Woody Johnson Clear Cut Tampered Re: Revis

[Deus Irae]

Ignoring his other areas of incompetence, here are the two Idzik drafts:


Calvin Pryor - has talent, but couldn't translate it to the field as a rookie
Jace Amaro - Had a solid, though unspectacular, rookie campaign. Likely a middling TE
Dexter McDougle - Preseason IR, Never played a down this year
Jalen Saunders - Cut by Jets
Shaq Evans - Preseason IR, never played a down this y
Dakota Dozier - Never played a down in his rookie season
Jeremiah George - Cut by Jets
Brandon Dixon - Cut by Jets
Quincy Enunwa - Cut by Jets, signed to practice squad, called up for last game
IK Enemkpali - Played the last 3 games of the season for the Jets
Tajh Boyd - Cut by Jets
Trevor Reilly - Started 9 games, had 8 tackles and 7 assists
Dee Milliner - Torched as a rookie, IR'd as a sophomore
S. Richardson - Excellent D lineman
Geno Smith - Stiff as a rookie, stiff as a sophomore
Brian Winters - Starter as a rookie, IR'd early in his sophomore season
Oday Aboushi - Didn't play as a rookie, played as a sophomore due to Winters' injury
William Campbell - Cut without ever playing a down for the Jets


It takes a lot to get fired as a GM in just 2 years. Drafting like the above..... well, that'll help do it.

 

[PP2]

How does Rex get a pass on the draft. Do you REALLY believe that Rex has been a passive bystander over the last 6 years in the draft. If you believe that, you clearly don't know anything about Rex Ryan.

Over his 6 year reign BOTH of his GM's have been cap guys, NOT personnel guys. Do you really think Rex would cede total control of the draft to 2 guys who were both uniquely unqualified to have full control of the draft. Of course he didn't.

This perception is a perfect example of Teflon Rex at his finest. Remember this is the same Rex Ryan who threw his last THREE OC's (Shotenhiemer, Soparano, and Morningwig) under the bus, and got rid of his best DC (Pettine) Who paid only lip service to the concept of accountability. Who self promoted every chance he got. Who took credit every chance he got. Again, do you really think he simply allowed Bradway and Idzik to pick his players for him and hope for the best? That's just nuts.

So you think the guy who had #6 tattooed on his bicep decided to go out and waste a #2 pick on another QB?

He may have suggestions and a certain amount of influence, but he is definitely not the guy calling the shots in the draft room.

 

[Deus Irae]

How does Rex get a pass on the draft. Do you REALLY believe that Rex has been a passive bystander over the last 6 years in the draft. If you believe that, you clearly don't know anything about Rex Ryan.

Over his 6 year reign BOTH of his GM's have been cap guys, NOT personnel guys. Do you really think Rex would cede total control of the draft to 2 guys who were both uniquely unqualified to have full control of the draft. Of course he didn't.

This perception is a perfect example of Teflon Rex at his finest. Remember this is the same Rex Ryan who threw his last THREE OC's (Shotenhiemer, Soparano, and Morningwig) under the bus, and got rid of his best DC (Pettine) Who paid only lip service to the concept of accountability. Who self promoted every chance he got. Who took credit every chance he got. Again, do you really think a guy with THAT kind of ego would simply allow Bradway and Idzik to pick his players for him and hope for the best? That's just nuts.

You're confusing pre-Idzik era and Idzik era. From all reports, Ryan had a lot of input with Tannenbaum, and essentially none with Idzik.

