Why do people want to replace BJGE???

[Ring 6]

I'm talking about upgrading his play.

I wrote originally that of course he can be upgraded. There are a lot better RBs in the league right now. I was just pointing out that the people being mentioned earlier in this thread, Marshawn Lynch, Mendenhall, Greene, are not upgrades. I've watched a lot of Mendenhall, and he dances so much behind the line, and he gets stuffed so often, that the Steelers have found themselves in 2nd and 13 situations too often. He would be a bad fit for that reason. As I wrote in that first post, for sure he's a bigger thret than BJGE, but isn't vision important for a RB. he is not in BJGE's league there.

The point is, if you're going to expend the type of resources to upgrade that the Patriots have spent in the past, you better make damn sure it's an upgrade. I see a guy like Leshore as a reach for this reason.

You could make that argument about anything.

As far as some of your other comments, I can't fathom what you see that puts BJGE high in the 'vision' category. His strength is that he runs to the hole. He rarely cuts back, and hardly relies on vision. I get that this board has come to dispise actual vision in a RB because it requires hesitation, which is called dancing and therefore bad, but to have vision as a RB and use it, you must hesitate.

I think a fair stiulation would be to call BJGE average for a starting RB.
You could argue there are more than 16 better, but could also argue he has room for improvement.

I think that it would be ignorant to say you can't upgrade a guy who is the average of the starters at his position.
We have many players above the average of their position that people are calling for improvement of.

I still don't get the thinking that this franchise spent a lot of resources on the RB position. You went back 30 years, of course you can list some draft choices, epsoecially in the 70s and 80s when RBs dominated the draft. As a franchise there may not be another that has devoted FEWER resources to the RB than ours.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

Go back and read the drive chart from game 2. First 2 series mixing in the run we moved the ball up and down the field. The rest of the game he had 5 carries and our offense sputtered badly. BJGE's biggest asset is having TB as his QB for sure. But he does'nt do his damage in garbage time. He does his damage getting tough yards early in the football game. Those carries in turn make it easier for guys to get open and TB to make plays in the passing game. He stays out of negetive plays which can really put pressure on the offense.

Game 2 was when Brady threw 4 TDs and put up 45. Can we name one game where BJ was a big help that wasn't high scoring? He might have produced early but they were afraid of Brady who was on abosolute fire, his YPA was around 11 or so, I like that BJ goes north south and I love him if only for taking over for Maroney but I would drop him with quickness to be honest.

 

[upstater1]

You could make that argument about anything.

As far as some of your other comments, I can't fathom what you see that puts BJGE high in the 'vision' category. His strength is that he runs to the hole. He rarely cuts back, and hardly relies on vision. I get that this board has come to dispise actual vision in a RB because it requires hesitation, which is called dancing and therefore bad, but to have vision as a RB and use it, you must hesitate.

I think a fair stiulation would be to call BJGE average for a starting RB.
You could argue there are more than 16 better, but could also argue he has room for improvement.

I think that it would be ignorant to say you can't upgrade a guy who is the average of the starters at his position.
We have many players above the average of their position that people are calling for improvement of.

I still don't get the thinking that this franchise spent a lot of resources on the RB position. You went back 30 years, of course you can list some draft choices, epsoecially in the 70s and 80s when RBs dominated the draft. As a franchise there may not be another that has devoted FEWER resources to the RB than ours.

We're definitely watching a different RB.

I tend to think the guy is incredibly patient. he doesn't just hit the hole hard. I've sat in the end zones and watched the Patriots run stretch plays all the time, and it's amazing to see the way BJGE patiently waits and anticipates the hole opening up long before it does. He is really fantastic when it comes to this. That's what I appreciate about him mostly.

When I'm talking about resources, we're discussing here whether to take Ingram or Leshoure. If I have what I consider a much better than average back in BJGE, then why would I use my resources to grab a guy who doesn't look like the next big stud? We need DEs, we need OLBS, we need OLs, it's crazy IMO to want RBs when we have BenJarvus. Obviously, we need more RBs, but not at the expense of top draft choices.

 

[upstater1]

I still don't get the thinking that this franchise spent a lot of resources on the RB position. You went back 30 years, of course you can list some draft choices, epsoecially in the 70s and 80s when RBs dominated the draft. As a franchise there may not be another that has devoted FEWER resources to the RB than ours.

