Would you give up the 2nd round pick for Percy Harvin?

[I.M. Fletcher]

I am all for a versatile player being added to the Pats, but this situation cannot be that appealing to the Pats.

in order

1. Has had a handful of outbursts with his current team that is willing to trade him off for a 2nd or possibly 3rd while still on his rookie deal
2. looking for in excess of 10mill on a long term contract
3. has played 16 games once in four years
4, has yet to go over 1000 yards in a season
5. would leave team favourite welker without a contract
6. our receiving and tight end positions would be very low on maturity

Again, I love what Harvin can do on the field, and he can change a game by himself, but cost is not measured in picks alone.

 

[Deus Irae]

I should have included a poll with this thread....

 

[DW Toys]

No.

But I would give up the 29th pick for Larry Fitzgerald (provided we don't re-sign Welker) and a minor restructure.

Also, sign David Nelson FA from Buffalo. He tore his ACL in week one of 2012, but I have a real good feeling about him if he were to land in New England (young, big, physical, enough speed, and affordable).

Elijah Cousin, I would do a trade in a minute for Fitzgerald but it would require a healthy restructure. But......... Beddard mentioned today that Mallet might be a player for player trade piece. The Cards have no QB. The Cards are not going anywhere offensively. Give the Larry guy a shot at a ring.

-Take every FA QB out there and Mallet is better(except Falcco) even though he has nothing much for game experience. Look up the choices! They rot! A QB needy team has to consider Mallet.
-Take every "first round" QB possibility in the Draft and Mallet is better.

I like Nelson but I think we have that guy in Hernandez. Wouldn't mind him though for when AH gets hurt and out for few game vacation in 2013 as he always has.

Wouldn't give more than a 3rd for Harvin because he is not dependable to stay on the field and you have antics to deal with. That being said he would be better than any 3rd round pick for sure.

Not a great fan of Lloyd. In the beginning of 2012 TB tried to force him the ball ala Moss. LLoyd gets pushed off routes by a strong DB.

So let us asses this. We have a great slot guy in Welker, A number two possession guy in Lloyd and still can't find a #1 WR!!!!!!!

We have great TE play. Here are some interesting choices. Sign TE Jared Cook at 6'5'' and 245 with 4.5 speed and can catch and see what defenses can do with a three TE set with speed and catching ability. Big or physical DBs are trouble for Pats WR. Not with this package.

But let us go back to WR.

We still need a deep threat. I have got a sleeper who is going to be cut for CAP hell reasons. We have had reasonable luck with Oakland WRs. Darrius Heyward Bey has blazing speed and "DHB has to realize he won't be in heavy demand on the open market after a disappointing season clouded by a scary concussion". In a bad couple years on a crap Team with those last few years of terrible QB play he still managed 9 TDs the last two years and 105 receptions. He has legit 4.3 speed. He is bigger at 6'2" and 218lbs than Mike Wallace. He is younger at 25. His YPC was more in 2012 than Wallace and he will be cheaper. A better option than Bowe as well.

Another steal is Ramses Barden at 6'6" and 229lbs with 37" arm length and almost 11" hands in our offense? He has 4.51 speed. With those mitts he should be a sure handed outside the numbers guy. Think red zone with Gronk! Was just starting to come into his own with a 9 game catch against Carolina and he got hurt a few games after.

No let's address the D. If you really think the Pats can ever Draft a DB or WR that is just not happening. Another possible CAP candidate is Adrian Wilson as a S with decent cover skills. Real Team leader tough guy type. Plays hurt.

Or another CAP find might be Champ Bailey as a Safety. (his CB strengths are lessening but he can still cover a TE and tackle and 9PDF) He is bigger than McCourty and brings leadership we lack. He could teach McCourty some as well.
DW Toys

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

look if they get rid of welker which i think happens..and decide to dump lloyd...they must sign a big name FA and trade for harvin or another WR. Bradys years and numbered. you need to spend NOW...not later

 

[Brady2Moss]

Elijah Cousin, I would do a trade in a minute for Fitzgerald but it would require a healthy restructure. But......... Beddard mentioned today that Mallet might be a player for player trade piece. The Cards have no QB. The Cards are not going anywhere offensively. Give the Larry guy a shot at a ring.