And accusing me of setting up a "Teflon Rex" is ridiculous. My posting history is more than just a little to the other side of that line.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Ignoring his other areas of incompetence, here are the two Idzik drafts:


Calvin Pryor - has talent, but couldn't translate it to the field as a rookie
Jace Amaro - Had a solid, though unspectacular, rookie campaign. Likely a middling TE
Dexter McDougle - Preseason IR, Never played a down this year
Jalen Saunders - Cut by Jets
Shaq Evans - Preseason IR, never played a down this y
Dakota Dozier - Never played a down in his rookie season
Jeremiah George - Cut by Jets
Brandon Dixon - Cut by Jets
Quincy Enunwa - Cut by Jets, signed to practice squad, called up for last game
IK Enemkpali - Played the last 3 games of the season for the Jets
Tajh Boyd - Cut by Jets
Trevor Reilly - Started 9 games, had 8 tackles and 7 assists
Dee Milliner - Torched as a rookie, IR'd as a sophomore
S. Richardson - Excellent D lineman
Geno Smith - Stiff as a rookie, stiff as a sophomore
Brian Winters - Starter as a rookie, IR'd early in his sophomore season
Oday Aboushi - Didn't play as a rookie, played as a sophomore due to Winters' injury
William Campbell - Cut without ever playing a down for the Jets


It takes a lot to get fired as a GM in just 2 years. Drafting like the above..... well, that'll help do it.

Nine of the guys on that list were picked in the 5th round or later. It's certainly the Jets' right to fire a guy for failing to draft starters in the 5th-7th rounds, but by that standard there are probably 30 GMs on the hot seat right now.

I look at that list and I see one utterly godawful pick (Saunders), one QB picked in a draft with no good QBs, one all pro talent, and a bunch of bad injury luck/late round flotsam.

 

[RobertWeathers]

1) See my above post. People keep repeating the "he made really bad draft picks" line, but it doesn't hold up under any kind of scrutiny. He's been really unlucky with how his picks keep tearing ligaments, but otherwise he's made 1-2 really bad picks and as many or more good ones.

2) Why should he spend a bunch of money for the grand aspiration of maybe going 7-9? The Jets were in cap hell. Now that they're not--on account of Idzik's actions--why should they be in any hurry to get back there? You don't sign a bunch of multi-year deals just because your cap space is burning a hole in your pocket. You sign low-risk value where you can find it--which he did with Decker and Harvin--and build through the draft.

Basically, Idzik was fired for the crime of only drafting one immediate All Pro in the whole two years he was given to work with. I guess the Jets expected him to step in and immediately have the 2010-2011 Seahawks drafts, but that type of expectation is so insane and monumentally stupid that it could only happen in New Jersey.

Also, you could argue that the Jets have drafted better than the Seahawks since Idzik left, which should really just tell you how pointless it is to judge talent evaluators based on only two years of picks immediately after the fact.

Injuries are injuries and if you go 3-13 and have $20m in cap space, as a GM you didn't do your job. You need to have contingency plans and he didn't execute. Its that simple.

Idzik was fired because he did not provide the necessary leadership required for the role. He never should have drafted Smith, done more in the secondary, improve the level of offensive talent and most importantly fired Rex after the 2013 season. He should have recognized that Rex isn't the best developer of talent. I think if they went 8-8 again he'd still be there.

I believe Rex still had a say in personnel and I think Idzik - because Woody is an idiot and didn't want to fight that political battle, enabled Rex. That's what killed him.

We can argue about the picks for hours. As you point out, a few were good. With most, the jury is still out.

 

[dales804]

I couldn't care less about his amazingly bad press conference, because caring about press conferences is exactly the kind of stuff that gets someone like Belichick overlooked. As for his draft picks, I want you to name each individual pick that 'sucks'. Because by my count, they mostly fall into the following groups:

Awesome
Sheldon Richardson

A QB pick that he was likely pressured into making in a draft with no good QBs
Geno Smith

Talented players who have been injured so far, so way too early to tell
Dee Milliner
Dexter McDougle

Rookies with a bunch of talent, but way too early to pass judgment yet
Jace Amaro
Calvin Pryor

A starter who tore his ACL earlier this season
Brian Winters

Jalen Saunders was a terrible pick. Shaq Evans might be too, we can't really know yet. Other than that, the only possible criticism that you can level at the guy is that he's failed to find immediate starters with day-four picks, which almost never happens anyway. By that standard, most GMs deserve to be fired.