I wasn't comparing them to other franchises. That wasn't my intention. I was only looking at how all those picks over the period resulted in top backs only a couple times.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

I'm talking about upgrading his play.

I wrote originally that of course he can be upgraded. There are a lot better RBs in the league right now. I was just pointing out that the people being mentioned earlier in this thread, Marshawn Lynch, Mendenhall, Greene, are not upgrades. I've watched a lot of Mendenhall, and he dances so much behind the line, and he gets stuffed so often, that the Steelers have found themselves in 2nd and 13 situations too often. He would be a bad fit for that reason. As I wrote in that first post, for sure he's a bigger thret than BJGE, but isn't vision important for a RB. he is not in BJGE's league there.

The point is, if you're going to expend the type of resources to upgrade that the Patriots have spent in the past, you better make damn sure it's an upgrade. I see a guy like Leshore as a reach for this reason.

IMO Ben is a really good game manager and the o line is weak, Mendy would be an upgrade here with Brady and our line. He had some good plays when the Steelers where in a defensive struggle and not half the offense we have aroud him.

 

[mcsully]

Why do people want to replace BJGE???

I'd like to see the pats have a rb that could take the pressure off brady when the defenses are keying on him.. A rb who dictates the game.. I like BJGE and think he's a very good back but it be nice to add a player of the calibur of D'angelo Williams..

 

[Ring 6]

We're definitely watching a different RB.

I tend to think the guy is incredibly patient. he doesn't just hit the hole hard. I've sat in the end zones and watched the Patriots run stretch plays all the time, and it's amazing to see the way BJGE patiently waits and anticipates the hole opening up long before it does. He is really fantastic when it comes to this. That's what I appreciate about him mostly.

When I'm talking about resources, we're discussing here whether to take Ingram or Leshoure. If I have what I consider a much better than average back in BJGE, then why would I use my resources to grab a guy who doesn't look like the next big stud? We need DEs, we need OLBS, we need OLs, it's crazy IMO to want RBs when we have BenJarvus. Obviously, we need more RBs, but not at the expense of top draft choices.

You probably rate BJGE higher than anyone not related to him, and I disagree with the reasoning you use for it.

I would have no problem drafting a RB with any of our picks, as long as its the best player on the board.
I can live with BJGE being the #1 out of a 2 back rotation, and would feel even better with his as the #2 of a 2 back rotation.
There is something to be said for getting the yards that are there, but a back who can find the extra yards is where you really start deveoping a running game. This season our running game was no more than a distractiom from the passing game. I'd like it to be more.

 

[Ring 6]

I wasn't comparing them to other franchises. That wasn't my intention. I was only looking at how all those picks over the period resulted in top backs only a couple times.

I fail to see the point in that approach to the discussion.

If I listed all of the DEs we have ever drafted, and called that a lot of resources would that be an argument that we shouldnt draft a DE? or WR? G? S?

 

[RayClay]

What are you saying, he didn't beat him out? I mean, Maroney hardly even played this entire preseason. What is the argument again? What does preseason have to do with it?

It should be obvious to any Patriots fan that BJGE beat out Maroney.

Yes, he beat him out.

BJ got most of the carries in the preseason and averaged 2.5 ypc. Did he beat out Maroney?

 

[upstater1]

I fail to see the point in that approach to the discussion.

If I listed all of the DEs we have ever drafted, and called that a lot of resources would that be an argument that we shouldnt draft a DE? or WR? G? S?

If you have good DEs already then yes it's a waste unless you don't have other needs.

This draft is stocked with DEs and Offensive linemen.

 

[upstater1]

BJ got most of the carries in the preseason and averaged 2.5 ypc. Did he beat out Maroney?

Preseason, I don't put much credence. I put credence in Belichick choosing BJGE over Maroney. I thought BB was saving Maroney for the regular season at the time. Obviously not.

 

[patsinthesnow]

This season our running game was no more than a distractiom from the passing game. I'd like it to be more.

Exposed!

Our running game was a distraction? I'm sure the Colts would love our "distraction" of the #9th ranked rushing offense and #2 in rushing TDs.

Look at the teams behind us on that list. Minnesota, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Tennessee, etc.