-Take every FA QB out there and Mallet is better(except Falcco) even though he has nothing much for game experience. Look up the choices! They rot! A QB needy team has to consider Mallet.
-Take every "first round" QB possibility in the Draft and Mallet is better.

I like Nelson but I think we have that guy in Hernandez. Wouldn't mind him though for when AH gets hurt and out for few game vacation in 2013 as he always has.

Wouldn't give more than a 3rd for Harvin because he is not dependable to stay on the field and you have antics to deal with. That being said he would be better than any 3rd round pick for sure.

Not a great fan of Lloyd. In the beginning of 2012 TB tried to force him the ball ala Moss. LLoyd gets pushed off routes by a strong DB.

So let us asses this. We have a great slot guy in Welker, A number two possession guy in Lloyd and still can't find a #1 WR!!!!!!!

We have great TE play. Here are some interesting choices. Sign TE Jared Cook at 6'5'' and 245 with 4.5 speed and can catch and see what defenses can do with a three TE set with speed and catching ability. Big or physical DBs are trouble for Pats WR. Not with this package.

But let us go back to WR.

We still need a deep threat. I have got a sleeper who is going to be cut for CAP hell reasons. We have had reasonable luck with Oakland WRs. Darrius Heyward Bey has blazing speed and "DHB has to realize he won't be in heavy demand on the open market after a disappointing season clouded by a scary concussion". In a bad couple years on a crap Team with those last few years of terrible QB play he still managed 9 TDs the last two years and 105 receptions. He has legit 4.3 speed. He is bigger at 6'2" and 218lbs than Mike Wallace. He is younger at 25. His YPC was more in 2012 than Wallace and he will be cheaper. A better option than Bowe as well.

Another steal is Ramses Barden at 6'6" and 229lbs with 37" arm length and almost 11" hands in our offense? He has 4.51 speed. With those mitts he should be a sure handed outside the numbers guy. Think red zone with Gronk! Was just starting to come into his own with a 9 game catch against Carolina and he got hurt a few games after.

No let's address the D. If you really think the Pats can ever Draft a DB or WR that is just not happening. Another possible CAP candidate is Adrian Wilson as a S with decent cover skills. Real Team leader tough guy type. Plays hurt.

Or another CAP find might be Champ Bailey as a Safety. (his CB strengths are lessening but he can still cover a TE and tackle and 9PDF) He is bigger than McCourty and brings leadership we lack. He could teach McCourty some as well.
DW Toys

Agree on DHB 100% low risk, high reward

 

[DocHoliday]

Barden is interesting but it's hard to believe he's going to come to the Pats from the Gmen and breakout at 27 years old.

On the other hand he had an injury season and was drafted at 23 so he's got 3 true seasons out of four rather than 6 that many 27 year old players have.

Also his 40 time is closer to 4.6, making him a rather poor deep threat really if he isn't perfect with his routes.

If he's a free agent pick him up and let him fight a draft pick, Kamar Aiken and the other WR scrubs for a spot on the 53.

DHB is intriguing. You just hope and hope you can be the one to change him but stone hands is stone hands and rarely does that change. I suppose you can say Carson is that bad, but its a stretch of an excuse.

 

[ausbacker]

Not sure if you saw this story or not today, but apparently the word out of CLE is that they are going to pass on Mallett. Not sure how much merit this has, but I figured I'd pass it along in case you didn't get a chance to read it.

Browns aren’t expected to try to trade for Ryan Mallett | ProFootballTalk

No I wasn't supa. Thanks for that.

 

[DocHoliday]

Harvin likely to be on the trading block

on an unrelated note: what the hell are the vikings doing?

i wouldn't want to be near AP when he hears this news

He doesn't want to be there. What else can you do?

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

Re: Harvin likely to be on the trading block

Unless it's low level draft picks (6, 7, maybe 5), I don't think BB is too interested in trading for a receiver. Given the evaluation process and how they've not panned out here in our system, I would support that decision.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Hernandez played with him at Florida and has had no problems digesting this system. I agree that Harvin isn't the poster child for great behavior but I don't think he's a real problem and i have always believed that Belichick really wanted him in that draft. And, as i said before, I would only do it if they were letting Welker walk. There is no other way they come even close to offsetting the loss of Welker's production, and simply allowing that big of a hole to go without a real fill is about the worst thing that could happen to this team this offseason.

