Where the Brady Quinn haters at?

[Michigan Dave]

I'll contend that going by average stars they aren't #1. However, they still have several 5 star recruits looking at them and that rating could rise.

Even then, they don't need the clear-cut #1 recruting class every year to be a threat for the title. If that was the case, Pete Carroll and USC should be embarassed that they aren't going for their 5th straight title and looking to break the all-time record for consecutive wins.

By 2009, their roster will be loaded.

Oh, I'm not saying that they aren't going to have talent then. But keep in mind, the teams they are competing with- USC, Michigan, OSU...we already have talent upon talent. These top 5 classes are nothing new to us. ND has a ways to go before they are on our level.

 

[Michigan Dave]

You got that right I wonder sometimes why does a kid go to a school thats loaded like that and end up transferring because of a lack of playing time I know of a few players from Arkansas that are at USC I will be interested in what kind of playing time they will get.

You go to play for the best to compete against the best. Part of being a high level athlete is having the confidence that you are better than that other 5 star guy.

 

[Brady to Brown]

Completely unrelated to his holdout, I still believe that he will not be a successful QB in the NFL. I also think that it is comical that based on a good preseason performance against guys on the fringe to make the DETROIT LIONS that you are declaring him a success and asking others to eat crow.

We should know by the end of 2008, perhaps 2009 what is up with Quinn.

The Browns spend Millions and have many pro's working on finding the best talent every year. What have you put into your "opinion"

 

[Michigan Dave]

The Browns spend Millions and have many pro's working on finding the best talent every year. What have you put into your "opinion"

I recruited the kid, was offered a coaching (GA) position at the school he came from, and spend some time working for the league. I also played football at a decent level, and spent time working with the best QB to ever play the game (the current Pats QB.)

But it's just my opinion. I've been wrong before. I was wrong on Casey Paus over Matt Leinart (though I liked them both.)

 

[Brady to Brown]

I recruited the kid, was offered a coaching (GA) position at the school he came from, and spend some time working for the league. I also played football at a decent level, and spent time working with the best QB to ever play the game (the current Pats QB.)

But it's just my opinion. I've been wrong before. I was wrong on Casey Paus over Matt Leinart (though I liked them both.)

You left the business? You didn't like it?

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

Oh, I'm not saying that they aren't going to have talent then. But keep in mind, the teams they are competing with- USC, Michigan, OSU...we already have talent upon talent. These top 5 classes are nothing new to us. ND has a ways to go before they are on our level.

Notre Dame has landed top classes for two consecutive years and is on the verge of landing the biggest yet. Unless the teams you mentioned are going to have 8th year seniors, they'll have just as many top classes playing as the Irish will.

I'm not trying to imply that in 2009 the Irish will be an elite team and will stay that way from then on, just that this team on paper looks like it will be equipped to make a run at it. After that, who knows? Again, I'm not saying that they'll be officially "back for good" then.

 

[Michigan Dave]

You left the business? You didn't like it?

I never entered the business. I wasn't able to play anymore and was a student coach for QBs at UM. After I graduated, I was offered a GA gig at ND and MSU. I debated, but turned it down. For a couple of reasons. **** pay and hours; I was getting married the following year and my wife had another year at UM; and I didn't really want to recruit against UM. I'm too big a fan. I applied for and was offered an Asst. Director of Player Development role with the Lions, but felt that the Millen regime was unstable (this was in 2002. Ha!) and I hate that team. I thought long and hard. The money wasn't that good, and I realized that I really just love the game too much. I didn't want to not be able to go to all 12 Michigan games, and didn't want to have to give up my allegiance to the Pats. Instead, I work a couple of games a year in the visitors room at Ford Field. I catch punts on the field for the punters in pregame, watch from the sideline, and hang out in the room pre and postgame. That gives me my football fix. This year I'm out though, since I'll have some classes on Sundays for law school.

 

[Michigan Dave]

Notre Dame has landed top classes for two consecutive years and is on the verge of landing the biggest yet. Unless the teams you mentioned are going to have 8th year seniors, they'll have just as many top classes playing as the Irish will.

