Would you give up the 2nd round pick for Percy Harvin?

[Brady_to_Moss]

Without a contract extension, Harvin will hold out until the last minute.
Does a #2 draft pick for six games sound good to you?

What's to say he doesn't bring his price down in a few weeks? pats would pay him a multi year deal. Solid production and only 24

 

[supafly]

Welker's replacement. I like the sound of this. Harvin is a stud. Much younger. Could rent Harvin for a year basically. Welker will be a year older then. Move on with Welker the year after. Sign Harvin (with a year worth of experience in the system) to a worthwhile contract.

It would bridge the gap between Harvin and Welker, and fill two needs at the same time! This is a savvy concept!

Yeah, I think this could work very well actually...:rocker:

It sounds good in theory, but is probably too much of a gamble for Belichick and the team to actually take.

If anything gets done with Harvin (with or without Welker) it would have to be with an agreed upon new contract first or else both parties wouldn't do it. For one thing, Harvin is supposedly holding out absent a new deal, and as far as the NEP go, Belichick couldn't afford to risk a one year rental in case he had a good year and suddenly decided he wanted 12-13 million aav moving forward. Harvin would have a whole lot of leverage on the team knowing that they had just parted with a very high draft pick (or two) in exchange for a one year rental. He'd hold a lot of cards in that scenario.

I like Sciz' idea of a 3rd this year, a 3rd next year, and a new contract at around 8.5 million per. One could argue that it would take less trade compensation though, as it's been rumored to be a 2nd and change. Of course the "and change" could be anything from a 5th thru a 7th, but it may make sense to do a 2nd+6th as opposed to a 3rd+3rd instead. Of course, one would have to like the idea of acquiring Harvin to begin with, and that's a whole other issue in itself. There are obviously pros and cons to all of these guys.

Either way, it's probably extremely unlikely to happen, but the story gains steam based on speculation as to whether he's the guy we really wanted or not in 2009.

 

[Ivan]

Playing with someone who had no problems digesting the system means nada... We've had guys from FLA who couldn't. Trading a high draft pick for a player who is demanding a substantial investment spanning 5-6 seasons is how bad teams end up getting worse, not how teams knocking on the door ultimately prevail. One of the most important characteristics for making it as a player here is mental toughness. It's a big part of getting to where you want to go. Guys willing to dig deep and push through whatever impedes team success. Don't see that in Harvin. See a self absorbed player who when the going gets tough personally lashes out and creates a distraction to the point the staff would just as soon send him home. People believe Bill is willing to take flyers on some of these guys because he believes the culture here won't allow them to upset the applecart. But this isn't the 2004 NEP and the youth and lack of veteran leadership on this team isn't up to dealing with that many locker room challenges. People want to know why Brady doesn't nap before his biggest games anymore. Well, it's because year after year more of the responsibility for what transpires here falls to him as there are not a collection of natural born enforcers roaming the halls at Gillette nowadays. On the staff or the roster. And Belichick does less of the enforcing on his teams than most assume. He has always relied on others, be that guys like RAC and Charlie or players like Rodney and Tedy and Willie and Rosie and Vrabel and Faulk and Brown, etc. That was part of the reason he kept many of them around to their bitter end. He struggled to not only replace them on the field but in the locker room.

It's pretty obvious that my first choice is paying welker, but if they decide they aren't going to do it then i really don't see many other realistic options for replacing his production, and if they get reid of him without replacing the production then they are going to have the worst WR corps in football, and that isn't going to be easy to overcome

 

[Triumph]

After thinking it over, I would spend a 2nd on Harvin.

The Pats need a deep threat WR yesterday and after 4 NFL seasons Harvin is proven. I wish he was taller, but I like his speed, hands and KO return ability. His contract would have to be tied to his conduct and attitude. Its a risk, but so is drafting a WR. Look at Chad Jackson, you could blow a candle out placed in front of one ear from the ear on the other side.

The only other option is the draft, but there might be a learning curve the 1st season even if the player comes from a spread offense similar to the NEs and theres definitely the rookie wall (for some players) should NE get into the post season.

Either way its a gamble and Harvin may go South after a couple of seasons, but at least the Pats didnt waste more years of having Brady behind Center.

 

[Calciumee]

Harvin is certainly a good player, but no way would someone give up a 2nd without an extension!

And he has only played a full season once! Would be a high risk, high reward move!

 

[bagwell368]

I'm surprised so many like this idea:

1. Harvin has had over 1/2 a dozen significant flip outs since he came to the Vikings, including a nutty he threw in the locker room last November. He's got migraines which are co-morbid with bipolar - might not be the case, but it's something to look at.

2. Harvin played in a simplistic offense in college and inthe pros. How do we know he'd be able to get through Brady's grad school any better then Ocho?

3. It's not just a 2nd round pick (which could be for a RT, WR, DL, CB, S), but the extension for Harvin which could be $11-12M per. Harvin's catching career numbers are close to Lloyd's this year, and Lloyd cost $6M. So Harvin will cost double of Lloyd or 30-40% more than Welker.