As a Pats fan, I'm happy that they fired Idzik. He interited a godawful team that had hit on exactly one draft pick in the past five years and was in terrible cap position, and he put them in position to be competitive within 2 years. I couldn't be happier that Woody Johnson has established that he won't stand for such patience and competence.

I gave you my take on his draft picks. All have sucked except Richardson and Amaro so far. And I said "personnel decisions," not just drafting. Why the hell did he trade for Percy Harvin and his awful contract mid season when they're out of the race after telling the media during free agency when they're not doing anything that he's not signing people because they want the cap space for next year as they're not going to compete in 2014? If they're going to cut Harvin this offseason, why did they trade for him? He did absolutely nothing to help that defensive backfield, other than pay Dimitri Patterson $1M in guaranteed money (1yr, $3M total) and the guy didn't play a down for them. Cromartie signed in AZ for $1M more.

And I threw in the press conference for fun. It just made his already poor job look worse.

 

[patfanken]

You're confusing pre-Idzik era and Idzik era. From all reports, Ryan had a lot of input with Tannenbaum, and essentially none with Idzik.

And accusing me of setting up a "Teflon Rex" is ridiculous. My posting history is more than just a little to the other side of that line.

2 points.

1. You are good at research, can you give me some back up to your contention that Rex didn't have much input on the 2 Idzik drafts.

2. I didn't accuse you of anything. You just happened to be the first person on this page who put out the opinion that Rex didn't have much to do with the draft. You might find this hard to believe, but my post had NOTHING to do with you. Strange at it might seem, sometimes it's not all about you.

 

[patfanken]

So you think the guy who had #6 tattooed on his bicep decided to go out and waste a #2 pick on another QB?

He may have suggestions and a certain amount of influence, but he is definitely not the guy calling the shots in the draft room.

Bad analogy PP2. When Rex drafted Geno, Sanchez had already regressed to the point were the organization was clearly going to draft a QB somewhere in the first 3 rounds. At the Time Geno was considered decent value pick in the 2nd round and certainly worth a shot.

On the other hand there is NOTHING in Idzk's past that even remotely suggests he had the skills to have the final say on an NFL draft. So if not Rex, who was?

 

[OhExaulted1]

Great post. Agree 100%.

In your research, did you come across anything that shows a timeline. For example, when the infraction occurred, when it was escalated to the league and when Goody issued the punishment?

I would think that the league wants to delay any commentary/judgement until after the Super Bowl but before free agency?

On the other hand, by delaying commentary, the league and Goody run the risk of having the perception of being indecisive and incompetent...oh wait..

The comments made by Cunningham were made in Feb, 2010. The Chiefs filed a grievence in Dec same year. On Feb. 18, 2011 Godell made the ruling a loss of a 7th and swapping of 5th's. Detroiot appealed and regained the 7th but the swap was upheld on May 22. The process did take considerable time,but it is not the lone example.

Goodell has not once, but twice forced a team to swap draft picks from the mere implication of tampering.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3310056

If he deviates from the previously enacted protocols, he most certainly must be, as the head of the NFLPA DeMaurice Smith aptly put, be "making it up as he goes along". How can you make rulings on this type of transgression twice but then arbitrarily ignore you're previous rulings when it happens a third time? Especially in such a public forum where the evidence of intent is so obvious.

All I can figure is the tape of Woody's comments made it to the league office and maybe no one alerted him so he never actually saw it. Why not use that excuse? It kept his job just a couple months ago.

Maybe if TMZ airs it he'll know it exists.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Injuries are injuries and if you go 3-13 and have $20m in cap space, as a GM you didn't do your job. You need to have contingency plans and he didn't execute. Its that simple.

There are zero teams in the NFL that have an effective contingency plan for what they'll do if they lose their top 3 corners in the first 3-4 weeks of the season. It's that simple

Idzik was fired because he did not provide the necessary leadership required for the role. He never should have drafted Smith, done more in the secondary, improve the level of offensive talent and most importantly fired Rex after the 2013 season. He should have recognized that Rex isn't the best developer of talent. I think if they went 8-8 again he'd still be there.

