Why the optimism? Come season time can we stop the run???

[Ring 6]

Re: Why the optimism? Come season time can we stop the run ???

Jesus, here we go again, PART I since it is too large to post

I'm going to start off by pointing out that turning the majority of the argument towards what I am doing and what I'm not doing doesn't really strengthen any position that you have. Jesus. For someone that "didn't want to get in the middle of this", you sure couldn't help yourself when it came to me, could you?

Huh? What? Turning the argument? The 'argument' is:
You said you didnt have much hope for Warren becuz he failed in a 34.
When I asked you to back that up you said you couldnt and then changed your argument to everyone said he was a JAG when he was signed.
Since when is either an inaccurate statement or a synopsis of what posters said when a player was signed valid support of an opinion???

The pretty common consensus on Warren is that he's been disappointing for a first round draft pick and has been moved around to four different teams while not really being a difference maker anywhere he's gone. That's the base definition of Just Another Guy. [/qote]
-What you think the consensus is has nothing to do with an analysis of the player.
-He has started 129 NFL games.
-JAG is not aq guy who starts 129 games. It is a guy who is a fringe player to make a roster or not. STARTERS are not JAGS

Because the sudden change of opinions around here amuses me.

So you counter that my overexaggerating the opinion you say is wrong?
My opinion hasnt changed.

Actually, it wasn't completely uninformed. It was MISinformed. Is getting shipped out because your defensive coordinator diagnoses you as a typical one gap guy that didn't think you were capable in the two gap any better than washing out of the two gap?

Uninformed, misinformed, guessing at the reason for a trade, same story, diffeent day.

Bringing up that thread wasn't my basis for "bashing" Warren. It wasn't even my basis to prove that he was a bad football player. Anybody that's followed Warren (remember now that he played at Florida) could tell you that he really wasn't anything special in his career. Moreover, bringing up that thread was my attempt to show everyone how quickly opinions change around here.

I dont see it that way. You said your expectations were low because he failed in the 2gap. You brought this up in response to being told he didnt.
It ws substituted as your reason for having low expectations.
THIS:

Regardless, though, let me just remind everyone that most people here considered Warren to be an inside guy and a JAG when we first signed him. Now that he's going to be a start, he's the automatic answer who will work wonders for our defense and make us forget about Seymour and Warren


Was yor response immediately after realizing he didnt play in a 2gap.
Regardless of whether he played in a 2gap, your opinion stands because.......... how else should that be taken?

A few months ago, Warren was labeled a "JAG" by most on here.

Patsfans.com posters calling him a jag is irreleant to his ability. I never called him a jag, you are having this discussion with me, This is totally irrelevant.

Now that Warren's out and we're looking at him, he's suddenly a "very capable two gap DE", in spite of the fact that, as you say, this is the first time in his career playing the two gap. That's what I considered humorous. The fact that you're now bent out of shape about it let's me know I hit the mark.

I'm not bent out of shape about anything. I have not changed my opinion of the player, except for what I obeserved.
You took a stand, gave a reason, the reason was eliminated so you found a completely lame reason to put in its place. Thats the debate. If anyone is bent out of shape its you, because you are dancing around that reality.

Uh, he's a professional football player. Nobody has ever taken that away from him. But if the barometer for being "impressive" is starting games over a long period, should we start being impressed with Ted Ginn?

If Ted Ginn starts in this league for 9 years, that will be impressive.

After all, he's now on his third year of starting.

No he is not.

Joseph Addai has now started for four years. Is he now impressive? Should I bring up more examples off the top of my head?

Maybe, until you get to the guy who has started 9 straight years.

I know I don't have a direct impact on the team. But if I'm not allowed to weigh in on what I feel would be in the best interests for the team then what is the point of coming here? Should I just agree with everyone?

I am fine with you offering your opinion. In fact, I lke reading your opinions. I just find it odd that you are so intent on not admitting they are wrong that when the exact crieria you used is shown to be wrong, instead of reconsidering, you go find a lame reason to substitute.
If I say Mark Sanchez is terrible and my reasoning is that he lacks the arm strength to make the throws he must, then someone tells me he had an arm injury, and I watch him healthy and he can make all the throwsit would be lame for me to say, "Regardless, here is a post where everyone said he sucked"

Actually, that was MLR. You know? The guy I was having the one discussion with that you "really didn't want to jump into"?