Playing with someone who had no problems digesting the system means nada... We've had guys from FLA who couldn't. Trading a high draft pick for a player who is demanding a substantial investment spanning 5-6 seasons is how bad teams end up getting worse, not how teams knocking on the door ultimately prevail. One of the most important characteristics for making it as a player here is mental toughness. It's a big part of getting to where you want to go. Guys willing to dig deep and push through whatever impedes team success. Don't see that in Harvin. See a self absorbed player who when the going gets tough personally lashes out and creates a distraction to the point the staff would just as soon send him home. People believe Bill is willing to take flyers on some of these guys because he believes the culture here won't allow them to upset the applecart. But this isn't the 2004 NEP and the youth and lack of veteran leadership on this team isn't up to dealing with that many locker room challenges. People want to know why Brady doesn't nap before his biggest games anymore. Well, it's because year after year more of the responsibility for what transpires here falls to him as there are not a collection of natural born enforcers roaming the halls at Gillette nowadays. On the staff or the roster. And Belichick does less of the enforcing on his teams than most assume. He has always relied on others, be that guys like RAC and Charlie or players like Rodney and Tedy and Willie and Rosie and Vrabel and Faulk and Brown, etc. That was part of the reason he kept many of them around to their bitter end. He struggled to not only replace them on the field but in the locker room.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

No I wasn't supa. Thanks for that.

In an ironic twist of fate they may be looking at FA Brian Hoyer to push Weeden before bailing altogether on a first round investment at the position. Would be an ideal situation for Hoyer, who also happens to be a native son...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Not sure if you saw this story or not today, but apparently the word out of CLE is that they are going to pass on Mallett. Not sure how much merit this has, but I figured I'd pass it along in case you didn't get a chance to read it.

Browns aren’t expected to try to trade for Ryan Mallett | ProFootballTalk

For perspective, one of the locals linked Andy Reid responding to questions about Ricky Stanzi the other day and noted it was the same scenario that applies to Mallett. Reid said he'd looked at all the college tape on the player and what little pro tape existed and wasn't able to conclude much more about that players potential going forward compared to guys who have amassed some time on the field at this level or guys coming out of college this year. The problem that developmental QB's have on this team is that Bill hasn't been inclined to do with them what builds trade value unless he has no choice. They are limited to pre season cameos and Mallett's haven't been terribly impressive. He may change that this pre season, but by then it's too late for teams looking for a QB for 2013 to consider him. Even if they are desperate due to injury they likely look to any veteran option first. And then by the following season they've long forgotten what he did last pre season and are focused on guys who did something intriguing in season. Or the veteran options once again.

 

[ausbacker]

In an ironic twist of fate they may be looking at FA Brian Hoyer to push Weeden before bailing altogether on a first round investment at the position. Would be an ideal situation for Hoyer, who also happens to be a native son...

They sure know how to invest in a QB... those Browns.

 

[Triumph]

Harvin has great hands.

Hes never had a catch % under 65% since being drafted FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Percy Harvin and seems to be very consistent. Harvin had a 73% catch rate for 2012 and thats just outstanding FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | WIDE RECEIVERS 2012. Conversely, throughout his career Lloyd has struggled to reach the 66% catch rate mark. FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Brandon Lloyd 57% (his best) in 2012, so its no surprise that he drops the ball.

The scary part is that the surface has barely been scratched on Harvins potential. He really hasnt had probowl QBs throwing him the ball sans 1 season of Brett Farve.

Harvin has had at least 1 KO return for a TD in 4 consecutive seasons. So, with 4.4 speed hes definitely is going to be threat in that department. Percy Harvin Stats - Minnesota Vikings - ESPN

 

[Banjo]

YES! YES! YES! A trillion times yes.

Percy Harvin is not injury prone! He had only missed THREE games prior to going on IR last season... so get that false impression out of your head.

 

[EwanSellars]

i wonder if a 3rd this year and a 5th next year would get it done

 

[DW Toys]

Barden is interesting but it's hard to believe he's going to come to the Pats from the Gmen and breakout at 27 years old.

On the other hand he had an injury season and was drafted at 23 so he's got 3 true seasons out of four rather than 6 that many 27 year old players have.