I agree that he shouldn't have drafted Smith, but I disagree that it would have mattered. Geno was the best QB in that draft, so the only way they could've done better is to not draft a QB at all. I'm willing to bet that he was working under an edict that that simply wasn't an option. Woody Johnson is obsessed with grabbing headlines, and he wasn't going to grab any (at least not the right kind) if he ran Mark Sanchez back out there for another year.

I believe Rex still had a say in personnel and I think Idzik - because Woody is an idiot and didn't want to fight that political battle, enabled Rex. That's what killed him.

We can argue about the picks for hours. As you point out, a few were good. With most, the jury is still out.

I believe Rex probably had some say as well. That's probably one of many reasons why all of the Jets' top choices for GM weren't interested.

Look, if you think that a GM should be fired because a) he inherited a godawful roster and deeply flawed head coach, b) he used a second rounder on the best QB in a QB-poor draft, c) a few of his top picks have suffered season-ending injuries, and d) he has not yet unearthed standout players in the 5th round of the draft, then that's your prerogative. But what Idzik was doing happened to be the only way they'll ever become competitive. He did what needed to be done to get the team to a point where success could plausibly be on the horizon.

A competent owner would understand the ramifications of firing him right now, after all the dirty work is done and right when things are finally starting to look up. It's now a foregone conclusion what the next GM will do. He'll spend every cent of that FA money on big-ticket FAs and veterans that will only come if they're given too-long contracts. Draft picks will probably be traded away in order to move up and take splashy, headline-grabbing players. Jameis Winston might as well start scouting out real estate in New Jersey. All because the GM knows that the team has to become much better overnight for him to keep his job. No plan in building for the long term that you won't be around for or receive any credit for building.

And in 3 years, they'll still be a sub-.500 team with a bunch of cap-clogging veteran contracts and no light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I gave you my take on his draft picks. All have sucked except Richardson and Amaro so far. And I said "personnel decisions," not just drafting. Why the hell did he trade for Percy Harvin and his awful contract mid season when they're out of the race after telling the media during free agency when they're not doing anything that he's not signing people because they want the cap space for next year as they're not going to compete in 2014? If they're going to cut Harvin this offseason, why did they trade for him? He did absolutely nothing to help that defensive backfield, other than pay Dimitri Patterson $1M in guaranteed money (1yr, $3M total) and the guy didn't play a down for them. Cromartie signed in AZ for $1M more.

And I threw in the press conference for fun. It just made his already poor job look worse.

Harvin's contract is just fine for the Jets. It's awful for Seattle because of all the money (and draft picks) that they already spent, but none of that transferred over to the Jets. He allowed them to evaluate their QB position with a full complement of WRs, so that they could better decide whether they needed to move on. And with $0 in guaranteed money left on his contract, he's a literal no-risk signing, for the total cost of one whole sixth round pick. That's exactly the kind of move that a team with a ton of cap space and no desire to compromise its future cap should make. I think you're missing the point of them saying that they want cap space for next year, because the way that you compromise your cap space is by signing guys with a lot of guaranteed money. A guy who you can cut with no cap penalty does nothing against your future cap.

As far as their defensive backfield, you're kinda conveniently ignoring that, in the last two years, they've spent two firsts and a third on their secondary. Unfortunately for them, two of those three suffered season-ending injuries. Again, there isn't a team in the NFL that has a viable contingency in place for what they'll do if they lose their top 3 corners. The Jets don't have one... and neither does anyone else.

 

[OhExaulted1]

There are zero teams in the NFL that have an effective contingency plan for what they'll do if they lose their top 3 corners in the first 3-4 weeks of the season. It's that simple



I agree that he shouldn't have drafted Smith, but I disagree that it would have mattered. Geno was the best QB in that draft, so the only way they could've done better is to not draft a QB at all. I'm willing to bet that he was working under an edict that that simply wasn't an option. Woody Johnson is obsessed with grabbing headlines, and he wasn't going to grab any (at least not the right kind) if he ran Mark Sanchez back out there for another year.