I WASNT jumping in until your answer was Yeah, but just replace that reason with an old post where people said he was a jag, that should do it.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Why the optimism? Come season time can we stop the run ???

PART II

As usual, you're grasping on to one part for dear life. I'm not going to address why I brought up the thread because I already did that, and would have thought it would be obvious.

Grasping one part? It is the WHOLE debate.

However, you're now saying that I haven't looked at and discussed his body of work from his entire career in this thread? I've already said I was making my observations based on his entire body of work in the pros. The fact that I was mistaken about the type of defense that Denver ran in 2007 and the reason why Warren was given his walking papers (because the coaches didn't feel comfortable with him in the two gap) really doesn't change any of that. By the way, did you ever admit to being wrong about that sack that Light gave up on that one website that is now charging people? Just wondering.

The one that you were blaming on the RIGHT G? No, never went back to it, because I didnt find it important. It was an off the cuff remrk about where the guy you blamed the RG for lined up.

So basically I'm criticizing myself? Because I'm okay with Warren at DE as long as he can get the job done. My question to you is how we can possibly know that right now.

Then why say people are calling him more than they actually are?

It's called sarcasm. You might want to look it up sometime. I can't help it that I think it's funny when the majority of the board pans the guy as a JAG when we first sign him and that some are now "excited" about seeing him in the starting unit.

Then criticize thm for that. Why must you overstate their opinion to make it look stupid when you think what they actually said is wrong?

Again, why would I want to make myself look stupid? I'm pro-whatever can help this team. If it's Warren then I'll be the first one to cheer his career renaissance with this team. But, apparently, to the "how dare you say anything bad about this team" crowd, constructive criticism based on what you've seen isn't allowed on this forum.

There you go again. When did I say anything resembling that anything bad aobut the team is wrong? I am, and have been saying that your opinion loses credibility with me when you cite the reason, and when that reason is wrong throw a totally BS one in it s place. That looks like a perdetermined answer that you are searching for evidence to argue about.

Nope, it would be a tactic of someone who finds humor in reminding people of how they felt not too long ago. But since you keep bringing it up, let me bring you to your own quote in that thread...

Warren may be a good fit as an inside player in sub packages.
Warren and Wright inside with Ty Warren also, with TBC and TBD outside, and its starting to come together, especially if either Crable or Cunningham can fill the other outside rusher spot.

In subpackages. Meaning you don't expect him to see the field with the base defense based on what you've seen.

Where does it say I dont expect him to be on the field in the base?
I posted that I thought he would do well in that situation. That doesnt preclude him from anything else.
You are REALLY reaching now.

Fast forward to this thread and you're now making long-winded arguments for why Warren should be considered a solid starter in the base D based off of one preseason game in which the sample size was very small.

What argument am I making?
I asked for information about your claim.
It turned out you were wrong.
I called substituting 'posters said once' as the new reason lame.
I type what I saw on the field.
Please highlight, bold, italic print and mail o me if you wish where I have ARGUED in this thread that for why Warren should be considered a solid starter in the base D based off of one preseason game in which the sample size was very small.

See again, you make up my side of the discussion and then argue with what you just invented. You must have a headache by now.

Is the fact that his coach considered him incapable of playing in a two gap and then shipped him to a division rival really any better than my incorrect claim? It's like saying, "no, he didn't lose his leg back then. Just his arm".

I do not see that as a fact. I see it as an article suggesting a trade theory.

I've said numerous times that I hope he fills the DE need. Very much so. That would be great news for the defense. I have my doubts though. If there is any doubt as to whether or not he can be a competent starter against the run while also being able to get the push against the pass that he was used to, I would hope that BB is on the phone.

Feel free to have your opinion. Once again my objection is you have an opinion give a reason, remove the reason and dont reconsider your opinion. That isnt having a dicussion or debate its making a statement and feeling obigated to defend it whether it holds water or not.
I am not 100% sold on Warren. I think its a great topic for discussion but when you say A must be because B exists, when the discussion eliminates B and you feel compelled to change it to replace B with C and change nohing (esp when C is lame) it turns into this nightmare.