Also his 40 time is closer to 4.6, making him a rather poor deep threat really if he isn't perfect with his routes.

If he's a free agent pick him up and let him fight a draft pick, Kamar Aiken and the other WR scrubs for a spot on the 53.

DHB is intriguing. You just hope and hope you can be the one to change him but stone hands is stone hands and rarely does that change. I suppose you can say Carson is that bad, but its a stretch of an excuse.

Cousin, That is not the problem. In fact he has a better percentile than any present WR on the Pats with a crappy passing game in Oakland.

"Darrius Heyward-Bey's improved hands are the most important improvement he has made, because without it, nothing else matters. He was embarrassing in his rookie campaign, dropping passes and unnecessarily jumping for passes at times.

Then in 2010, his second year, he started to look like a decent receiver, with a drop percentage of only 10.3 percent.

In 2011, he drastically improved that, cutting his drop percentage in half to 5.3 percent, and three of those drops were in one horrible quarter.

In fact, that 5.3 drop percentage has him in the top percentile of NFL receivers."

As his confidence improves his pass catching ability has increased. But he will be a CAP causality. A reasonably deal can be made.

"Darrius Heyward-Bey is not expected back with the Raiders in 2013 at his currently scheduled $7.721 million base salary."

"failing to fit into Greg Knapp's West Coast offense in 2012 cut his production" We ain't west coast!

"This is what Williamson had to say about DHB vs. Crabtree: “They couldn’t be any more different in terms of styles, but I do think DHB is more dangerous and worries the opponent more right now. He has improved dramatically since entering the NFL and did come to the league at a very young age. His routes and especially his hands are way better than his rookie season. And, of course, he can fly. He doesn’t operate out of the slot and probably won’t be a high volume guy in terms of catches, but he is getting better for sure.”

A young ascending player at 25. Not a retread? Not a three year Draft project? And we absolutely have no clue how to Draft a WR or a DB. Please don't throw McCourty at me. He defecated the sleeping area as a CB so they stuck him at Safety as luck would have it. Dennard might be the one and only but it is early.

You have to pay Wallace or Bowe at least $8m for your field stretcher. I think this kid might not be the failure that some laughed at Al about.

In his previous years he has averaged 14.57 yards per catch. Think Brady can help?

How about letting Lloyd walk and take his $3m on an upgrade. Decent WR but no more than Gaffney II. Anyone disagree? Use the $3m plus whatever toward one or the other of these kids below. Love that word....kids.

How about Harvin and Bey? Enough speed for ya? Harvin has a better catch rate than Lloyd. You resign Edelman as the 4th WR. If you can keep Welker we are scary. Like 2007 again if DHB can have a 2011 year. DHB, Harvin, Welker with a desert of Hernandez and Gronk. Who do you cover Ravens? Who do you cover 49ers..... etc?

No we don't waste our picks on POTENTIAL WR PLAYMAKERS and thus can get maybe one more shot at a cover OLB like a Greene(no CB or S? please just go to FA and get a play ready dude like a Goldston) and Draft a tough ass guard like Larry Warford or Barrett Jones. I like an extra pass rusher. How about Devon Taylor in the 3rd?

NO Drafting DB's or WR please Bill.

DW Toys

 

[Joker]

I'd rather take another shot in the draft...the law of averages should come into play at some point....let McD do the draft breakdown on prospects. He showed some skill at it in Denver.

 

[Rob0729]

Injury prone. Headcase. On an one year rental. Not much to not love about the guy.


If Harvin wasn't so injury prone and a headcase, I would say a whole-hearted yes. Then again, he wouldn't be on the trading block if that was the case. But too many red flags for the risk of a high draft pick.

Although I am not advocating it, I would rather give up a first and sign Victor Cruz to an offer sheet and hope that the Giants couldn't match it. Cruz in my mind is a safer bet with a first rounder than Harvin is with a second rounder.

 

[EJ Blitz]

I absolutely would give up a 2nd round pick without hesitation. To those saying they wouldn't take a risk on a guy who has poor health, well Belichick already drafted Ras IR Dowling who had similar issues, hence why a 2nd round pick is arbitrary, at least in the case of the Patriots. We need game changers.