I believe Rex probably had some say as well. That's probably one of many reasons why all of the Jets' top choices for GM weren't interested.

Look, if you think that a GM should be fired because a) he inherited a godawful roster and deeply flawed head coach, b) he used a second rounder on the best QB in a QB-poor draft, c) a few of his top picks have suffered season-ending injuries, and d) he has not yet unearthed standout players in the 5th round of the draft, then that's your prerogative. But what Idzik was doing happened to be the only way they'll ever become competitive. He did what needed to be done to get the team to a point where success could plausibly be on the horizon.

A competent owner would understand the ramifications of firing him right now, after all the dirty work is done and right when things are finally starting to look up. It's now a foregone conclusion what the next GM will do. He'll spend every cent of that FA money on big-ticket FAs and veterans that will only come if they're given too-long contracts. Draft picks will probably be traded away in order to move up and take splashy, headline-grabbing players. Jameis Winston might as well start scouting out real estate in New Jersey. All because the GM knows that the team has to become much better overnight for him to keep his job. No plan in building for the long term that you won't be around for or receive any credit for building.

And in 3 years, they'll still be a sub-.500 team with a bunch of cap-clogging veteran contracts and no light at the end of the tunnel.

Im sorry, but your guilty of tampering with this thread. I'm going to file a grievence with the mods to force you swap this post with post #439 (a loss of 31 posts) so we can get this thread back on track.

 

[flasox27]

Absolutely correct. Lets get back on topic here which is the issue of tampering and what should or will done about it. The fact that the Jets suck at drafting while worthy of discussion should have its own thread.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I can. He's ignored in game sideline tripping of opponents. He's ignored public profanities too profuse to count by the blubbering Warthog....some done in front of children. He's ignored public displays of disgusting gluttony and unbridled endorsement of dangerous eating habits performed in public. He's ignored seedy, deviant, reprehensible toe fetishism..once again for public consumption, easily within reach of children with a few clicks of a mouse.He's ignored blatant, obvious tampering by members of the Jet hierarchy. He's ignored the drunken, spastic, slanderous mutterings of that disgusting drunk, Mike Westhof....the list is almost endless. Goodell obviously does not give a crap about ANY perception when it comes to HIS former employer.

I'm beginning to think you're right

Especially since Woody did the same thing with DeSean Jackson and I think Goodell did nothing about it

http://nypost.com/2014/03/23/woody-says-jets-want-desean/

 

[Deus Irae]

2 points.

1. You are good at research, can you give me some back up to your contention that Rex didn't have much input on the 2 Idzik drafts.

2. I didn't accuse you of anything. You just happened to be the first person on this page who put out the opinion that Rex didn't have much to do with the draft. You might find this hard to believe, but my post had NOTHING to do with you. Strange at it might seem, sometimes it's not all about you.

You quoted my post, so saying that it had nothing to do with me and giving me grief about my response, is weak sauce on your part.

As for the research, you can look that up. But here's Cimini nothing the difference back early in 2014:

But Rex Ryan did have a voice in the Tannenbaum draft room -- a loud voice. That has changed. But to say he has no input would be wrong. For example: I don't think John Idzik would've drafted Sheldon Richardson last year without consulting with Ryan to see if Richardson, whom many pegged as a 4-3 defensive tackle, could fit in Ryan's 3-4 front. That sort of stuff goes on with Idzik and Ryan, but I don't think Ryan has as much personnel power as he enjoyed under Tannenbaum.

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/38368/twitter-mailbag-rexs-power-in-draft-room

Here's the Daily news about Johnson's press conference:

The owner said the next GM would probably have a greater scouting background than Idzik, and he also tacitly criticized Idzik for not building the team to suit Ryan’s scheme.