How is it lame to point out that he's been a JAG with four different teams in his career? How is it lame to point out that the majority of posters responding to his signing thread thought that exact same thing a few months back? Are you saying that these are not true?

It is lame to say the proof of your opinion is the comments of posters on this board the day he was signed. Lamer to replace a seemingly valid reason with that when the first evaporates. Yes, I would say the reaction to newly signed players by posters on this board is generally uninformed. We can include available FAs to increase the volume and it becomes obvious.

Really? I was pretty impressed with Seymour when he was here. Sorry you didn't feel the same.

Way to swing and miss at the point. Are you telling me he stood out and impressed you with his 2gap run techniques? I know you arent spending your life studying film so it really would be impossible. It is a job that goes unnoticed, 2 gap run technique is not an impressive thing.

Even if I had the time slots in which they occurred, you'd probably just deny it.

No I woulldnt.

Just like denying that Logan Mankins whiffed on a block that was blamed on Matt Light when you have video evidence right in front you.

Wait. Now I was wrong on this when you argued even insulted me that it was Connollys man? I never denied anything here, I said he was lined up on Light, you said Light took the LB I said I would look again, I havent yet.
Boy you love to make things up.

That's why I recommend that YOU watch the game again and focus on Warren and, to a lesser extent, Damione Lewis the entire time. You'll see some good plays followed by some not-so-good plays. /quote]
I did focus on Warren and already told you what I saw. I didnt focus on Lewis which is why I havent commented on him.

And you can disagree. But a DE in our system DOES, indeed, need to deal with two blockers on passing downs. This is where I saw him struggle when undergoing the transition from a one gap to a two gap player.

No, no, no. You said he was blown back by 2 blocers on running plays.
Of course every pass rusher from time to time deals with 2 guys if you rush 3 or 4 and they keep in 5 or 6.
Your comment was:

. On other plays, two blockers are able to drive him back off the line of scrimmage.

Pass blockers dont drive DL back off the los.

I dont know why you need to turn every discssion into this.

You made a statement that I asked for clarifiction of.
You checked it out and changed your post.
Why was it necessary to move on to pararaphs of yeah, but I will now give you this reason instead, and while I am at it pretend that everyone is trying to induct he guy in the Hal of Fame. I dont even see where anyone is overly praising the gu to begin with.
Your battle seems to be with saving face over havin been wrong. There was no need to.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Why the optimism? Come season time can we stop the run ???

You do realize that, between you two, you just quoted Kontra 44 times? There's no way that that isn't a record.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: Why the optimism? Come season time can we stop the run ???

You do realize that, between you two, you just quoted Kontra 44 times? There's no way that that isn't a record.

Yeah, I know. I'm not even going to bother to read all of the crap that Andy just posted. It's really getting quite pathetic when you consider that the guy is a moderator and he's following me around the forum nitpicking everything that I say. The definition is "butthurt", and he's been like this for the past three weeks. Remember earlier in the thread when he said he didn't want to get involved in it? Yeah, you had to know that wasn't going to last.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: Why the optimism? Come season time can we stop the run ???

Jesus, here we go again, PART I since it is too large to post

LOL. Here we go again? Weren't you the one that said you weren't going to get involved and then couldn't help yourself because you have some sort of hard-on for me? You do realize that you've literally responded to something I've said and nitpicked it in every single solitary thread that I've posted in for the last week? The funny thing is that someone actually specifically warned me about that through PM when getting into it with you a few weeks back.

Like I said, I'm not reading all of that crap. You can't seem to comprehend that I'm rooting for the guy but I have reservations about him not only based on what I THOUGHT he played in when he was at Denver, but based on the results of the system he has been in his entire life. Apparently, and hilariously, many of the regular posters on the forum shared those concerns a few months back including you.

Anyway, I'm in the process of finding the Mozilla application that allows me to ignore you (since I can't put you on regular ignore being that you're a mod). When you're ready to get over whatever it is that you have when it comes to me, let me know and I'll take you off ignore.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Why the optimism? Come season time can we stop the run ???