4. Harvin is a good RB and KR. Is Harvin going to be the KR, and Demps sits?

5. Harvin is 5' 11" - so forget that tall feature WR, he's a slot. Since when do slots get paid as if their last name is Fitzgerald? We have AH available to play slot if we like since our TE situation should be deeper next year.

Harvin isn't even on the Vikings media guide for next year, guess they were already getting sick of the show.

Big fat NO.

 

[zipster9]

After thinking it over, I would spend a 2nd on Harvin.

The Pats need a deep threat WR yesterday and after 4 NFL seasons Harvin is proven. I wish he was taller, but I like his speed, hands and KO return ability. His contract would have to be tied to his conduct and attitude. Its a risk, but so is drafting a WR. Look at Chad Jackson, you could blow a candle out placed in front of one ear from the ear on the other side.

The only other option is the draft, but there might be a learning curve the 1st season even if the player comes from a spread offense similar to the NEs and theres definitely the rookie wall (for some players) should NE get into the post season.

Either way its a gamble and Harvin may go South after a couple of seasons, but at least the Pats didnt waste more years of having Brady behind Center.

I believe most folks will agree that Percy wants to get paid like a top receiver, in the 10+million/yr. There will be many teams in the bidding war.
Something, Patriots won't do.

Problem is he has an attitude problem with previous coaches, probably a prima-dona, and past year went to IR.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

And he has only played a full season once! Would be a high risk, high reward move!

Same with gronk and hernandez....and we paid them. harvins injury issues are the least of my worries. my worries are filling welkers HUGE void when he's gone

 

[Banjo]

^ I know, right? At this point, I consider Gronk more injury prone than Percy Harvin.

 

[Sciz]

Sounds like my 2013 3rd and 2014 3rd might actually be more than what the Vikings end up getting. Sounds like teams are awfully scared of that contract. I don't blame them.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

give it a few weeks...his asking $$ will come down

 

[Triumph]

I'm surprised so many like this idea:

1. Harvin has had over 1/2 a dozen significant flip outs since he came to the Vikings, including a nutty he threw in the locker room last November. He's got migraines which are co-morbid with bipolar - might not be the case, but it's something to look at.

2. Harvin played in a simplistic offense in college and inthe pros. How do we know he'd be able to get through Brady's grad school any better then Ocho?

3. It's not just a 2nd round pick (which could be for a RT, WR, DL, CB, S), but the extension for Harvin which could be $11-12M per. Harvin's catching career numbers are close to Lloyd's this year, and Lloyd cost $6M. So Harvin will cost double of Lloyd or 30-40% more than Welker.

4. Harvin is a good RB and KR. Is Harvin going to be the KR, and Demps sits?

5. Harvin is 5' 11" - so forget that tall feature WR, he's a slot. Since when do slots get paid as if their last name is Fitzgerald? We have AH available to play slot if we like since our TE situation should be deeper next year.

Harvin isn't even on the Vikings media guide for next year, guess they were already getting sick of the show.

Big fat NO.

1 So how many games did he miss?

2 Definitely something to look at to be sure he wasnt playing in the Stinko passing offense - Run downfield and turn left at the cheerleader, wave when you get open on two. He played 3 years for Urban Meyer though in college. Percy Harvin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia You know, BBs buddy?

3 Harvins 2012 season basically exceeded Lloyds 2012 production while missing 4 games. Harvins catch % was 73% (his best ever) and Lloyds 57% (his best ever) Harvin will be 25 and Lloyd 32 when training camp opens.

4 Demps? Shouldnt he make it through more than 2 weeks of an NFL training camp before winning the KO return job? Every Pats off season there are these diamonds in the rough that never work out.

5 If Welker is gone, Edelman will play the slot. We saw the handwriting on the wall last seasons first few games. Harvin will play outside. With his speed, defenses will be forced to play off the LOS or get burned.

 

[Jimke]

give it a few weeks...his asking $$ will come down

Harvin wants top three wide receiver money. I can't imagine Welker
demands this much.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

1 So how many games did he miss?

Not as many as the practices he missed.

2 Definitely something to look at to be sure he wasnt playing in the Stinko passing offense - Run downfield and turn left at the cheerleader, wave when you get open on two. He played 3 years for Urban Meyer though in college. Percy Harvin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia You know, BBs buddy?

Yeah, same guy this guy played for:

Chad Watson Jackson is an American football wide receiver for the Omaha Nighthawks of the United Football League. He played college football for the University of Florida.

As did the QB phenomenon known as Tebow.

3 Harvins 2012 season basically exceeded Lloyds 2012 production while missing 4 games. Harvins catch % was 73% (his best ever) and Lloyds 57% (his best ever) Harvin will be 25 and Lloyd 32 when training camp opens.

So the question becomes is he worth 3 times what Lloyd is getting for twice as long?

4 Demps? Shouldnt he make it through more than 2 weeks of an NFL training camp before winning the KO return job? Every Pats off season there are these diamonds in the rough that never work out.

5 If Welker is gone, Edelman will play the slot. We saw the handwriting on the wall last seasons first few games. Harvin will play outside. With his speed, defenses will be forced to play off the LOS or get burned.