I'm not trying to imply that in 2009 the Irish will be an elite team and will stay that way from then on, just that this team on paper looks like it will be equipped to make a run at it. After that, who knows? Again, I'm not saying that they'll be officially "back for good" then.

Sorry- I'm off on years. I keep thinking that this current group of HS seniors is 09 when they are 08. I don't know if ND will ever be "back for good" to be honest. I'm not an Irish hater by any means. This is a big year to see how much of a difference their coaching makes. Realistically, it should be pretty lean. If they make a run, or even finish with a winning record, it's a good sign for the future.

 

[Brady to Brown]

I never entered the business. I wasn't able to play anymore and was a student coach for QBs at UM. After I graduated, I was offered a GA gig at ND and MSU. I debated, but turned it down. For a couple of reasons. **** pay and hours; I was getting married the following year and my wife had another year at UM; and I didn't really want to recruit against UM. I'm too big a fan. I applied for and was offered an Asst. Director of Player Development role with the Lions, but felt that the Millen regime was unstable (this was in 2002. Ha!) and I hate that team. I thought long and hard. The money wasn't that good, and I realized that I really just love the game too much. I didn't want to not be able to go to all 12 Michigan games, and didn't want to have to give up my allegiance to the Pats. Instead, I work a couple of games a year in the visitors room at Ford Field. I catch punts on the field for the punters in pregame, watch from the sideline, and hang out in the room pre and postgame. That gives me my football fix. This year I'm out though, since I'll have some classes on Sundays for law school.

The Lions gig was a trap Good call.

I like Quinn, maybe I am wrong though.

 

[QuiGon]

Oh, I'm not saying that they aren't going to have talent then. But keep in mind, the teams they are competing with- USC, Michigan, OSU...we already have talent upon talent. These top 5 classes are nothing new to us. ND has a ways to go before they are on our level.

People always give ND crap because, supposedly, ND's fans think they are so great when really they are just mediocre... And yet the above is an example of a school who's fans are even more arrogant than Notre Dame's, the University of Michigan. They think they're God's gift to college football but have won what..? 1 National Championship since the Truman adminstration..?

 

[Real World]

It is preseason. Means nothing.

Haven't you heard? The Pats lost the first preseason game and someone was yelling that the season was over. Since they've lost another and quite frankly, I'm worried for that individuals safety.

Now, back to reality. Sweeler, you're 100% right.

 

[Michigan Dave]

People always give ND crap because, supposedly, ND's fans think they are so great when really they are just mediocre... And yet the above is an example of a school who's fans are even more arrogant than Notre Dame's, the University of Michigan. They think they're God's gift to college football but have won what..? 1 National Championship since the Truman adminstration..?

Michigan is the winningest program in college history. It's also not because of early century success, either. You can take any 5 or 10 year interval from now back, and see Michigan in the top 10. That's impressive. We have the longest active bowl streak, most conference titles of any school, etc. National titles are great. However, they also are arbitrary. There is no playoff.

Are we arrogant? Sure. But no more arrogant than ND, USC, OSU, or any other top schools. What specifically did I say that was so arrogant? I don't think that Michigan is God's gift to football at all. We're a top 5 program along with some other great schools, for sure.

Here is some interesting data showing undefeated seasons for the top 9 teams since 1995:

Ohio State - 1 (missed one bowl game)
Florida - 0 (three five loss seasons)
FSU - 1 (three seasons with five or more losses)
Tennessess - 1 (Missed a bowl game in 2005)
Va Tech - 0 (two five loss seasons playing in the minor leagues)
Texas - 1 (lost seven games in 1997)
Nebraska - 2 (lost seven games in 2002, missed a bowl in 2004)
Miami - 1 (two six loss seasons)
Michigan - 1 (worst season was single five loss season)

And here is Michigan's place in winning percentage over these intervals:

