will be wanting to renegotiate to soon.

So....again, I would make this trade and use picks to draft another DE. And yes....someone who disagrees with some of the Seymour afficiandos does understand the 3-4/4-3 argument...and still would do the trade.

errr.....OK, mr. expert

I'll still take seymour over peppers ...... peppers is not all that, either and at least seymour fits the scheme