That handrwiting was pretty painful to read as I recall. Then of course he was gone...again.

Lets trade a #2 and change for Percy Harvin and pay him $12M+ per year for the next 5-6 years because in tandem with Edelman whose price will skyrocket if he approaches half of Welker's production in the slot they might replicate what we get with Welker, Edelman and Lloyd for $12M+ over the next 3 seasons...including if the big TE goes down again...

We're supposed to be trying to get better, not maintain the status quo while rearranging the deck chairs. This team needs to add talent and depth of certain skillsets (physicality) without flumoxing it's cap and you don't start that exercise by subtracting proven producers and replacing them with more expensive, unproven options. And particularly not when the centerpiece of your revised plan is a player with a history of acting out that predates his NFL career when the going gets rough. Lloyd had to swallow hard more than once last season as his transition into an offense he already knew didn't go as smoothly as planned with a QB of Brady's precision running the show.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

3. It's not just a 2nd round pick (which could be for a RT, WR, DL, CB, S), but the extension for Harvin which could be $11-12M per. Harvin's catching career numbers are close to Lloyd's this year, and Lloyd cost $6M. So Harvin will cost double of Lloyd or 30-40% more than Welker.

FWIW, Lloyd's contract averages $4M a year.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Harvin wants top three wide receiver money. I can't imagine Welker
demands this much.

LaCanfora says he's looking for $12+ and that would be on a 5+ year deal so $25M+ guaranteed. Plus the loss of the draft pick or picks.

Welker is likely looking for something in the $8M+ range for 3 years with $18M+ guaranteed. To take Harvin on you'd have to project he replaces both Welker and Lloyd. Otherwise you have to bring Edelman back and use him primarily in the slot and hope he could withstand a full season and produce half what Welker did, and if he did then you'd likely end up having to pay him Lloyd money to remain there by 2014. So you'd be looking at a best case scenario of $16M for WR's 1 and 2 and still no big, physical target at the position to fill the void if the big TE or even his sidekick go down in a heap again. Ballard might mitigate that some, but that remains to be seen. Fells and Hooman and Shiancoe certainly didn't and none of them was coming back from an ACL.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

give it a few weeks...his asking $$ will come down

I wouldn't bank on that. He's a pretty determined guy when it comes to personal agendas. Last time we had one of those on the roster he shot his way out of town on the eve of the regular season and he got what he wanted and then some. Harvin isn't going to cooperate on any trade that doesn't also get him what he wants. And if a team trades for him as a rental he will hold out until the checks start arriving, which would be the kiss of death for him and us given the complexity and precision of this offense.

 

[BradyManny]

Putting aside all the practical repercussions of the trade and financials, there aren't many players in the NFL more suited for this offense than Harvin. I'm sure Belichick and McD will do their due diligence.

I might be in the minority, but I would trade a 2nd for a 1 year rental if I knew it would increase my chances of winning a SB. Harvin would probably yield a 3rd or 4th round comp pick a year later.

EDIT: Plus I'm reading now the cost is probably a 3rd. Hitting a 2nd/3rd rounder is probably what, 33% in the NFL league wide? Even the Pats don't hit much more than that. Wheatley, Crable, O'Connell, Chung, Brace, Butler, Tate, McKenzie, Cunningham, Price, Dowling...it's hard hitting on those guys. The Spikes & Gronks of the world do not grow on trees.

 

[Ivan]

I wouldn't give Harvin more than 8 a year, 5/40 with 16 guaranteed. If that doesn't get it don e then no deal. That said it demonstrates why signing Welker is the imperative, they aren't going to come anywhere near to close to replacing his production without paying much more to replace him than to sign him.

 

[BradyManny]

I wouldn't give Harvin more than 8 a year, 5/40 with 16 guaranteed. If that doesn't get it don e then no deal. That said it demonstrates why signing Welker is the imperative, they aren't going to come anywhere near to close to replacing his production without paying much more to replace him than to sign him.

The Patriots are already paying Aaron Hernandez and Rob Gronkowski a combined $16 mill a year AAV to kill teams in the middle of the field.

I'm starting to buy Bedard's take on the issue - and accept that Welker is not realistically in the team's plan going forward, despite the fact he remains the 4th most talented player on the team, and the most talented slot receiver in the league. It's tough to swallow considering he very well might be the toughest player on the team, and the one who has sacrificed his body more than any other. Not to mention he's extremely likeable. He's the ideal Patriot. But with Gronk & Hernandez as the core for this offense going forward, can we afford to pay a guy $10 mill annually who doesn't pose a threat on the outside?

Again, if I'm playing with funny money and not worrying about the logistics - having Harvin, a guy who like Hernandez can line up in the slot; backfield; split wide - is extremely valuable to where McD has taken and is taking this offense. Harvin would truly be a nightmare for opposing teams in this offense. Just imagine him lining up at RB with Gronk & Hernandez in the game and lined up as TEs. What does the opposing D do? What personnel do you send out? Now what do they do when Brady audibles and all three of those guys are lined up as WRs? Have fun defending them with the LBs you've put in to stop the run.

McD would kill for this guy on his team, even if it's just a rental.