Last 10 years: Michigan #4
Last 15 years: Michigan #7
Last 20 years: Michigan #4
Last 25 years: Michigan #4
Last 30 years: Michigan #4
Last 35 years: Michigan #2
Last 40 years: Michigan #2
Last 45 years: Michigan #3
Last 50 years: Michigan #6
Last 55 years: Michigan #6
Last 60 years: Michigan #5
Last 65 years: Michigan #5
Last 70 years: Michigan #4
Last 75 years: Michigan #3
Last 80 years: Michigan #3
Last 85 years: Michigan #1
Last 90 years: Michigan #3
Last 95 years: Michigan #3
Last 100 years: Michigan #2
Last 105 years: Michigan #2
Last 110 years: Michigan #1
Last 115 years: Michigan #1


Please elaborate on what, exactly I've said to make my statements come across as arrogant. I speak mainly of Michigan in regards to college football because it is the system I know.

 

[Double G]

Michigan is Gods' gift to college football and it looks like Dave just proved it.

Nice job, tough to argue that track record.

 

[Deus Irae]

Michigan is Gods' gift to college football and it looks like Dave just proved it.

Nice job, tough to argue that track record.

The Big 10 has been a weak conference for a while now. That makes the winning percentage much less impressive. Put Michigan in the SEC over the past 10 years and the record would likely have been nowhere near as strong.

 

[Warren94]

nice work dave. wish the pats drafted woodley.

 

[Double G]

Weak arguement because it all evens out, the SEC has had their share of sucking too..................

 

[Deus Irae]

Weak arguement because it all evens out, the SEC has had their share of sucking too..................

Feel free to check back over the past 10 years, which is what was being discussed.

 

[Michigan Dave]

The Big 10 has been a weak conference for a while now. That makes the winning percentage much less impressive. Put Michigan in the SEC over the past 10 years and the record would likely have been nowhere near as strong.

Not true. The BigTen was 2-1 against the SEC in bowls last year (though the 1 was pretty big- granted I was pulling for the SEC team...) In the Lloyd Carr era, Michigan is 5-2 against SEC teams. I will agree that top to bottom the SEC is the best conference, however the top teams in each matchup well against each other. I would put Michigan and Ohio State right there with Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, LSU and Auburn any day. Wisconsin would be just below those teams. The SEC has a second tier I would consider Arkansas and Alabama to be in. Penn State and Iowa are comparable. The bottom tier of Vandy, Kentucky, Ole Miss and Mississippi State are comparable to Minnesota, Purdue, Illinois, Indiana, and Northwestern.

I love the "BigTen is slow and bad" myth, but it won't fly with me. The SEC has better depth, but the BigTen is just as competitive as any conference out there. If you take the records for the last 10 years, Ohio State is #2 in the nation at 97-28. Michigan is #4 at 96-28. Georgia checks in at #6 96-30, Florida and Tennessee tie at #9 with 94-32 records. Wisconsin is at #15 89-38, LSU is #17 at 86-38 and Auburn #19 at 84-40. How many more losses would Michigan or Ohio State have playing in the SEC? The BigTen is 13-13 against the SEC head-to-head in bowls over that time, so I'd venture to guess the statistics would be comparable to where they are now. Even if Michigan or OSU would've dropped an additional game or two over that span, it's also realistic to assume that a team coming up to Ohio Stadium or Michigan Stadium would also falter, evening out the stats.

The bottom line is that college football's powers- your Floridas, Ohio States, Michigans, Tennessees, etc. are strong regardless of opponent and conference. Trying to write off teams in major conferences is silly. The PAC-10 is not as strong as the BigTen or SEC, but USC can hang with anyone in the nation. The Big XII is also weaker than the aforementioned conferences, but Texas and OU are top 10 squads.

 

[Michigan Dave]

Feel free to check back over the past 10 years, which is what was being discussed.

Done. Please see above.

 

[Deus Irae]

Done. Please see above.

Florida vs. Ohio State last season pretty much blows that argument out of the water.


Darn it.... most of this post was lost. Well, I'm not hunting down the rest. You feel free to equate the two conferences all you want.