Yeah, I know. I'm not even going to bother to read all of the crap that Andy just posted. It's really getting quite pathetic when you consider that the guy is a moderator and he's following me around the forum nitpicking everything that I say. The definition is "butthurt", and he's been like this for the past three weeks. Remember earlier in the thread when he said he didn't want to get involved in it? Yeah, you had to know that wasn't going to last.

Never mind, i will pm

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Why the optimism? Come season time can we stop the run ???

LOL. Here we go again? Weren't you the one that said you weren't going to get involved and then couldn't help yourself because you have some sort of hard-on for me? You do realize that you've literally responded to something I've said and nitpicked it in every single solitary thread that I've posted in for the last week? The funny thing is that someone actually specifically warned me about that through PM when getting into it with you a few weeks back.

Like I said, I'm not reading all of that crap. You can't seem to comprehend that I'm rooting for the guy but I have reservations about him not only based on what I THOUGHT he played in when he was at Denver, but based on the results of the system he has been in his entire life. Apparently, and hilariously, many of the regular posters on the forum shared those concerns a few months back including you.

Anyway, I'm in the process of finding the Mozilla application that allows me to ignore you (since I can't put you on regular ignore being that you're a mod). When you're ready to get over whatever it is that you have when it comes to me, let me know and I'll take you off ignore.

You are the one who got caught in a lie, and createdall of this becuase you dont have the stones to admit you were wrong.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: Why the optimism? Come season time can we stop the run ???

You are the one who got caught in a lie, and createdall of this becuase you dont have the stones to admit you were wrong.

I admitted I was wrong about it a couple of times. More than a couple of times actually. I then went on to cite several concerns that I have with Warren outside of that. Not that it matters anyway. You weren't going to be willing to pay attention to what I wrote anyway. Like I said in response to your vicious PM that you just sent me, I asked you a couple of weeks ago to identify whatever personal issue it was you had with me. When you wouldn't, I advised that you put me on ignore because you obviously couldn't handle any criticism I had of the team. You refused to do that as well.

Now I'm going to be the better man here. I could post your PM for all to see (God knows it gave me a good laugh), but I won't do that. I'll just make this my last post toward you as FFvB has finished downloading. Like I said in the PM, whenever you're ready to act like an adult and get down to brass tacks, then let me know. Until then, I'm not going to let the two of us ruin this forum experience for us both on top of everyone who has to sift through our crap.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Why the optimism? Come season time can we stop the run ???

I admitted I was wrong about it a couple of times. More than a couple of times actually. I then went on to cite several concerns that I have with Warren outside of that. Not that it matters anyway. You weren't going to be willing to pay attention to what I wrote anyway. Like I said in response to your vicious PM that you just sent me, I asked you a couple of weeks ago to identify whatever personal issue it was you had with me. When you wouldn't, I advised that you put me on ignore because you obviously couldn't handle any criticism I had of the team. You refused to do that as well.

Now I'm going to be the better man here. I could post your PM for all to see (God knows it gave me a good laugh), but I won't do that. I'll just make this my last post toward you as FFvB has finished downloading. Like I said in the PM, whenever you're ready to act like an adult and get down to brass tacks, then let me know. Until then, I'm not going to let the two of us ruin this forum experience for us both on top of everyone who has to sift through our crap.

I dont care if you post my PM, it seems important to you to discuss it publicly.
Yeah, you are being the better man by resorting to insults. Nice one.
I have nothing more to say, I can no ,longer have a dicussion with a brick wall.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: Why the optimism? Come season time can we stop the run ???

Moving on...

You made the point that giving up 30 points 3x last year supports your contention that there are obvious problems against the run. The Jets gave up 30 points 3x last year. They didn't have obvious problems against the run or the pass. The fact is that giving up 30 points 3x a year BY ITSELF says nothing. If you can't get this, stop trying to use logic.

Why would I stop using logic when it makes sense? Okay, other teams gave up 30 points. Good for them. I still don't see what that has to do with addressing some clear deficiencies that this team had on defense last season. It just isn't relevant. Like I said, start a thread about comparing this defense to those defenses in 2009, and I'll be glad to take a look at that with you.