And here's PFT about Johnson's press conference:

Johnson said that he’s not sure if there was a disconnect between Ryan and Idzik, but intimated that things didn’t work well when he said that the relationship between the men in those jobs has to be “mutual” and that Ryan didn’t get players that fit his scheme.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ween-idzik-and-ryan-while-discussing-firings/

When all you can do is say "Yeah, he can play in the 3-4", you've got essentially no input.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Good discussion BradyFTW! I'll respond in-line. I think we weigh the culpability of Idzik a little differently but agree Ryan is a marginal coach and Johnson is an idiot owner.

There are zero teams in the NFL that have an effective contingency plan for what they'll do if they lose their top 3 corners in the first 3-4 weeks of the season. It's that simple

Revis/Browner/Arrington...Dennard/Butler/Ryan.

Thats an example of good scouting and synergy between the FO and coach to find players that can fit into a system and be productive. Normally, a GM signs players off UFA or trades for players that meet the team's needs.

I agree that he shouldn't have drafted Smith, but I disagree that it would have mattered. Geno was the best QB in that draft, so the only way they could've done better is to not draft a QB at all.

Exactly. If you think a Qb will not fit into your system, not the right makeup for your team or does not meet the value scale of the selection, your trade out of it, amass more picks and acquire depth/trade for a veteran QB.

I believe Rex probably had some say as well. That's probably one of many reasons why all of the Jets' top choices for GM weren't interested.

Personally, I don't think Idzik and Ryan were on the same page. Ultimately, the blame is on Woody for not recognizing this in the first place and not empowering Idzik to bring in a coach that matched his philosophy.

Look, if you think that a GM should be fired because a) he inherited a godawful roster and deeply flawed head coach,

Agreed on Ryan but he did go to AFCCG. With talent, he has won. Developing talent is a different story.

b) he used a second rounder on the best QB in a QB-poor draft, c) a few of his top picks have suffered season-ending injuries, and d) he has not yet unearthed standout players in the 5th round of the draft, then that's your prerogative.

Thats life as a GM. If he thinks players after the 4th round stink, he should move the picks to the next year or trade them for players he thinks fit the system.

But what Idzik was doing happened to be the only way they'll ever become competitive. He did what needed to be done to get the team to a point where success could plausibly be on the horizon.

OK but clearly his blow-up plan was not in alignment with the owner's expectations. I blame Idzik for not understanding that.

A competent owner would understand the ramifications of firing him right now, after all the dirty work is done and right when things are finally starting to look up. It's now a foregone conclusion what the next GM will do. He'll spend every cent of that FA money on big-ticket FAs and veterans that will only come if they're given too-long contracts. Draft picks will probably be traded away in order to move up and take splashy, headline-grabbing players. Jameis Winston might as well start scouting out real estate in New Jersey. All because the GM knows that the team has to become much better overnight for him to keep his job. No plan in building for the long term that you won't be around for or receive any credit for building.

And in 3 years, they'll still be a sub-.500 team with a bunch of cap-clogging veteran contracts and no light at the end of the tunnel.

I hope all if this happens...

 

[OhExaulted1]

Idzik was a genius.

 

[OhExaulted1]

You quoted my post, so saying that it had nothing to do with me and giving me grief about my response, is weak sauce on your part.

As for the research, you can look that up. But here's Cimini nothing the difference back early in 2014:



http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/38368/twitter-mailbag-rexs-power-in-draft-room

Here's the Daily news about Johnson's press conference:



And here's PFT about Johnson's press conference:



http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ween-idzik-and-ryan-while-discussing-firings/

When all you can do is say "Yeah, he can play in the 3-4", you've got essentially no input.

It's obvious how smart and cagey an owner Woody Johnson is.

 

[OhExaulted1]

Where the F is JetsfanOU812 to defend his beloved screwups?

 

[OhExaulted1]

Oh, crap. I thought this was a Jets owner tampering thread and now I realize it's a referendum on Jets Front Office People who've already been fired. Silly me.