Why the optimism? Come season time can we stop the run???

[Sicilian]

And the Hot-lanta game showed us.....

That the starters gave up 4 ypc to a running back who averaged almost 5 ypc last year (Michael Turner).

Above average with room for improvement.

 

[UofApatsfan]

Re: Why the optimism? Come season time can we stop the run ???

One reason why they'll stop the run better is because they'll be fresher. The offense last year was terrible at methodical, ball control drives that give the defense time on the bench, and that contributed a lot to the 2nd half collapses on defense. This year with two tight ends who will help in run blocking and extending drives, the defense won't be worn out by the 4th quarter.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Why the optimism? Come season time can we stop the run ???

You can have your own opinions. You can't have your own facts.

1st Half
======
Johnson's runs (1,0,2,5,31,1,10,0,2,8)
Johnson 10 for 60
Titans 18 for 74
Score 45-0

2nd Half
======
Johnson's runs (0,48,8,3,3,1,5)
Johnson 7 for 68
Titans 18 for 119
Score 14-0

So a quick check of your "facts"...

"Chris Johnson gained 128 yards on 17 carries" - True

"That happened against the first string defense" - Misleading, 76 of his yards (60%) came after the score was 35-0. By that time, subs were liberally being used.

"Tennessee wasn't running all that often after the half" - False, they ran just as much after the half and gained 62% of their rushing yards in the 2nd half.

If your "facts" are that far off, you might want to reevaluate your "opinions".

Just that one 48 yarder when the game was long over changes the story.
However, Kontra likes to pick and choose. While this game apparently is central to his run D argument it was counted as irrelevant in the discussion of points allowed by the defense, because the Titans didnt show up for the game and obviously werent trying.

 

[Rob0729]

Although the front three might not be as good against the run as it was with Warren and Seymour, the back seven may be much better. I think Chung, Spikes, and McCourty could be huge upgrades in the run defense department.

 

[Sicilian]

Although the front three might not be as good against the run as it was with Warren and Seymour, the back seven may be much better. I think Chung, Spikes, and McCourty could be huge upgrades in the run defense department.

Not to mention Meriweather still has potential to improve in this area, Mayo should be healthier, and I have to believe we have a good chance to improve over AD's run play last year. Pretty much every position outside the DL has a chance to improve, or at least be status quo.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Re: Why the optimism? Come season time can we stop the run ???

Just that one 48 yarder when the game was long over changes the story.
However, Kontra likes to pick and choose. While this game apparently is central to his run D argument it was counted as irrelevant in the discussion of points allowed by the defense, because the Titans didnt show up for the game and obviously werent trying.

Maybe if someone would convince Kontra that points matter in winning and losing, we would have some progress.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: Why the optimism? Come season time can we stop the run ???

You can have your own opinions. You can't have your own facts.

1st Half
======
Johnson's runs (1,0,2,5,31,1,10,0,2,8)
Johnson 10 for 60
Titans 18 for 74
Score 45-0

2nd Half
======
Johnson's runs (0,48,8,3,3,1,5)
Johnson 7 for 68
Titans 18 for 119
Score 14-0

So a quick check of your "facts"...

"Chris Johnson gained 128 yards on 17 carries" - True

"That happened against the first string defense" - Misleading, 76 of his yards (60%) came after the score was 35-0. By that time, subs were liberally being used.

"Tennessee wasn't running all that often after the half" - False, they ran just as much after the half and gained 62% of their rushing yards in the 2nd half.

If your "facts" are that far off, you might want to reevaluate your "opinions".

If what you're saying is true, Johnson was breaking off 6.0 YPC against the first string defense despite not having any viable throwing threat. I'm not sure how you could possibly make any point that the run defense was top notch. What's your opinion of the rest of the games on the schedule?

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: Why the optimism? Come season time can we stop the run ???

Maybe if someone would convince Kontra that points matter in winning and losing, we would have some progress.

Points matter in wins and losses. You're right. They're pretty irrelevant when you're looking at the run defense. Are you trying to say that the run defense was top notch last year?

 

[Kontradiction]

Eh, with all of that said, I'm just going to let you two have the last word. If you want to believe that the run defense was anything more than middle of the pack, then have at it. Ignorance is bliss, I guess. Not sure how you could be ignorant to that fact considering that every single piece of statistical analysis on the run defense puts them at the middle of the pack. But have at it. I think we can all agree that we're hoping for better this season.