Nope. Team stat rankings are for losers. The Pats were a division-winner-one-and-done team last year. I'm betting that with the obvious improvements to the defense, they will be even better this year.

Well if you don't think it's unreasonable to rank them as a fifth ranked defense, then where would you rank them? Personally, I think the second and third levels of our defense should be improved. I'm looking forward to watching them. It's (obviously) the first level of the defense that I'm worried about... the trenches. If they can get it done up front, I don't see any reason myself why this defense shouldn't be leaps and bounds better than last year.

I think the Pats pass defense was pretty bad last year. Some bright spots for sure, but generally enough to give you a bad feeling in your stomach in the 4th quarter. Allowing 100 yds on 4 ypc or less to the Fins and the Donks is a fine effort. What were you expecting to see? The Pats kept the ground game relatively under control, got the lead, forced the other team to pass extensively and couldn't stop the opposing QB with the game on the line. Your contentions about the run defense based on these games is out of touch with reality.

It's not just those two games by themselves. It was the entire season. This team had a very middle of the pack, pedestrian run defense last season. The team allowed 100+ yard games against the following opponents last season: Week 2 @ NYJ (117 yards), Week 4 vs. BAL (116 yards), Week 5 @ DEN (103 yards), Week 6 vs. TITS (193 yards), Week 9 vs. MIA (133), Week 11 vs. NYJ (104 yards), Week 12 @ NO (113 yards), Week 14 vs. CAR (126 yards), Week 15 @ BUF (105 yards), Week 17 @ HOU (144 yards). The team allowed a 100 yard rushing performance in 10 out of 16 weeks. The team's rank in the rushing defense department would also indicate the team's pedestrian run defense (ranked 13th). So no, it isn't just those two games.

Seriously? That is your ace in the hole? Pat White is only considered "Wildcat" because he is such a horrific QB that running is his only viable option.

I'm aware of this. Where was I arguing otherwise?

Go back and check out the game and see how many times they ran Pat White and what resulted. Then look back at your comment:

"Teams with sensible game plans (i.e. - The Dolphins with the Wildcat and the Broncos with the Wild Horse) were able to use their running game to eventually open up the passing game big time with Henne and Orton posting career days against our defense."

Now it is "Wildcat or not" and "some relative success". They ran for less than 3.5 ypc with no TDs. I suppose that is relative success as compared to falling down and fumbling. Again, what are you expecting?

The amount of success they were running the ball with earlier in the game forced the defense to be more honest instead of simply pinning their ears back and coming after the quarterback. Surely you have to think that this had something to do with the passing performances by Henne and Orton? if not, like I've said a few times, it kind of obliterates your argument about the Pats having a stout defense last season.

Never said they were a top 5 defense last year. In fact, have said that I don't believe they were, but wouldn't toss them out of the conversation against the run. I contend that the run defense was good enough to win every week but the pass defense was not. Since this is a thread on the run defense, I am more positive than if this were a thread on the pass defense.

I couldn't disagree more. While the passing defense wasn't ideal last season, I thought the run defense was much more of a liability.

Tell me how. They use the formation on the first drive, had some success, missed a field goal, fell behind by 10 points and barely went back to the formation the rest of the game. I think the burden is on you, not me missing something obvious.

You are aware that running with successful results opens up passing lanes, right?

Last year.

Last year's win-loss total was lower. Do the math real quick.

Like we do just about every year. Even last year, the #2 Ravens were a better team than the #1.

Unless you remember that the Bengals swept the Ravens.

Same as every year.

Two of those three teams give us major issues. One finished the year with the best defense in the league. The other one added a major option in the passing game to go along with their running game. If you don't think these are going to be tough contests, then I don't know what to tell you.

Played them last year too.

Doesn't change the fact that it's going to be a tough game, just like the next one...

With a missing or hobbled Favre

Favre will be there. I'm not buying his crap. If that's the case, then we're looking at a guy that enjoyed his finest season as a pro last year with possibly the best running back in the game behind him and some pretty decent weapons in the passing game to go with a good defense. It'll be a tough one.