A rookie will totally make our "distraction" become more.

 

[Ring 6]

Exposed!

Our running game was a distraction? I'm sure the Colts would love our "distraction" of the #9th ranked rushing offense and #2 in rushing TDs.

Look at the teams behind us on that list. Minnesota, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Tennessee, etc.

A rookie will totally make our "distraction" become more.

Did you watch the games? A huge amount of those yards were gained when we were sitting on a lead. Sometimes, including when you have large leads in many games, you have to look beyond statistics.

 

[RayClay]

Preseason, I don't put much credence. I put credence in Belichick choosing BJGE over Maroney. I thought BB was saving Maroney for the regular season at the time. Obviously not.

Well, preseason is when NFL players compete for jobs. So you admit, BJGE didn't beat out anyone based on statistics, right? After all, it's not fair to ignore the defense played, situation etc. and totally base arguments on statistics, then say statistics in preseason don't matter towards winning a job.

I too thought they were saving Maroney, or he was injured. after all, he pounded in two TDs and ran pretty well, in a limited time.

You'd have to say, in hindsight, he's a dopehead, or just a dope, BB was looking for the opportunity to ditch him, liked BJs running style and was willing to go with Taylor and BJ in the interim.

Much different than beating someone out.

 

[RayClay]

Sometimes...you have to look beyond statistics.

Perish the thought!

 

[upstater1]

After all, it's not fair to ignore the defense played, situation etc. and totally base arguments on statistics, then say statistics in preseason don't matter towards winning a job.

You'd have to say, in hindsight, he's a dopehead, or just a dope, BB was looking for the opportunity to ditch him, liked BJs running style and was willing to go with Taylor and BJ in the interim.

Much different than beating someone out.

I think it is fair. Regular season performance/production counts, preseason doesn't.

The coaches make the decisions. What I saw from BJGE this year was better than anything Maroney ever gave this team including 2007.

I really have a hard time fathoming how anyone could say anything other than BJGE beat him out.

 

[DW Toys]

I think it is fair. Regular season performance/production counts, preseason doesn't.

The coaches make the decisions. What I saw from BJGE this year was better than anything Maroney ever gave this team including 2007.

I really have a hard time fathoming how anyone could say anything other than BJGE beat him out.

Maroney had more God given talent. But he lacked field vision which was important as anything and perhaps....just perhaps desire. He didn't do all the little things to validate his first round status. He was a first rounder and I am sure a UDFA was not considered competition in his mind. He also wound up with a few fumbles late in his time here and he did have durability problems which I am sure led to this trade as well.
DW Toys

 

[RayClay]

I think it is fair. Regular season performance/production counts, preseason doesn't.

The coaches make the decisions. What I saw from BJGE this year was better than anything Maroney ever gave this team including 2007.

I really have a hard time fathoming how anyone could say anything other than BJGE beat him out.

When it comes to beating out another player in direct competition, preseason performance doesn't count.

OK.

 

[RayClay]

Maroney had more God given talent. But he lacked field vision which was important as anything and perhaps....just perhaps desire. He didn't do all the little things to validate his first round status. He was a first rounder and I am sure a UDFA was not considered competition in his mind. He also wound up with a few fumbles late in his time here and he did have durability problems which I am sure led to this trade as well.
DW Toys

let's be serious. It was more than the little things that cause BB to give BJGE and Taylor the moajority of reps in preseason.

Maroney was immature, stupid, or on dope and BB realized he needed to see if he could survive and dump him for something before he had no value and he didn't want to waste more time on him.

Despite a mediocre preseason performance, BJGE was always a good soldier, worked hard, ran forward and didn't fumble, plus we still had Fred Taylor.

By the criterion established for beating someone out, my grandmother would have beat out Maroney in 2010, had she been the only other RB besides Taylor.

The team wanted to get rid of him period.

 

[upstater1]

When it comes to beating out another player in direct competition, preseason performance doesn't count.

OK.

Yep, I stand by that. A lot more goes into it than that.

For instance, BJGE had a 2.5 ypc during the preseason. Whatever that meant to Belichick, he dismissed it. Rightly so, because BJGE went on to have a 4.5 ypc during the season. Belichick certainly didn't hand him the job based on his 2.5 ypc in the preseason. He handed him the job because he's a better runner.