 

[Metaphors]

Re: Why the optimism? Come season time can we stop the run ???

If what you're saying is true, Johnson was breaking off 6.0 YPC against the first string defense despite not having any viable throwing threat. I'm not sure how you could possibly make any point that the run defense was top notch. What's your opinion of the rest of the games on the schedule?

Done playing with you on this subject. It just isn't any fun. Just wanted to set the facts straight. Also notice that while Johnson's average/mean carry in the 1st half was 6 yards (which is bad), his median carry was only 2 yards (which means he was contained for the most part).

My opinion on the rest of the games is pretty simple. The Pats didn't lose a game all year that mattered (throw out the Texans game) where the run defense was the major factor in the loss. I know your opinion on the subject but I take it with a grain of salt based on your selective observations and your facts falling a little short of truth. More like truthiness.

 

[lillestroom]

I cant see what the Rams game is going to highlight in terms of this thread as they arent exactly Baltimore (but Jackson is an old war-horse) who may give BB some pointers in terms of how teams view the Pats and where are weaknesses are seen to be.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Re: Why the optimism? Come season time can we stop the run ???

Because I'm passionate about my own team?

Because I dont want to see other teams simply eat up six or seven minutes each time they get the ball and running 250+ yards on us week-win, week-out?

Whats the point having one of the top three O's in the game if they are getting significantly less time on the field than the opposition?

You are right, the offense needs to be on the field to make a difference, but when I read this the first thing I thought of was the Colts game in Miami last year. From the game recap:

Key stat
The Colts' win is impressive given how much time Manning spent on the sideline. Miami dominated the time of possession battle, chewing 45:07 off the clock. In fact, the Colts only ran 13 plays in the second half. Indianapolis had the ball for 14:53, the lowest time of possession for a winning team since 1977.


Given that last line, I guess I can't reasonably expect Brady to repeat that feat very often.

 

[lillestroom]

Re: Why the optimism? Come season time can we stop the run ???

You are right, the offense needs to be on the field to make a difference, but when I read this the first thing I thought of was the Colts game in Miami last year. From the game recap:

Key stat
The Colts' win is impressive given how much time Manning spent on the sideline. Miami dominated the time of possession battle, chewing 45:07 off the clock. In fact, the Colts only ran 13 plays in the second half. Indianapolis had the ball for 14:53, the lowest time of possession for a winning team since 1977.


Given that last line, I guess I can't reasonably expect Brady to repeat that feat very often.

St. Louis had the ball for 43 minutes yesterday. That will kill any team. They went pass orientated, but also dominated our D-line.

That scares the **** out of me.

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

No pass rush no playoffs plain and simple... the d line is weaker with out ty warren...

 

[Kontradiction]

No pass rush no playoffs plain and simple... the d line is weaker with out ty warren...

Ya think? Gerard Warren was pulled last night in favor of Ron Brace... who actually looked a lot better than his predecessor in both areas.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Ya think? Gerard Warren was pulled last night in favor of Ron Brace... who actually looked a lot better than his predecessor in both areas.

what do you expect from bringing these ex-raiders aboard?

the loss of seymour and ty warren is huge. it will take another 2-3 years to draft and develop their replacements.

 

[Kontradiction]

what do you expect from bringing these ex-raiders aboard?

the loss of seymour and ty warren is huge. it will take another 2-3 years to draft and develop their replacements.

There's nothing wrong with bringing ex-Raiders on board as long as they get the job done. Randy Moss could do that. Gerard Warren doesn't look to be able to.

 

[lillestroom]

There's nothing wrong with bringing ex-Raiders on board as long as they get the job done. Randy Moss could do that. Gerard Warren doesn't look to be able to.

Nor Turdell Sands, who was.... turd.

 

[lillestroom]

Perhaps teams will try and go after us in the air with Bodden out.

Hope so. The D line needs to take imodium to stop the run.

 

[Sicilian]

Perhaps teams will try and go after us in the air with Bodden out.

Hope so. The D line needs to take imodium to stop the run.

Preseason YPC against 2010:

Saints: 3.4
Falcons: 3.9
Rams: 3.3

It's preseason, so it doesn't mean it will be great, but I'm seeing NO sign that our run defense is not solid. The only starter that did anything against OUR starters was Stephen Jackson, who had 4.4 ypc on 5 whole carries.