That is a good thing

Browns are, certainly. Steelers should be tough with Polamalu back and Big Ben getting into his groove.

Just like we do every year, except this year at home, which is a good thing

Doesn't mean much. Last two times we played Indy at home, we lost. It's still going to be a tough game unless a blizzard rolls into town and Manning turns into a *****.

With the Jets, Packers and Fins at home.

I don't see that schedule as amazingly difficult. The SD trip is likely to be a pain but the rest is seriously workable. Getting the West divisions makes for easier opponents but more difficult traveling. Other than that, the schedule doesn't seem too bad.

I have to think that with the Vikings and Packers alone in the NFC North, the NFC schedule should be tougher this year than it was last year. That's taking what we know and expect at this point. The AFC schedule should also be tougher this year with the team taking on the AFC North instead of the South with the Chargers, who we didn't play last year and have to play in San Diego, and the Colts. Like I said before, I predicted 12-4, but that still doesn't mean that it isn't a tough schedule.

 

[Metaphors]

Re: Why the optimism? Come season time can we stop the run ???

Tired of quoting you. Since you don't even pay attention to your posts, I won't either. If you are willing to use the opposing rushing totals in a 59-0 win as evidence of anything (and you did in your list of ten 100 yard opponents), you are willing to say anything. Have fun with that.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: Why the optimism? Come season time can we stop the run ???

Tired of quoting you. Since you don't even pay attention to your posts, I won't either. If you are willing to use the opposing rushing totals in a 59-0 win as evidence of anything (and you did in your list of ten 100 yard opponents), you are willing to say anything. Have fun with that.

The point of contention was the run defense. A 59-0 win isn't relevant when discussing that. What posts haven't I paid attention to? I've responded to every single one of your points.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Re: Why the optimism? Come season time can we stop the run ???

I for one never expected to get two AllPros in their Prime, signing them for not much more than minimum. Yet there is a distinct difference between a 9 year starter and a JAG.

Competent? Yes. Starring? No. Career winding down? Yes.

You can win with 53 competent players, with a sprinkling of stars. That has always been Belichick's position as he spent a decade defeating teams composed of stars and scrubs.

If the CAP were no problem then you could face the possibility of a team composed of nothing but stars, who would beat you, but you can't assemble such in this era.

The 2010 edition of the Pats is much stronger than the 2009 edition. They have more good CBs than I ever recall on a Belichick Pats team. The Safety situation is clarified,and solved. The new ILB corps appears completed. The OLBs are at least competent.

The 2009 edition won ten games and the AFCE, and lost in the Playoffs to a team they beat in the regular season. They looked poor in that playoff game, too.

But if you recall it was one of those days when everything goes wrong, and they were down 21-0 in the first few minutes. During the heights of the Superbowl success every team edition, turned in an occasional stinker too. Unfortunately it was a bad time to do it.

Meanwhile the Jets have dismantled their run game. That made their just Ok Defense into a statistical #1 fluke. The Pats schedule has them play most every tough opponent save the Chargers at friendly Gillette, unlike last season. For the first time in 5 years, the Colts come to Foxboro. The Vikes may not have Favre.

 

[lillestroom]

Re: Why the optimism? Come season time can we stop the run ???

Anyway.... as this thread has deviated a tad....

Losing Warren: Does this mean that we are unlikely to see 4-3 played during the season?

Do you think we'll see the likes of Brace or Pryor or Wilfork moving around the line?

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

Re: Why the optimism? Come season time can we stop the run ???

Do you think we'll see the likes of Brace or Pryor or Wilfork moving around the line?

They did last year, so why not this year?

To answer the op, yes. I personally think they will be better against the run than last year.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Re: Why the optimism? Come season time can we stop the run ???

Why so serious?



Since when did that QB put on a few pounds and rotate over to DE? The defense's ability against the run is absolutely a concern right now, and I can't believe that you're not the least bit worried about it all because we have the best QB in the division. Being that two of the top rushing offenses from the last couple of years are in the division, it's best to figure out who to plug in to stuff that run right now. Wright didn't look all that great against the run last year and Damione Lewis was getting run at left and right in Thursday night's game. It's possible that he just had a bad game, but I saw him get driven off the ball time and time again by second stringers. Now they're plugging Brace in with the first stringers to see if he would be an improvement over Lewis. If not, I would hope that the team explores trade options and doesn't just stand pat. God knows Wilfork can only play one position at a time and he's best used at NT as opposed to DE.

A classic example of not understanding cause and effect.

"Running games" mean nothing in a track meet with the opponent down 4 TD's. This a QB driven league where you have to keep scoring points. That was the big failure last year not the defense per se. Look around the league and it's astounding how many wins are come from behind.

The problem with the Ravens game was the Pats were down 24-0 basically from turnovers. Give Ray Lewis kudos eventhough it really was a by product losing Welker.

Also, yard TD is depressing. However, one play or drive is not a game.

 

[spacecrime]

Re: Why the optimism? Come season time can we stop the run ???

Sorry and all that, but I'm not buying into what I saw against NOS.

"I don't believe what I just saw!"

Jack Buck Gibson Call, Baseball, Los Angeles Dodgers, World Series, Kirk Gibson, Jack Buck, Sound Bite

 

[patsfan-1982]

Re: Why the optimism? Come season time can we stop the run ???

they were 13th in run defense last year. i can't see them being worst then that


the pats did not loose the playoff game cause they could not stop the run they lost cause Brady, turned the ball over 4 times that lead to 20 points by the ravens

 

[SanAngeloState]

Re: Why the optimism? Come season time can we stop the run ???

Our front 7 lost Jarvis Green, a banged up Ty Warren, and a worthless Adalius Thomas.

Gained G Warren, Lewis, healthier Mayo, Spikes who looks to make an impact right away, with hopeful contributions from Cunningham and Brace/Pryor with one year under their belt.

So on paper I feel we've definitely upgraded the run D from last year (taking into account that Warren was not his 100%), whether it's enough remains to be seen but Thursday was encouraging.

Yes, quite right! The worthless AD, less than worthless, addition by subtraction.

Warren, well, he wasn't doing that much last year, time to get some new blood some experience. Deaderick could supercede him this year. Or Kade Watson, you never know. Great potential. The other Warren is of course an improvement right NOW.

As for Jarvis Green, he was utterly worthless last year. At least Wright got some pressure pretty consistently....

So I think we're still better, MUCH better, on the DL than last year. Sorry, but that's how I see it. And we're worlds better in the LB corps. I mean the aforementioned AD was a useless cancer and now he's gone. The itinerant Guyton, who just kind of walks around out there in run defense, was useless. So he's been upgraded. Anyone is an upgrade on AD of course as well.

Also one more tidbit about AD. He is currently a street FA. So we had a street FA playing OLB for us last year! Can't get worse than that. A street FA who was making millions, but nonetheless someone whose true worth is that of a street FA!

 

[Sicilian]

Re: Why the optimism? Come season time can we stop the run ???

Yes, quite right! The worthless AD, less than worthless, addition by subtraction.

Warren, well, he wasn't doing that much last year, time to get some new blood some experience. Deaderick could supercede him this year. Or Kade Watson, you never know. Great potential. The other Warren is of course an improvement right NOW.

As for Jarvis Green, he was utterly worthless last year. At least Wright got some pressure pretty consistently....

So I think we're still better, MUCH better, on the DL than last year. Sorry, but that's how I see it. And we're worlds better in the LB corps. I mean the aforementioned AD was a useless cancer and now he's gone. The itinerant Guyton, who just kind of walks around out there in run defense, was useless. So he's been upgraded. Anyone is an upgrade on AD of course as well.

Also one more tidbit about AD. He is currently a street FA. So we had a street FA playing OLB for us last year! Can't get worse than that. A street FA who was making millions, but nonetheless someone whose true worth is that of a street FA!

I still think Ty Warren last year (even dinged up) is better against the run than anyone we're likely to put at LE this year. The damage can be minimal if G. Warren steps up, or a young player surprises, but I think the best we can do is match what Ty gave us last year. It's a blow for sure.

But you're right about everything else. The LBs and secondary are improved, so if the line play is similar, we should expect better results.